Thread Tools
Old December 29, 2003, 20:10   #31
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
Jam: What?
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old December 29, 2003, 21:36   #32
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
See Maniac?
Quote:
Jam: What?
Yes, it's indeed a disgrace what Drogue is writing!
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old December 29, 2003, 21:37   #33
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
Yes "Drogue" is very naughty

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 09:27   #34
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
What I meant was, was the "See Maniac?" meant for me, asking to me look at Maniac's post, or was it for Maniac, telling him to look at my position
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 10:00   #35
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
It was "See, Maniac", an imperitive directed to Maniac that he should see. Obviously

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 10:22   #36
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
The only consistant things are either having a total ban or having the option of joining the conquering faction, who capture their bases and so capture their population. Quota's were a compromise, but one that isn't particularly realistic. It can understand the argument that we aren't flush for players, but we have enough, IMHO. That is why I think either a total ban, as per defections, or joining the conqueror.
I completely agree with Drogue's position.

And I disagree with Voltaire's. IMHO it should not be allowed for one member to tell important gameplay information to another faction without general consent in the member's own faction that it is allowed. Though this would of course give a new and very interesting perspective to the political and diplomatic side of the game, the current format does not make this workable IMHO. Why? Because, since every member has access to the turn, everyone can see all information; and because all plans are openly discussed in the private forum (at least in the CyCon). Unlike in real-life political situations, it is almost impossible to hide any important information from possible infiltrators and spies. So this ACDG can only work decently if the members of a faction can trust each other and don't have to be on their guard all the time that one of them could tell something important to a rival faction.

I would actually like a game very much where you can have factions within factions, and can hide information from other members in your faction, as that would allow for some very fun political roleplaying. But unless we can somehow arrange that, individual members telling confidential info to other factions is a big

Quote:
Allowing players to join other teams also allow them to setup a government-in-exile in a friendly state
What would be the point of that? If a human faction is eliminated, it can never be revived anyway.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 11:28   #37
Snowflake
ACDG3 SpartansACDG The Human HiveACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 GaiansACDG3 MorganACDG3 CMNs
Princess
 
Snowflake's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: falling, once again
Posts: 8,823
Who knows, may be one faction could give that faction a base?
__________________
Be good, and if at first you don't succeed, perhaps failure will be back in fashion soon. -- teh Spamski

Grapefruit Garden
Snowflake is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:14   #38
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
We're playing Alien Crossfire, aren't we? Have you forgotten the ability of a probe team to free captured faction leaders?
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:22   #39
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
Then they cannot join another faction, or they would not be allowed to defect back. They are still members of their faction until the end of the game, because their faction may rise again?
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:23   #40
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
Does this work in PBEM? Can someone confirm it? If this is the case, all eliminated factions will be put on ice.

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:25   #41
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
Originally posted by Drogue
Then they cannot join another faction, or they would not be allowed to defect back. They are still members of their faction until the end of the game, because their faction may rise again?
They'd be pretty entwined with the faction that freed them, but I'd say that's as it should be; after all, when an AI is freed, it swears a Pact to serve whoever freed it.
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:30   #42
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
Who knows, may be one faction could give that faction a base?
Then that faction still lives, and there's no need to make them member of a new faction.

Quote:
We're playing Alien Crossfire, aren't we? Have you forgotten the ability of a probe team to free captured faction leaders?
Nope. It's just that if a human faction is destroyed the normal way by another faction, the game doesn't work anymore or so. The solution to that is that a faction must obliterate their last base themselves. But then of course, that faction wasn't destroyed by its conqueror and the leader cannot be freed.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:31   #43
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
Ah.... that's a shame, I didn't think of that.

