Dope: Should it be legalised.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Sava
wrongo... that report had nothing to do with addiction... you should learn to read speery pie

Skywalker... do you know what a chemical addiction is? Because judging by your posts, you do not. A "chemical addiction" is when your body becomes physically dependent on a substance (i.e. withdrawl when you don't get it). Withdrawl has very specific and pronounced symptons. I know because I've been on medications before that ARE chemically dependent. Marijuana is not chemically dependent. The medical community doesn't think so, no scientist thinks so... only drug warriors who are uninformed think so. As a user of marijuana I can testify to the FACT that marijuana is NOT CHEMICALLY ADDICTIVE. I've smoked marijuana daily for a month, then stopped cold turkey... and NOTHING.

In fact, marijuana is described as "anti-addictive" meaning... IT HELPS PEOPLE SUFFERING FROM WITHDRAWL FROM OTHER SUBSTANCES.

The only problem here is we are using different definitions. It is addictive; it does not cause withdrawal syndromes (or at least I'll take your word for it).

[Wernazuma III]

Originally posted by Albert Speer
I dont get this... Sava says weed is not chemically addictive based on a 1937 AMA report... a 66 year old report... sava, go back a few more years and you'll expose the truth that the negro has a small brain which is why he is less intelligent than whites.

Good one, Albert!

[Sava]

It is addictive

it is not PHYSICALLY addictive...

as I said before, it is addictive in the sense that pleasant experiences in life are wroth repeating... the "addiction" you speak of is no different than eating your favorite foods, watching your favorite TV shows or movies, drinking your favorite beverages (but less addictive than caffeine and alcohol), or coming to 'Poly.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Wernazuma III
Good one, Albert!

what's "good" about that? that speer didn't read the post and misquoted me? or the fact that he didn't read the link and said the 66 year old report was about something that it isn't...

and about what I said to orange... I wasn't pressuring him into using pot or saying he should. I was trying to alleviate any concerns he may have had about using it. If he doesn't want to.... that's fine... it's his body. But it's a good experience and I only wanted to suggest he partake in it.

[Kuciwalker]

It IS physically addictive, and I've explained twice in this thread how. It readjusts you mind at the most basic level as to accustom you to the drug. It just doesn't have withdrawal syndromes. Withdrawal and addiction are related by seperate.

(btw, Poly is probably addictive in every possible way, and worse than heroin )

[Theben]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


I don't think so, a quarter is a quarter of an ounce, and thats 7.5 grams.

Trust me, I've bought many...

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you mean...

D'oh! I was thinking pounds for some reason, and messed up my conversion tables. 1 oz.=28 grams, not 2.8.

Sava,
I once bought an ounce of hydroponic, for around $150(?) That stuff was sweet. Ah, the good old days.

[Ted Striker]

stop trying to justify your pot habits people

it is addictive

and very bad for you

cut it out


or i'll kick all your azzes

[Theben]

Ted, just say, "I'd hit it," and go wander off somewhere.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Sava
Canada is much more lax about enforcement though...

True. People light up right in front of the cops and they don't give a ****. You'll even see people blazing right in front of the Parliament buildings, its kind of funny actually.

Marc Emery, Canada's "Prince of Pot" in front of Charlottetown Police HQ.

Before:



After:

[oedo]

staying away from drugs is always a good thing.
but I´m amazed how people, who never had ANY experience with THC can state any judgement about it. it´s much like a blind man talking about colours.

concerning me, I once started smoking pot and I spent a long and excessive time with pot. some years later I just ceased from one day to another. I had no problem with finishing. I felt no pain and I didn´t miss it at all.
and even more, I believe smoking pot was a good experience I wouldn´t want to miss.

[Kuciwalker]

oedo - I never stated about how bad it was or anything. I made statements based on what I've learned in my neurobio class, which you must admit is probably a good source of information on - you guessed it - neurobiology

[Theben]

Don't you usually haunt the civ2 forums, oedo? What brings you to the OT?

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Peter Triggs
@ Dr Strangelove. Is this an isolated opinion or is the link between cannabis and schizophrenia becoming more established? I've come across several articles about it over the past two or three years.

Yes it is pretty well known, but real medical data doesn't get anywhere near as well publicised as stuff put out by organized crime...errr, I mean, groups devoted to the legalization of drugs.

