Chat regarding shaddow, CC relationship and others

[Snowflake]

I have been very busy these few days so I do not have enough time to post in every thread. I'm attaching one of the chat I had with Kody so that anybody who's interested can see what my view on the recent issues are.

Major points:
1. Shaddow ministry: The shaddow ministry is set up because we had been experiencing periods of inactivity. I have spend enormous time trying to get people's opinions on issues without being successful. So we decided to set up the shaddow ministry to function just like a shaddow ministry is supposed to do: to work when the official government is not working. Members who appear to have a basic understanding of the game and is willing to work for the team is given access. Members who do not have enough interest to at least keep current on what the game is are not invited. In this sense it is open. It is open to anybody who is seriously taking an interest in the game. The new members of the Hive team has been contacted when they showed their interest. More people are planned to be added to it. All the decisions and most discussions are copied here. The game itself are posted here. Nobody has been denied any right to participate. If they had not been participate, it is because they have chosen to do so. Not because anybody denied their right to participate.

I am happy to see that the forum seemed to be quite active again. I would hope that people who had not been following the game try to get a grasp at what had been happening with the game and then we will be able to have meaningful discussions and the shaddow ministry will not be needed any more.

2. Regarding CC relationship
Before Jamski intervened we were actually going pretty well with the CC relation. They were stupid to try to threaten us but I believe they made a mistake upon ill advices from people who have not been following the game. I hope they can realize this and change their attitude. I'm still in favor of pacting with them without going war against the PEACE since we really don't have that capabilities and the CCs should know that.

I will post the chat in the next post.

[Snowflake]

