Do we need to restore courage to barbs?

vmxa1 · December 27, 2003, 04:33

I am wondering if it maybe time to buck these puppies up a bit.
I sent an army of crusaders (4x) to attack a city. The city was size 2 and had three unit (warrior/archer/spear). I got close and saw next to the city 9 horsemen barbs and 2 warriors. These brave souls sit there why the AI was sending its archer out to hit them.

They finally decided to send the last 10 at my army, that was on a hill. Can you say doom? Then I took the city. BTW no promotions for killing all 10 barbs and three Sumerians, I had the Epic.

In the previous game I had a similar stack sit next to my city (size 2 or 3) and I had two AC's in it. They never attacked, while I send a few more units over to take them out piece meal.

I am seeing more and more of this behavior. I know they want to make the barbs stop killing themself, but this is silly.

Flip McWho · December 27, 2003, 06:18

Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.

CerberusIV · December 27, 2003, 12:07

I just played a game as the Sumerians. At the far end of my continent an Enkidu discovered a barb camp with around fifteen barb horsemen sitting in it. I moved onto an adjacent mountain and then attacked. Every time I took damage I fortified the Enkidu until he healed then attacked again. My unit went through about half the stack before dying. A bit pointless really.

Barbs do need to be more aggressive.

ChrisiusMaximus · December 27, 2003, 12:37

Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?

Paddy · December 27, 2003, 13:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Yeah i've noticed that too. When you pop them from goodie huts only one attacks you then the rest fortify.

They do need beefing up again don't they. I mean now they don't even inspire fear into anyone.

Yes, I agree, they do need some work.
It is pointless having scared barbarians in a game.

vmxa1 · December 27, 2003, 15:03

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisiusMaximus
Is their any difference if you increase the barb settings?

Not sure as I always use roaming. Even though fane7 gave us the road map to leaders with raging

MrWhereItsAt · December 28, 2003, 02:46

Playing on Raging, it is almost as bad. I am encountering (on Monarch) bands of 6-7 Barbs in a camp that stay there, even with undefended cities/workers nearby. If I accidentally misclick and move a worker next to them they attack, but if I move a warrior or archer there they only attack after a turn or two of nothing. I have seen this several times, so it seems they must wait a certain period before attacking.

Strange, yes? OTOH there DOES seem to perhaps be a greater incidence of barbs (several turning up all at once in the one hut).

vmxa1 · December 28, 2003, 02:50

I do feel that the huts are more inclinded to pop barbs. It seems very hard to get any tech for me as an non-expansionist civ.

There was a time where the barbs would sneak around to do some pillaging, but even that now rare, just fort up.

Flip McWho · December 28, 2003, 03:35

Yeah I agree. Goodie huts are no longer really goodie. They almost always give barbs.

Maybe we've seen the beginning of the new pacifistic barbarian. Nothing like peaceful warriors striking fear into the innocent.

ducki · December 28, 2003, 09:32

Sounds like another nice PtW feature that somehow missed the C3C branch on the code tree.

I've also noticed the extra wimpiness of barbs with Conquests. No pillaging, no attacking "easy" targets, just lame elite-generators.

Makahlua · December 28, 2003, 10:34

Yeah like the stack of 10 pikemen that kept bouncing in and out of the border of one of my cites in the Mesoamerica conquest yesterday

#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.

#2, those chickens could've taken my lone spear easily but just kept bouncing back on and off the mountain by the city - a prime attack point no less!

Kuciwalker · December 28, 2003, 13:58

They should make the basic barb a Gallic Swordsman and the advanced the Keshik

Quote:

#1, how did a camp generate -pikeman- ? Maybe I just usually don't have any camps left when me/the AI gets to new eras.

It was probably a special scenario feature... in the epic game they don't do that.

vmxa1 · December 28, 2003, 14:47

In the General Settign on the editor you can set the barbs to any unit. It could be the basic one or the advanced one. It is up to you.

Kuciwalker · December 28, 2003, 15:28

Yes, I know. I actually tried that once, then quit when dozens of barbarians kept raiding my helpless capital.

MrMismatch · December 28, 2003, 22:52

Is it possible to change when the brabs change from basic to advanced?