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old December 30, 2003, 21:31   #44
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
Quote:
Originally posted by Maniac

Nope. It's just that if a human faction is destroyed the normal way by another faction, the game doesn't work anymore or so. The solution to that is that a faction must obliterate their last base themselves. But then of course, that faction wasn't destroyed by its conqueror and the leader cannot be freed.
Oh, I see. I didn't know that.
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old December 31, 2003, 02:19   #45
Snowflake
ACDG3 SpartansACDG The Human HiveACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 GaiansACDG3 MorganACDG3 CMNs
Princess
 
Snowflake's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: falling, once again
Posts: 8,823
How about we don't ask them to obliterate the last base, and make it a prison or something, so they are still a team, but they need to sware a pact to the conquering team?
__________________
Be good, and if at first you don't succeed, perhaps failure will be back in fashion soon. -- teh Spamski

Grapefruit Garden
Snowflake is offline  
Old December 31, 2003, 02:34   #46
Octavian X
Civilization III Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Human HivePtWDG Gathering StormPtWDG2 Monty PythonC4WDG Huygen's UnionC3CDG The Lost BoysC4DG The Mercenary TeamCiv4 SP Democracy GameACDG3 GaiansC3C IDG: Apolyton Team
King
 
Octavian X's Avatar
 
Local Time: 09:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,337
This issue has come up before in the Civ3 PTW Multi Site Team Democracy Game. At this point, three teams have been eliminated from the game entirely.

The solution reached was that players from destroyed civs would be allowed to join any other team they pleased, no questions asked. This is the most simple, and in my humble opinion, best option. No matter what, you're going to get some old information from the team spread around a bit from refugees. Why fight it?
__________________
Join a Democracy Game today!
| APO: Civ4 - Civ4 Multi-Team - Civ4 Warlords Multi-Team - SMAC | CFC: Civ4 DG2 - Civ4 Multi-Team - Civ3 Multi-Team 2 | Civ3 ISDG - Civ4 ISDG |
Octavian X is offline  
Old December 31, 2003, 08:24   #47
Jamski
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Deity
 
Jamski's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
Sensible, and tested.

-Jam
__________________
1) The crappy metaspam is an affront to the true manner of the artform. - Dauphin
That's like trying to overninja a ninja when you aren't a mammal. CAN'T BE DONE. - Kassi on doublecrossing Ljube-ljcvetko
Check out the ALL NEW Galactic Overlord Website for v2.0 and the Napoleonic Overlord Website or even the Galactic Captians Website Thanks Geocities!
Taht 'ventisular link be woo to clyck.
Jamski is offline  
Old December 31, 2003, 12:03   #48
Hercules
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 SpartansACDG3 GaiansC4DG VoxC4WDG éirich tuireannC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansBtS Tri-LeagueC4BtSDG TemplarsACDG PeaceACDG3 Data Angels
Deity
 
Hercules's Avatar
 
Local Time: 16:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On a Board Walk
Posts: 11,565
OctavianX

Quote:
The solution reached was that players from destroyed civs would be allowed to join any other team they
pleased, no questions asked. This is the most simple, and in my humble opinion, best option. No matter what,
you're going to get some old information from the team spread around a bit from refugees. Why fight it?
99 posts later.

We the pirates be happy to take any human refuges.

After all what are the Pirates anyway but a bunch of foul %36&* mouthed scroundrels gathering of decent people who escaped from the intolerance and authoritarianism of class ridden nations.

Yeah we'd welcome any full human refugees, if they can sing shanties and pass our cursing test.
__________________
"Four things come not back: the spoken word, the sped arrow, the past life and the neglected opportunity."
Hercules is offline  
Old January 4, 2004, 18:22   #49
Main_Brain
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG The Free Drones
King
 
Main_Brain's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Tyskland
Posts: 1,952
Arr Darn! Shanties? I'll never pass that one! arrgghh
__________________
Stopped waiting for Duke Nukem
Main_Brain is offline  
Old January 4, 2004, 20:39   #50
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
I'll go with it, since most people seem to agree, but think ti could unbalance things, since the losing faction will try to skew all the other factions againsty their captors, in a way that wouldn't if they weren't accepted.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 04:37   #51
GeneralTacticus
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameAlpha Centauri PBEMPtWDG RoleplayNationStatesInterSite Democracy Game: Apolyton TeamCivilization III PBEMApolyton Storywriters' GuildACDG3 Spartans
Emperor
 
GeneralTacticus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 02:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: of Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 6,851
What do you think would happen IRL? The governing elite of the defeated party would flee to whoever accepted them, and would then begin agitating for the recapture of their country so they could have it back. After all, look at Cuba.
GeneralTacticus is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 15:23   #52
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
Have it back? They would still be members of the new faction.