[Dr Strangelove]

If we legalise drugs won't tens of thousands of "gangstas" have to find some other way of making as much money as possible with the least amount of effort? My guess is that this would mean their shifting to other illegal endeavors like armed robbery, car theft, carjacking, prostitution and extortion.

By the way, can anyone give me the definition of "a lid"?

[oedo]

Originally posted by Theben
Don't you usually haunt the civ2 forums, oedo? What brings you to the OT?

I occasionally post here. I think it´s for about one year now. no idea what was the first OT- thread I posted in. most probably something left-wing against right-wing.

skywalker: I also learned about drugs at school. probably everybody did. the school´s intention is keeping kids away from drugs, which is generally ok. later, however, I found out that my teachers and my schoolbooks were extremely overdoing when it came to the the medical risks and the addictivness of THC. this was my experience.
see, if a teacher wants, he can even say things about oxygen which make you want to stop breathing immediately. he doesn´t even have to lie. oxygen is a poison.

I don´t want to recommend you to try pot. you won´t miss anything, if you stay away from it. but if you want to know more about it, you should at least seek some other sources, like books of people, who have experienced pot. school is only one source and it´s in the nature that school is a biased source.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
If we legalise drugs won't tens of thousands of "gangstas" have to find some other way of making as much money as possible with the least amount of effort? My guess is that this would mean their shifting to other illegal endeavors like armed robbery, car theft, carjacking, prostitution and extortion.

By the way, can anyone give me the definition of "a lid"?

Well, since alot of these guys sell other stuff too like crack and coke, I'm sure it won't be too big of a deal for them.

And, "a lid" in what context?

[Dr Strangelove]

Hey! I've got a really crazy idea! Why don't we leave the process of determination whether marijuana has medical benefits up to the medical community? After all, the process works great 90% of the time. Drugs that have real utility get approved eventually, yet only a few of them have to be pulled from the market every year. What a great idea!

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
And, "a lid" in what context?

A "lid" of marijuana of course, or has that unit of measurement gone out of usage?

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

A "lid" of marijuana of course, or has that unit of measurement gone out of usage?

Um, I'm not familiar with it, but that doesn't mean anything...

[Evil Knevil]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Hey! I've got a really crazy idea! Why don't we leave the process of determination whether marijuana has medical benefits up to the medical community? After all, the process works great 90% of the time. Drugs that have real utility get approved eventually, yet only a few of them have to be pulled from the market every year. What a great idea!

True. I blame your Federal Government for interfering with research (raids anyone?) and for funding anti-weed studies(negative health effects of so and so) to the detriment of straightforward clinical trials. Still let the science men do their studies, its the only thing that can be done.

Mind you some fools did try clinical trials with LSD

ps. I understand you're against recreational use.

[Az]

what a stoner!

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Sava
because of prohibition, drug prices are higher, and organized crime can make more money off of it...

but those prices I quoted are for TOP OF THE LINE buds... I only smoke really good ****.

*looks at Sava's avatar*

But... see what it does to your face!?! Your face, man, YOUR FACE!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Sava
you better be, he's ****ing bad ass

Yep, especially since he'll be playing Sirius Black in Harry Potter 3 .

Anyway, who voted 'No, I'm a pot smoker'? A drug dealer?

[Ramo]

God, you're ignorant. CHEMICAL ADDICTION = PHYSICAL ADDICTION = PHYSIOLOGICAL ADDICTION.

I was under the impression that the phrase chemical addiction (which is a rarely used term) is equivalent to psychological addiction.

But anyways, there is insignificant physical addiction associated with weed. Heavy use may create psychological depencies, yes, but won't create significant physical dependencies (i.e. causing withdrawal symptoms and the like). Basically, after a heavy dose of THC, stopping use would only provoke a gradual removal of THC from cannabinoid receptors due to their relatively lengthy half-lives, leading to minimal physical withdrawal effects.

[Ramo]

the drug legalization camp is made up entirely of upper middle class white college students

Lower class brown person here.

[Tiamat]

As one who smoked pot for a number of years I can say that your argument about pot smokers not leading productive lives or being able to handle jobs isn't true from my stand point. I held down two jobs while smoking pot, however, I have quit and been away from it for almost a year now and can honestly say that I like myself better when I don't smoke then when I do. I'm not quite so lathargic, don't get the munchies so much , and don't feel so run down all the time.