Cerbykins · December 29, 2003, 00:55

Not that I know of.
It is bad that barbs don't seem to want to charge anymore, but considering that goody huts have finally been tweaked to give expansionists the edge...well...do you REALLY want jumped in the early exploring phase?

Inverse Icarus · December 29, 2003, 01:33

i really like the fact that the barbarians seem to run into the shadows, and try their damndest to kill workers / pillage roads.

but yeah, i've seen them sitting in camps in large stacks, for no reason.

CerberusIV · December 29, 2003, 12:53

I pushed barbs up from roaming back to raging for my current game. Horsemen are just starting to appear.

The barbs seem erratic. There is a definite radius around a barb camp and if you have a worker or city within it they come running. If not they sit and a stack builds up.

I am interested to see what happens if there are any camps left when the next era is reached. In a couple of my earlier games that seemed to trigger huge stacks of barbs heading for the nearest city.

UnityScoutChopper · December 29, 2003, 13:33

I find them actually a bit tougher this way -- "gather and attack" rather than "piecemeal."

USC

vmxa1 · December 29, 2003, 14:36

CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.

CerberusIV · December 29, 2003, 17:18

Quote:

Originally posted by vmxa1
CerberusIV after two civs make it to the middle ages it triggers barb uprisings.

I know. It makes life interesting if you are behind in tech and not ready for it.

EnduringBlue · January 1, 2004, 18:22

I have been so disgusted with the ineffectual barbarians now (I used to routinely add RAGING to my old games in order to make me mind my P's and Q's, now they just fortify unless settlers park on their doorstep) that I routinely edit their units to swordsman/knight/caravel.

at least then i can't ignore them. they used to be a crucial factor, but lately they need more testosterone.

Cerbykins · January 2, 2004, 02:59

Shame for me, because that's partly what I do to get shot of camps - move in the settler with a defender and build next to the camp

(thus guaranteeing the barbs will be on a downward slide...

)
Of course, that's only if wanted to build there in the first place

Theseus · January 6, 2004, 20:53

Without question, this needs to be addressed.

I had a stack of barb horsemen sit in place in a hut (after an era change) just SIT THERE while a whittled them down for elite promotions.

ducki · January 7, 2004, 01:07

Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic?

They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.

:doubletake:

Theseus · January 7, 2004, 02:41

To vmxa1's point:

You should be dead.

Firaxians: Not only do barbs need to re-gain some viciousness, we need to go back to Civ2...

Paddy · January 7, 2004, 05:02

Quote:

Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic?

They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.

:doubletake:

ah well, looks like the AI is using these Barbarians as AI defensive units in case one of the AI nations attacks you...

Quite amazing actually, thanks for the pic

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 06:24

Quote:

Originally posted by ducki
Dig this. Border just bumped. Hut got popped. Barbarians come raging out and....

....sit down for a picnic?

They could sack my capitol and take my workers or at least chase them all over the place. But no, they fortify in place. And I don't have a single military unit even close to them.

:doubletake:

Brilliant ducki - thanks for the screenie. I saw this recently myself, but neglected to post one. I guess we just see what happened in v1.13....

ducki · January 7, 2004, 11:22

I was gonna post a follow-up. I switched production to a settler, lost my warrior to the southern barbs, roaded 5 more tiles, mined 1, irrigated 2, settled a new town(with no escort) on the third tile down the river and until my workers started roading/irrigating the southern-most Ivory before southernmost of the northern barbs even MOVED, at which point he worked his way to the southern ivory and ate my workers - finally.

That's just ridiculous. I miss the PtW barbs. At least they would have pillaged improvements or explored or SOMETHING. I wonder how we get this to the attention of Jesse - any of you old pros got a line?

vmxa1 · January 7, 2004, 12:51

That is all I am asking for. Just a tiny tweak to make them not be so whimpy. No need to go back to them tossing themself against forted spears behind walls, just pillage when it is at no risk. Attack when you have the numbers, such as three pop out of a hut and only a regular warrior is there. If they all attack and die, that is fine, but if they all fort up, what is the results? The warrior kills them at his lesiure or walks off. I don't want to go back to the automate elite for popping a hut.

Uprisings not attacking is crazy. I used to live in fear that a stack of 8 or more horsemen would come into a town with one defender. Now they do nothing, not even pillage.