For example, say the CyCon defeat PEACE, and PEACE members all flock to the Hive (their pactmates who are open to new players). The Hive may be peaceful and have good intentions to us before that, but due to PEACE's grudge against us for the war, their position will be more anti-CyCon than it otherwise would be. If enough of them moved, we may find ourselves in a situtation where other factions attack us, not because their current members want to, but because of the grudge PEACE have against us.

Add to that the knowledge that they will gain. Use the above example, the Hive would have PEACEs old maps, they would be able to launch an attack far more accuratly because of that, while we would not have their map. The Hive would gain information and maps from PEACE that they would otherwise not have, which combined with them being against more due to the ex-PEACE members influence, is a nasty combination.

If the other factions dislike our actions towards PEACE and wish to take action, that is obviously their right, and was a risk with the war. However if PEACE members join, that will be a far far more extreme reaction, since PEACE (naturally) would hold a grudge against their victors.

In RL, most of them would not be able to escape to join any faction of their choosing, especially without maps of other factions.

Suppose this happens: The CyCon take all but the last PEACE base and leave them with it. Because of defections, they cannot join another faction, but will likely play little more part in the game. Game rules are that to defeat a faction, they have to destroy their last base. Suppose they were to do that, and we were to say that we did not intend to attack/capture it? They have no faction, but have not been defeated, since we were trying not to defeat them. Would they be allowed to join another faction? This ruling would give them an incentive to destroy their last base, even though we wanted not to attack it, since they then get to join a stronger faction. It also gives the attackers an incentive to leave them with one base, so that other factions are not skewed against them.

IMHO, changing faction skews the game, whether it's before or after a faction is defeated. I would like the same ruling to apply to both. Either defections are allowed, or post-mortem defections are banned. That's my personal opinion.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 19:07   #53
Kody
ACDG The Human HiveACDG3 Data AngelsACDG3 GaiansACDG3 MorganACDG3 SpartansACDG3 CMNs
Emperor
 
Local Time: 01:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Purpose drives life
Posts: 3,347
The problem with allowing defections is you may end up with the defector sabotaging his original faction. Whereas people choosing a new faction after they have lost theirs cannot sabotage their faction which is already destoried. The effect on a third faction, in the case of new team choosing, while likely has not the same magnitude of effect as a real defection has on its current team.

Consequently, defections should be viewed as a completely seperate issue to defeated faction members choosing a new team. The issues can not be grouped together.
Kody is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 19:08   #54
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
The Hive can conquer planet without being told to do so by a bunch of Xenorun-swilling potty mouths.

Hey I have an idea....
How about defeated people start stuffing up contributing to that ACPSG we have going?
Enigma_Nova is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 19:50   #55
jtsisyoda
ACDG The Free DronesAlpha Centauri PBEMAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 Morgan
King
 
jtsisyoda's Avatar
 
Local Time: 10:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: COO, Morgan Industries, ACDG3
Posts: 1,636
I understand where Drogue is coming from, but... I think the people are what make the game fun, and are the most valuable resource (only resource, really). It would be a shame to lose anyone. Worries about one or two active refugees swaying an entire faction... that's really a sad comment on the inactivity of that faction. If a team has that little "will" to generally hold its course with new members, it was at serious risk of collapse anyway (which I'm pretty sure no one wants). In other words, refugees might save the game.

I agree with Kody's point that there is a big difference between refugees and defectors.

Regarding the timing of this thread... IMHO CyCon should've asked for the question to be settled before going to war-- their decision was based on incomplete information, which is something they'll have to live with. If war hurts them more than they expected... tough.