Kody: hello
HongHu: hi john
HongHu: haven't finished reading all the threads yet
Kody: kay
HongHu: we do get lots activities lately lol
Kody: talk to you after you've done that
Kody: not all of it good
HongHu: it's ok we can talk
HongHu: I know
HongHu: I've been too busy lately so I missed part of the drama
HongHu: bt you and voltaire and jamski
HongHu: oh how I would have enjoyed trashing him
Kody: he got his revenage back
HongHu: lol
Kody: he alienated the team
HongHu: he's a bit crazy isn't him
HongHu: I could have pampered him a little but didn't have time
HongHu:
Kody: problem is people listen to him
HongHu: oops
HongHu: gtg
HongHu: will be back
Kody: cya
HongHu: tiger's not sleeping tight tonight
HongHu: I need to talk to him
Kody: *nod*
HongHu: I was planning to
Kody: okay then
HongHu: but talked for couple minutes and I had to go
Kody: Jamski alienated the active people from the inactive people
HongHu: don't remember did voltaire told him abou the shaddow?
HongHu: why did he tell him
Kody: yeah it got slipped
Kody: voltaire didn't realise the consequences
HongHu: the shaddow is meant to be in the dark
Kody: I didn't fully realise the consequences too
HongHu: hmmm
HongHu: well we got to deal with it I suppose
Kody: although I think I half realised, because I asked that the cycon decision be made public
HongHu: which one
Kody: basically we have people threatening to leave the hive now
Kody: the cycon pacting decision
HongHu: I have always been posting all the major decisions
HongHu: I think
HongHu: tell me one that we haven't done so
Kody: yeah, but they want to do the decision making too
HongHu: sure which one they did ?
HongHu: were they around then?
Kody: not any specific one
Kody: they just want to be part of the "action"
HongHu: I can make public the numourous PMs I sent to Jamksi asking for his opinions
HongHu: nobody has denied anybody any right to participate in any action
HongHu: we should make this clear as crystal
Kody: honghu I'm so bad at managing people
HongHu: if somebody has not participated in an action
HongHu: it is because he himself didn't participate
Kody: they don't see it that way
HongHu: that's why I said I would have so much fun to thrashing jamski
Kody: octavaian is threatening to leave unless the shadow forum is closed down now
HongHu: that he wouldn't even think aoubt makeing a public thread
Kody: I feel bad
HongHu: if they don't realize what the truth is
HongHu: they can take any action they feel like
HongHu: everybody needs to be responsible for himself
HongHu: I can stand up for myself
Kody: you see, I think that even if they don't contribute the way we like
Kody: they're still important
HongHu: I don't feel bad at all for what we have done
Kody: this is why I wanted you to run things not me
HongHu: I can face all allegations with a straight face
Kody: I don't have the right personality
HongHu: they can accuse us of nothing
HongHu: if you work
HongHu: you will be included in the shaddow
HongHu: it's this simple
HongHu: we can public the membership guidlines
Kody: oh yeah I did a follow up on the shadow ministry issue
Kody: okay that will work
Kody: with buster I mean
HongHu: they have nothing to go after us
HongHu: in the public thread it does make a good RP
HongHu: the shaddow in a police state : D
Kody: I mean I followed up with buster engima's access and that you're human resource manager
HongHu: with buster?
Kody: yep
HongHu: buster said that enigma's been added
HongHu: I told enigma too
HongHu: I think yesterday
Kody: ahh okay cool
Kody: well *looks embrassed*
Kody: I pmed buster this morning again
HongHu: he said something like he added him to the embassy and implied that he forgot about the other one
HongHu: oops sorry
HongHu: should have told you
Kody: it's okay
HongHu: sometimes communications means these little details
Kody: I'm glad that it worked out this way
HongHu: we all need to learn more
Kody: earlier is better
HongHu: lol yes
Kody: voltaire has the access list wrong
HongHu: what do you think jamski is going to do?
HongHu: I know
Kody: we need someone to figure out what is going on with the cycon
HongHu: what has been going on?
HongHu: that's the part I've missed
Kody: jamski gave us voltaire and me that stuff
HongHu: what stuff
Kody: now cycon are apparently concerned
Kody: he gave us PMs or messages from manaic
HongHu: why? concerned about what
Kody: threatening us apparently
HongHu: can you send the pms to me?
Kody: nope
HongHu: oh
Kody: Jamski doesn't keep good records
HongHu: oh you mean he didn't give it toyou
Kody: he just pasted into MSN
HongHu: do you have msn logs
Kody: I think you were in that MSN chat, if you have logging?
Kody: nope
Kody: not supported under IE 5
HongHu: I saw someting about the PMs
Kody: need IE 6 I think
HongHu: but don't think I see the PMs itself
HongHu: I was added in the middle I guess?
HongHu: maybe I need to reread it
Kody: nope at the start
Kody: very short PMs
HongHu: ok will reread it
HongHu: ahh
