Bitter and Twisted II: The Placebo Effect

Whaleboy · December 28, 2003, 18:53

Your experiences. Mine are Prozac, and "yeh, sure this cigarette has hash in it". Dont mention "OXO" to Drogue

.

How far do you think this effect extends in the human mind, and its implications? Its an intriguing topic in psychology (mind over body etc).

Ecthy · December 28, 2003, 18:58

Prozac = placebo?

Well, I know that my effexor does have effex on me, since whenever I forget one I can feel it and actually get reminded by weird feelings. And when I forgot to take it for 3 days I got headaches and nausea, I don't know how much placebo it can be... but then it's Effexor not Prozac.

Whaleboy · December 28, 2003, 19:00

No, I convinced myself it was having no effect and bang.. no effect. Except on my libedo... thank god I'm off now!

Ted Striker · December 28, 2003, 19:06

Well the thing is that sometimes if you are taking medication, you may not think that it's doing anything.

But everyone around you will notice.

Maybe you just convinced yourself it wasn't doing anything.

Ecthy · December 28, 2003, 19:06

negative effect on your libido? I heard it does have positive effects in that regard. as has effexor

well the positive effect might be placebo one, but abandoning it certainly had negative effects.

Ted Striker · December 28, 2003, 19:08

I have never taken medication but know quite a few people that have

Paxil for sure kills their libido

Whaleboy · December 28, 2003, 19:08

Not for me! A month after I came off prozac the last time, my libedo shot up, it was quite scary. Thank god for sociology...

TS: A good point. Mind over body?

Ecthy · December 28, 2003, 19:12

effexor hasn't killed mine.

Whaleboy · December 28, 2003, 19:14

Ecthelion:

Good for you. Now get off OT and bloody use it!

Ecthy · December 28, 2003, 19:39

separated by 150km

JimmyCracksCorn · December 28, 2003, 20:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
negative effect on your libido? I heard it does have positive effects in that regard. as has effexor

well the positive effect might be placebo one, but abandoning it certainly had negative effects.

Well, usually those types of drugs will decrease your sex drive, BUT, a depressed person usually doesn't have much libido anyways, so when you go on an antidepressent, while it will make your drive go lower, the effect it has on your mood will counterbalance it... and then some.

Drogue · December 28, 2003, 22:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Dont mention "OXO" to Drogue

.

How many logical fallicies are included in that? You know that point is misrepresented, yet you proceed to tell everyone we meet about it. You also know that the "oxo" was dropped on the floor by Steve, and as such, was not smoked. Yet you seem, in full knowledge of the facts, to decide to keep telling the misrepresented version. Nice and logical of you

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
How far do you think this effect extends in the human mind, and its implications?

Very far. The tests of THC on MS sufferers showed that out of the four periods of treatment (3 THC of different strengths and one placebo) the positive effects were almost as high on the placebo as on the THC sprays. While they showed that THC did help, it was not a huge gain over the placebo. One women even swore that she can't have had a placebo because of the "wonderous effect" the whole program had on her. She was able to horseride again, that she hadn't for years, while on the placebo.

Solly · December 29, 2003, 06:05

Hash to made me feel woozy and want to lie down for an hour..

Enigma_Nova · December 29, 2003, 07:18

No medical substance use here.

Mind over matter? I tend to use that more than any drug (guess it's because I live in my mind and not in my body)

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 07:40

hash helps with MS?

Whaleboy · December 29, 2003, 08:52

Quote:

How many logical fallicies are included in that? You know that point is misrepresented, yet you proceed to tell everyone we meet about it. You also know that the "oxo" was dropped on the floor by Steve, and as such, was not smoked. Yet you seem, in full knowledge of the facts, to decide to keep telling the misrepresented version. Nice and logical of you

I will ensure that party will go down in history as the most embarrasing for you, no matter what you say

jk. Besides, you only realised it wasn't oxo afterwards, and after talking to people, the journey home with you was possibly the most amusing I have ever had!

. Still, you got me back with your xmas card that year

. Incidentally, I saw you smoking, though of course, you weren't exactly sober that night, as other unsaid unpleasantness testifies to....