As to whether it's legalised, I think the government doesn't have the right to choose for us. It's our choice what we put in our bodies and obviously since it's not legal and people still choose to do it they really haven't won anything. Besides wasn't the father of our country George Washington and Thomas Jefferson and Ben Franklin all hemp farmers?

[Berzerker]

Strangelove -

If we legalise drugs won't tens of thousands of "gangstas" have to find some other way of making as much money as possible with the least amount of effort? My guess is that this would mean their shifting to other illegal endeavors like armed robbery, car theft, carjacking, prostitution and extortion.

Interesting hypothesis, pot should remain illegal so fewer people will resort to other crimes to make money? Then wouldn't it make sense to be very relaxed about enforcing the pot laws since strict punishment and harsh penalties will only drive some of these gangsters back to other criminal endeavors?

According to your argument, homicide rates should have increased after alcohol prohibition was repealed since all those gangsters involved in the illicit alcohol market would have had to find other more dangerous and illegal ways to make money. That didn't happen, the homicide rate dropped 13 years in a row to about half the rate under alcohol prohibition and didn't go back up to prohibition levels until the modern drug war when, based on your argument, crime should have decreased as more criminals went back to drug dealing.

Hey! I've got a really crazy idea! Why don't we leave the process of determination whether marijuana has medical benefits up to the medical community? After all, the process works great 90% of the time.

You mean the people who have to ask me "where does it hurt" are more qualified than me to know if it hurts? I have a better idea, let's ask the people using the pot if it affords them relief, but the American Medical Association opposed the ban on pot back in 1937 and you simply ignored that fact the last time this issue was debated.

Drugs that have real utility get approved eventually, yet only a few of them have to be pulled from the market every year. What a great idea!

Too bad it doesn't work that way, pot has ~5,000 years of proven utility and the politicians ignore that fact to keep it illegal. Tell us, Doc, does pot have medicinal properties (real utility)? Just a simple yes or no answer will do here...

[Berzerker]

That guy looks like Joe Scarborough

[Flip McWho]

The funny thing is that I pretty much fit into that category too

Same

Flip, whats the bud like in NZ?

Eh, it ain't too bad a. Can be a bit costly though. Ummm working in tinnies which is god knows how much in gramage its $20NZD - About $5 for a joint if that helps any. We gotta be careful too as the sh*t is all priced the same so we don't know if we are getting good sh*t or not till we use it. I think its around $100 for a pound. Never buy that high.

Flip, didn't you read my post?

Hmmmm mustn't off

Ted, just say, "I'd hit it," and go wander off somewhere.

Interesting hypothesis, pot should remain illegal so fewer people will resort to other crimes to make money? Then wouldn't it make sense to be very relaxed about enforcing the pot laws since strict punishment and harsh penalties will only drive some of these gangsters back to other criminal endeavors? According to your argument, homicide rates should have increased after alcohol prohibition was repealed since all those gangsters involved in the illicit alcohol market would have had to find other more dangerous and illegal ways to make money. That didn't happen, the homicide rate dropped 13 years in a row to about half the rate under alcohol prohibition and didn't go back up to prohibition levels until the modern drug war when, based on your argument, crime should have decreased as more criminals went back to drug dealing.

Thanks for that Berzerker, this is one of the main arguments that the people I've been arguing with use.

[Firelad]

In Israel 50 grams of (supposedly) good quality "vegetables" (local term) costs around 200NIS which is a bit more $40US. The prices hardly vary at all with the quality though. The most common thing is to buy 25 grams for 100NIS ($20US). Dunno about hashish. I smoked hashish once, a guy me and my friends met on the street gave it to us for free when we couldn't find and source. Said friends said it was really good. I agree, although I had no idea it was so strong and I have therefore made an utter fool of myself.
I never had munchies. On the other hand, I'm not very "experienced"... (info on quality comes from stoner friends). Hey, I smoked only two times (quite recently... Just starting out ) and I had the very same effects. Meaning both times I thought I was able to predict the future (I though that someone was going to say something and after a few seconds/minutes he said it. Weird. The rest of the time it was just deja-vus on everything.)

LEGALISE I don't have money to buy at those black market rates! Plus I think it's better for all. No new reasons to add though.