HongHu: threaten us what
Kody: they say they will declare vendetta
HongHu: gtg again
Kody: if we don't declare vendetta against peace
Kody: okay later
HongHu: must be that yokyo catoon he watched today
HongHu: : (
Kody: should I accept pact from the cycon?
Kody: for now
HongHu: well that was the previous agreement
HongHu: I don't know why they have changed
Kody: they may accuse us of pacting then rejecting in the same turn
HongHu: why do they want us to vendetta against peace
Kody: well if they have threatened us about 80% wants to let them vendetta
Kody: I don't know
Kody: jamski has been telling us this
HongHu: we've told them we are not prepared to do so in the first place haven't we
HongHu: why does he have to mess everything up
HongHu: I can deal with the CCs
Kody: I think he wanted us to pact with the CC
Kody: but he didn't realise we were already going to pact with the CC
HongHu: I will tell them we will still pact with them as we previously agreed
HongHu: but we will also not vendetta against peace as we previously told them
HongHu: the Hive will not bend under any pressure
Kody: did they threaten us, because if they did
HongHu: jamski is so bad at things sometimes
Kody: well a pact with the cycon would have lost all support
HongHu: he wants to help the CCs but didn't know he is hurting
Kody: do you think he made it up?
Kody: I'm not 100% sure
HongHu: I think he had chatted with drogue and manaic
HongHu: and came up a plan which maniac excuted
HongHu: so that would mean that yes they did threaten us
HongHu: it's ok if we accept the pact but keep our stance firm
HongHu: we will not lose our integrity or anything else
Kody: you'll need to sell that to the hive.
HongHu: I will add a post
HongHu: what have others been saying
HongHu: I haven't read it yet
Kody: I was thinking of a different idea, but I'm willing to follow your decision
HongHu: what's your idea
Kody: well I basically decided voltaire was right
HongHu: do you want to publish this chat?
Kody: but I was annoyed at the time
HongHu: what about him
Kody: sure if you want to
HongHu: don't remember what he said
HongHu: I'll see if there's anything that needs to be edited out
Kody: okay here's what I read
Kody: about 4 people stated that if the cycon declared war
Kody: well if the cycon threatened us rather
Kody: we wouldn't pact with the cycon
Kody: then frankychan said
Kody: just pact with the cycon, if they want to declare vendetta let them
HongHu: so kind of my idea
Kody: jamski I think wanted to pact with the cycon and send help against the peace
HongHu: did he realize we don't have anything to send?
Kody: jamski says we'll get crusier and impact and send a large army
HongHu: sure we can get cruisers and impact
Kody: they keep thinking we can get all those things from the cycon and build up the army in time for a war
HongHu: and then we build the army
HongHu: and then oh well that'll be how many turns later?
Kody: but the war will be mostly decided by then
HongHu: 10 turns perhaps?
Kody: 15 if we do it fast
HongHu: lol
HongHu: don't you think it is a good idea
HongHu: actually we can get the cruisers and impact
Kody: 7 if we resign ourselves to not getting MMI first
HongHu: I think it is going to help us
HongHu: I will not do that
HongHu: we need MMI
Kody: I think crusiers and impact can be obtained later
Kody: when they're cheaper to obtain
HongHu: does it really matter if we get it now?
Kody: only if we're going to war
Kody: roze is in freemarket
Kody: I noticed
HongHu: no but I mean the Hive has enough room to store couple cruisers don't we
HongHu: so?
Kody: so I think she'll bombard our units, but hopefully won't be able to attack
HongHu: ok?
Kody: yeah bombarding doesn't destory units
Kody: unless they're sea units
HongHu: I mean what do we have to lose if we tell the CCs that we are not going to help them now since we are not going to break our integrity also we don't have the capability
HongHu: but we wouldn't refuse them gifting us some sea units
HongHu: and if we get them in time and after the peace pact expire we will consider to help with the peace war
Kody: the problem is voltaire and a few others may be annoyed at the cycon
HongHu: why
HongHu: because of the threaten?
Kody: the demand probably lowered everyone's opinion of the cycon by 1 notch
HongHu: jamski's fault again
Kody: you see before the cycon were always friendly towards us, that's why people wanted to pact
HongHu: I wonder why the CCs are so stupid to go with him
Kody: with that gone....
HongHu: and last time I recall I'm still the CC embassador
HongHu: they didn't even consult with me
HongHu: how could they be this stupid
Kody: yeah the real problem outside the hive
Kody: was that voltaire sent an irrate PM
HongHu: do they not know that jamski had not been involved in the game for a long time?
Kody: I should have sent the message
Kody: well they saw that jamski did one of the turns I think