Quote:

Very far. The tests of THC on MS sufferers showed that out of the four periods of treatment (3 THC of different strengths and one placebo) the positive effects were almost as high on the placebo as on the THC sprays. While they showed that THC did help, it was not a huge gain over the placebo. One women even swore that she can't have had a placebo because of the "wonderous effect" the whole program had on her. She was able to horseride again, that she hadn't for years, while on the placebo.

That is so cool! All I need now is a means of getting that effect minus the cannabis and associated costs....

Enigma:

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 11:00

what is mind over matter / mind over body?

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 11:01

Whaleboy - what exactly happened?

C0ckney · December 29, 2003, 12:58

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
hash helps with MS?

i smoke gear, i don't have MS.

QED.

Bugs ****ing Bunny · December 29, 2003, 13:37

Quote:

Originally posted by Ecthelion
hash helps with MS?

It's used with a number of conditions- AIDS and Parkinson's Disease also.

Some users report an easing of pain, reduced nausea and improved appetite. It doesn't work for all "medicinal" users, however.

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 13:43

a friend's sister has MS, that friend smoked weed all the time though, so I suppose her sister already has the benefit...

Spiffor · December 29, 2003, 14:00

Ecth:
What do you mean, benefits of Microsoft?

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 14:01

benefits of hash

Whaleboy · December 29, 2003, 14:29

Quote:

Whaleboy - what exactly happened?

I got depression, some idiot with letters after his name put me on selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors

.

Regarding Drogue, if I put it up on the internet, I would have a rather malicious utilitarian fist embedded within my cranium...

jk

Ecthy · December 29, 2003, 14:48

well I suppose there was some stuff to be smoked or swallowed, called oxo, but then it got lost somehow. you guys did smoke or swallow other stuff but noone told Drogue it wasn't oxo, so he thought it was and convinced himself that the effects kicked in. later on he realised there was nothing and everyone laughed, leaving him embarassed as hell. in the car on the way back he was in the most defensive mood he'd ever been.

how close in %?

Whaleboy · December 29, 2003, 14:52

80%. The stuff he ended up smoking (according to my minions) was actually an oxo cube. Thats vegetable stock to the unitiated...

He got me back that xmas by putting a bag of oregano in my xmas card, giving me false hopes

Zero · December 29, 2003, 16:03

I got stabbed by a knife once (my palm). It took me a long time until I realized it was bleeding. Then it started hurting like hell.

Thats kinda like placebo effect.

or smoking before I do physical activity. Nicotine does relax the muscle but it could be just placebo too.

st_swithin · December 29, 2003, 16:42

Smack has a nocebo effect.

Whaleboy · December 29, 2003, 17:01

What kind of smack?

Drogue · December 29, 2003, 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I will ensure that party will go down in history as the most embarrasing for you, no matter what you say

jk. Besides, you only realised it wasn't oxo afterwards

Which was why I gave it to steve, who was stoned enough to buy me drinks for it. You think I would have done that if it was real?

Quote:

Incidentally, I saw you smoking, though of course, you weren't exactly sober that night, as other unsaid unpleasantness testifies to....

Different night. That night was pleasant.

Ect: As Whaleboy continues to misrepresent (because a) he didn't see any of it and b) he dcoesn't have minions at a party where nobody but me and phil knew him, since it was a party for our school, and he came as a guest) that wasn't what happened.

We were given "Oxo" (by Desbo, notorious for his crap pranks) and told it was hash. Ben went in to get a drink. I gave it to someone else since it was actually oxo (it's a substance used to make meat flavour gravy) and went to find Ryan, Sam and Mark and join them in partaking in normal weed. Ben was getting drink at the bar through most of this, and I didn't see him for an hour or two.

And the card was a classic!

Back (semi) on topic: dope can allieviate symptoms on MS, but no test has shown it to have effect on the condition itself. Dope can relax blood vessels to stop headaches, especially migraine type headaches. It has other effects, but I'm not so sure about those. The main effect is stress relief, that helps many things.