Also, an argument could be made that two warring factions are biased in this discussion and should recuse themselves? (Just a thought... don't take that part too seriously.)
__________________
"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's? Pay no attention to Caesar. He doesn't have a clue what's really going on." -Cat's Cradle

Last edited by jtsisyoda; January 5, 2004 at 20:00.
jtsisyoda is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 21:33   #56
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
Quote:
Originally posted by jtsisyoda
Worries about one or two active refugees swaying an entire faction... that's really a sad comment on the inactivity of that faction. If a team has that little "will" to generally hold its course with new members, it was at serious risk of collapse anyway (which I'm pretty sure no one wants). In other words, refugees might save the game.
Considering the CyCon is run almost entirely by 4 people (Myself, Maniac, Impaler and (to a lesser extent - he is not an official) Lauri) 2 people coming in would swing it greatly. I don't know how other factions are.

Quote:
Regarding the timing of this thread... IMHO CyCon should've asked for the question to be settled before going to war-- their decision was based on incomplete information, which is something they'll have to live with. If war hurts them more than they expected... tough.
I have to say, I presumed it would be like defectors, since the effect of both is largely on a 3rd party faction, IMHO. I had no inkling it would be a different rule at all. I didn't know there was a question to ask.

Also, no-one has answered my questions about destroying the last base. Could we leave their last base so they cannot join another faction? Could a faction decide to destroy all it's bases and join another faction? Are other factions allowed to access the save files of the old faction?
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Drogue is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 22:17   #57
Maniac
Alpha Centauri Democracy GameC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansACDG The Cybernetic ConsciousnessACDG Planet University of TechnologyPolyCast TeamACDG3 Spartans
 
Maniac's Avatar
 
Local Time: 17:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
Quote:
Originally posted by Drogue
Could a faction decide to destroy all it's bases and join another faction?
Well if a faction voluntarily obliterates its bases and all its inhabitants out of its free will, they can hardly claim they're still alive enough to join another faction.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
Maniac is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 22:29   #58
Drogue
staff
Alpha Centauri PBEMNationStatesACDG Planet University of TechnologyACDG3 GaiansACDG The Human HiveACDG PeaceACDG3 SpartansACDG3 MorganACDG3 Data AngelsPolyCast TeamC4DG Team Alpha CentauriansCiv4 SP Democracy GameAlpha Centauri Democracy GameACDG3 CMNsACDG The Cybernetic Consciousness
Apolyton Knight (Off-Topic Co-Moderator)
 
Drogue's Avatar
 
Local Time: 15:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
Exactly. But they have to obliterate their last base. If we don't want to take it, can they destroy it, as it's their last base, and join another faction? I say no, since they have destroyed it themselves. I think the conquering faction should have to ask for them to destroy it, or ask Googlie, and give him their plans, and then if Googlie thinks the base will go that turn, they have to destroy it. Else they could simply destroy it early and move faction, when it may not be taken, or they could claim it won't be taken and not destroy it, meaning we all lose a turn after them IIRC.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something

"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker

Last edited by Drogue; January 5, 2004 at 22:39.
Drogue is offline  
Old January 5, 2004, 22:43   #59
foolish_icarus
ACDG PeaceACDG3 Data AngelsNever Ending Stories
King
 
foolish_icarus's Avatar
 
Local Time: 08:07
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Too close to the sea
Posts: 1,827
Quote:
Originally posted by Drogue
I think the conquering faction should have to ask for them to destroy it, or ask Googlie, and give him their plans, and then if Googlie thinks the base will go that turn, they have to destroy it. Else they could simply destroy it early and move faction, when it may not be taken, or they could claim it won't be taken and not destroy it, meaning we all lose a turn after them IIRC.
I agree with the rest of your post, but what does this mean?
__________________
Those walls are absent of glory as they always have been. The people of tents will inherit this land.
foolish_icarus is offline  
Old January 6, 2004, 10:43   #60
Enigma_Nova
C4DG The Mercenary Team
Emperor
 
Enigma_Nova's Avatar
 
Local Time: 01:07
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
Quote:
Originally posted by Drogue

Considering the CyCon is run almost entirely by 4 people (Myself, Maniac, Impaler and (to a lesser extent - he is not an official) Lauri) 2 people coming in would swing it greatly. I don't know how other factions are.
The Hive has 'bout 8 active members
Enigma_Nova is offline  
 

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:07.


Design by Vjacheslav Trushkin, color scheme by ColorizeIt!.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Apolyton Civilization Site | Copyright © The Apolyton Team