HongHu: do they not know that what jamski could advise them would be totally worthless to them if not actually hurting them?
HongHu: irrate PM?
Kody: voltaire sent an apparently irrate PM
HongHu: I thought I told them that Jamski's not active
HongHu: what does irrate mean
HongHu: I need to talk to them
Kody: it means annoyed
HongHu: my problem is that I'm very busy these few days
HongHu: with my friend going to Iraqe on the 5th
Kody: I tried to query Drogue about the issue, said that voltaire and jamski were at each other throats.
HongHu: I've been running around and away from the pcs
Kody: maybe we should ask mead to act as peace keeper?
HongHu: why mead
Kody: no we need someone active...
HongHu: peacekeeper bt whom
Kody: sorry I was thinking of training people for jobs again
HongHu: that's ok I think
Kody: for both hive and cycon
Kody: someone needs to mend bridges
HongHu: I can do that
HongHu: well if I have time hmmm
HongHu: how well do you know mead
HongHu: would he be able to help
Kody: I know he's not up to speed completely
Kody: however, he knows how to not annoy people when he writes
Kody: which is kindof important
HongHu: yes that's for sure
HongHu: I really think it is more of a communication problem bt CC and us
Kody: he's careful with the words he uses, I noticed
Kody: yeah
Kody: but this communication problem may cost
HongHu: that somebody tries to help but oh well he throwed a stone on his own feet
Kody: anyway whatever your decision I'll back you up
HongHu: so let me try to see if I can talk to these silly guys
Kody: if we are to get through this really difficult issue can't afford to be divided
HongHu: I'd want to go for pact and tell them we can't go to war right now
HongHu: if ever possible
HongHu: within the hive I mean
Kody: I better remove the post that says I agree with voltaire
HongHu: I don't care if the CCs will be pissed
Kody: okay
HongHu: for if they are wise they should know what they should do
HongHu: that's ok
HongHu: you can have your own opinion
HongHu: and if you want to change it later that's perfectly fine too
Kody: first reaction was that
Kody: depends on if they really meant it or not
HongHu: right
Kody: which I'm doubting more and more
HongHu: Have you noticed when are the CCs on most?
HongHu: This is the problem with "hearing things"
Kody: about midnight my time
HongHu: voltaire has the problem
HongHu: CCs have that problem
Kody: that's about 6-7 hours from now
Kody: I have that problem too : (
HongHu: they "hear" things and then second doubt themselves
HongHu: and then make a different decision
HongHu: which may not be a wise one
HongHu: I try to do things consistently
Kody: Jamski has really undermined the authority of the shadow forum too
HongHu: this way you don't need to second doubt yourself
HongHu: it's ok
HongHu: if we have active participation from the hive forum
HongHu: we can make discussions and decisions right here
HongHu: when people lost interest again
HongHu: we'll have the shaddow more active
HongHu: the shaddow's use if for exactly this purpose
HongHu: when people want to work
HongHu: it is what we wanted
Kody: they want the forum either opened or destoryed
HongHu: how can they control that?
HongHu: how are they going to verify that
Kody: yeah, but I not going to lie to them
Kody: are you?
HongHu: if they want it to be opened we can open the record
HongHu: we can copy all the posts here
HongHu: for all to read : d
HongHu: Have fun reading
HongHu: Mr skim post
Kody: I suppose
HongHu: we need to keep that space for further times
HongHu: who can garentee Mr Skimski will not vanish again and abandon his comrades
HongHu: of course I suppose we can set up the shaddow II
HongHu: but it will more hassul for buster
HongHu: and if he is annoyed enough we can sure turn the Drones our enemy : p
HongHu: hold one second
Kody: okay
Kody: Drones are only going to be destoryed by PB's now
Kody: We missed the window where we were more powerful than the drones.
HongHu: dryer
Kody: kay
HongHu: If you leave the clothes there for too long they shrink
HongHu: lol
HongHu: I don't think anybody's seriously considering attacking the Drones
Kody: jamski is
HongHu: otherthan jamski I suppose
Kody: and one or two new members
HongHu: I mean how silly that is to assist somebody to get the best weapon
HongHu: and then try attack him
HongHu: who
HongHu: make the hardest stone
HongHu: and then try to hit it with an egg
HongHu: what a herotic act
Kody: the new members don't realise about the permi-pact
HongHu: see that is the problem
HongHu: but it's ok we can tell them that
HongHu: everyone should have the right to participate in an decision
Kody: I think Frankychan has fairly level headed responses
HongHu: but they should make informed choices
HongHu: I agree
HongHu: well gtg this time
Kody: cya then
HongHu: I will be reading the forum for another 10 minutes perhaps
Kody: i've got to play the turn I suppose
HongHu: and will see if I could post this chat
Kody: kay
HongHu: ok
Kody: sure then
HongHu: cya
Kody: bye

[Jamski]

HongHu, thankyou for your accusations of lying. That was quite unlike you. I have instructed Maniac to forward the PM he sent me to Voltaire.

-Jam

Finish this later.....

[Frankychan]

Kody: they just want to be part of the "action"

Like I said before, I understand why this "private forum" was created and don't mind. But, I'm beating a dead horse so that's all I have to say about that.

Point #1 is the perma-pact. While this may be permanent, there still is the human element factor and they may very well decide that Planet isn't big enough for the Drones AND the Hive. I think we should only retaliate if they do something, but if not, leave them alone and honor the pact.

Point #2 is the CyCon relationship. Regardless of who-said-what our main problems are the other factions, not our own members. I totally agree with you Comrade HongHu in the fact that we should try to keep our relations with the CyCon warm. I don't think that Comrade Jamski divided our team at all. I think he was concerned more about the openness of decision-making and felt that decisions were being made without any thought to the rest of the members....while my own position is different than his own, I can see his side.

Nevertheless, I think we should all reconciliate and try to remember that all of us are in this together.

[Enigma_Nova]

I arrived at 2149 and I'm already in the Shadow.
All you need is competency and a will to participate deeply.

Frankychan lacks the will to participate deeply
Jamski just lacks competency.

[Jamski]

All you need is competency and a will to participate deeply.

Poppycock. You just need to suck Voltaire's penis.

Frankychan lacks the will to participate deeply

Or maybe he just lacks time. Maybe he doesn't have SMAX, and can't see the turns. Maybe he does have the will, but is excluded. In anycase, his opinion is more valuable in that it is rarely given. Put him in the "Elite Forum"

Jamski just lacks competency.

Have you ever seen one of my games? I am really quite competent. I am not, however, a mad counter of every last mineral, nor do I always take 15 hours per turn to ensure I take the optimum choice. SMAC is a game, and one should play it. I realise that for some winning easily is not enough (as I always do, playing instictively) but only winning perfectly will suffice. Oh well.

-Jam

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Jamski
HongHu, thankyou for your accusations of lying. That was quite unlike you. I have instructed Maniac to forward the PM he sent me to Voltaire.

-Jam

Finish this later.....

Dear Jamski were you refering to this chat when you say I accuse you of lying? I can't find your reference. Honestly I'd rather think that you say things without thinking sometimes. It is your artist nature. I don't think you'd deliberately lie. But you don't bother to spend time to make sure you understand a matter. That's what bothers me. But I do understand you are busy. That's why I have tried to do things with other people and in the same time try to keep you in the loop without dragging your feet too much.

[Mead]

Mead Publicly Admonishes Jamski and Enigma_Nova


Because the Flaming has appeared in Several Threads, I will be posting this in several Threads. Please direct any and all responses to the Reconciliation Thread.


Both Enigma_Nova and Jamski are from what I see active participants in the Hive.
Both are Hive members who I value and respect.

Enigma_Nova has taken on a very active role in the planning and analysis of the Hive. I understand that E_N has even become a turn player in the very short time E_N has been a member and played well.

Jamski has also been a very active member of the Hive and has taken part in many discussions on Hiverian strategy. Jamski has also played an important part in the Hive Game. Currently Jamski feels excluded.

Recent posts from both E_N and Jamski worry me. These are a sample of the quotes:

First one from E_N directed at Jamski posted in the open to all ACDG Forum ###Oh F** the secret's out### (not just the internal Hive forum).

BEGIN QUOTE:

quote:The only members are Kody, Voltaire, HongHu and Micha.

WRONG. I'm a member (just haven't posted yet)

Oh COME ON Jamski. Anyone with the desire and ability to play worth a damn for The Hive is in that forum.
Maybe if you spent less time skimming posts and overthrowing the government and more time thinking about the game, you might actually have a shot at being in the 31337_PH0R4M
quote:Noone else's opinion matters squat, so we may as well all leave the Hive.

FYI anyone who wants their opinion to matter will stay in the hive. What are you? Blackmailing? Or are you just a whining quitter?
Plus anyone whose opinion -is- worth a damn (and wants their opinion to be worth a damn) is going to that 31337 forum.

YOUR opinion isn't worth a damn because you can't be bothered to be a good player, as it was -YOU- that said playing SMAX with a calculator was not your idea of fun.
Well what for some of us, for whom that idea -is- fun?
Those that like to achieve, and conquer, as opposed to half-heartedly pushing formers onto moist squares and farming them?

What for those of us that want a home of tactics, away from the ?
The Hive was full of so we set up a forum where we could actually discuss things.
It's quite alright to divide the from the in my opinion, being an Elitist that I am.
So go the 31337 Forum.

IMO leave hive private forum for the and the 31337 forum for the strategy. Each to their own - the message is clear.
I can't understand why people would be angry at not being upperclass? Do you expect your life and value handed to you on a silver platter?

The current system works fine as it is. Thank you for arousing dissent amongst the current Hive populous.

END QUOTE

My comments:
First, E_N I understand that you wanted to respond to Jamski in the same open forum he started, but even though Jamski should not have posted his internal complaints beyond the internal Hive Forums, you should not respond in the public forums.

Second, and of greater concern to me, I feel you insult all Hive members who were not a part of the inner (31337? What is that?) forum. I do not think that was your intent and more strongly feel that it is not the intent of Kody, Voltaire, Micha, Hong Hu, or other members of the inner forum. You call us, non-inner forum members lower class [?I can't understand why people would be angry at not being upperclass.?] E_N, please remember that the Glorious Hive does not have Classes.

I am a little disappointed to see the inner-forum go, even though I was not part of it, because I think it think served a useful purpose. There may come a time when sensitive discussions will need to be discussed without the participants fearing that their thoughts will be ridiculed, or worse leaked to other factions. Yes, I have read about concerns regarding moles and there may be some truth to it. Although I agree that an internal limited access forum was proper, all Hiverians should have known the existence of it, even if they did not have access to it.


BEGIN SECOND E_N QUOTE, posted in Internal Hive Forums

I arrived at 2149 and I'm already in the Shadow.
All you need is competency and a will to participate deeply.

Frankychan lacks the will to participate deeply
Jamski just lacks competency.
END SECOND E_N QUOTE

My comments:
I am assuming that these are your personal opinions and not that of those of the Hive.



Jamski has made a number of posts recently that have alleged improper actions of members of the Hive. He started a thread in a non-internal Hive forum to air Hive problems before non-Hive members. The below post is the one that concerns me the most.
BEGIN JAMSKI QUOTE (in Chat regarding shaddow, CC relationship and others, thankfully, on the Internal Hive Forums)
quote:All you need is competency and a will to participate deeply.


Poppycock. You just need to suck Voltaire's penis.
quote:Frankychan lacks the will to participate deeply

Or maybe he just lacks time. Maybe he doesn't have SMAX, and can't see the turns. Maybe he does have the will, but is excluded. In any case, his opinion is more valuable in that it is rarely given. Put him in the "Elite Forum"
quote:Jamski just lacks competency.

Have you ever seen one of my games? I am really quite competent. I am not, however, a mad counter of every last mineral, nor do I always take 15 hours per turn to ensure I take the optimum choice. SMAC is a game, and one should play it. I realise that for some winning easily is not enough (as I always do, playing instictively) but only winning perfectly will suffice. Oh well.

-Jam
END JAMSKI QUOTE


My comments:
Jamski, I understand that you are angry and being defensive, but you language and insults risk drawing the attention of the Moderators for your comments. Further than that you behave in a manner that risks to diminish your standing within the Hiverian community.



I admonish both of you.



Enigma_Nova
Jamski is a valued Hive player who should not be excluded from participation in this game. Also, we the non-inner forum members are not second-class citizens and should never thought of as such. This is the Hive not Morgan Enterprises. I would hope for a sincere clarification from you retracting the suggestion that there are different classes in the Hive.

Jamski
Your language to us, in particular, your allegation of what was required to gain access to the inner forum is inexcusable. I would hope for a sincere apology to all of us for the your statement. I value your inputs to the game and appreciate now knowing that there was an internal forum, but wish you to be more civil in your opposition.


To all:
I believe that this is an internal Hive matter that should be resolved within the Hive and should not draw attention of other factions nor the Moderators. Although I considered ignoring these posts in the hopes that it would all just go away, I feel that if we do not admonish the behavior, the posts will get worse.


Mead

PS

Mead is happy to see the involvement and passions aroused by the recent game events, but is saddened but the recent incivility he has seen within the Hive. He hopes the disturbing downward trend ceases and all come to their senses as Comrades in Arms.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Jamski
Poppycock. You just need to suck Voltaire's penis.

Despite me being one of the most belligerent/self-important people you'll ever meet?

Then again that's probably why I'm in... 'cuz nobody is going to to tell me what to think or what to believe; I'd rather form my own mind and damn well speak it.

Or maybe he just lacks time. Maybe he doesn't have SMAX, and can't see the turns. Maybe he does have the will, but is excluded. In anycase, his opinion is more valuable in that it is rarely given. Put him in the "Elite Forum"

Lacks time == Lacks will to devote time
Lacks SMAX == Then why's he at this forum?
Excluded == a possibility... any of you higher-ups recieve a request from FrankyChan yet?

Have you ever seen one of my games? I am really quite competent.

Am I sensing a PBEM coming on?
We can get all the hive heavyweights to come play.
Kody, Voltaire, Enigma_Nova, HongHu, Jamski, Micha...
Then we will see who PWND!!!11

[Enigma_Nova]

ARGH I got owned

Originally posted by Mead
Mead Publicly Admonishes Jamski and Enigma_Nova

Note to self: Tendency to relentlessly attack everything within range backfired.

ENIGMA_NOVA:

Oh COME ON Jamski. Anyone with the desire and ability to play worth a damn for The Hive is in that forum.
...
Noone else's opinion matters squat, so we may as well all leave the Hive.

I always support a government system (meritocracy?) where those with the desire and ability to judge are the ones that call the shots.
As for those with the desire but not the ability, you educate them.

My comments:
First, E_N I understand that you wanted to respond to Jamski in the same open forum he started, but even though Jamski should not have posted his internal complaints beyond the internal Hive Forums, you should not respond in the public forums.

I place great value on having my opinions publically heard, evaluated and tolerated. I make it the point of my life to ensure renegade thinkers are free.

My motive in responding publically was to show folk who can't see into the hive forum that we -do- actually have some good people around. If your impression of The Hive comes from Jamski's post you're going to get a biased view aren't you?

Put me on trial for posting a controversial opinion - fine by me. I'd sooner be disliked by -you- for saying something that upset you than be disliked by -me- for holding back when I wanted to say something.
It's all about our selves and our self-worth, isn't it?

Second, and of greater concern to me, I feel you insult all Hive members who were not a part of the inner (31337? What is that?) forum.

My 'intent', mead, is to drive home a distinction between those that want to be elite from those that are lazy, and build a clear dividing line.
I should make it perfectly clear that I resent to think of having apathetic, ineffective or corrupted people in power over my work or in power over me.

It happened with my mother, it happened with my education, it happens with the frat boys at my college, it happens with western society as a whole.
These entities, quite frankly, haven't got a clue who I am or how to manage me, and moronically apply the same old doctrine.
It -may- well work for their kind, those that would rather -not- think for themselves, but I am me. Enigma_Nova. I make it my point to think and cause introspective skill to rise above the pro-physical apathetic doctrine of this world.

I'll happily kill anyone that stands between me and my desire.
My desire? In the Hive?
Let those who have wisdom use it, let wisdom who want wisdom learn it, and let those who can't care rot and die.
Oh BTW I just get more angry if you opress my ability to spread my thoughts so don't go signing your will just yet.

E_N, please remember that the Glorious Hive does not have Classes.

Well it seems to now!
I'm not against classes, just so long as people are allocated correctly to their abilities and desires.

Jamski is a valued Hive player who should not be excluded from participation in this game. Also, we the non-inner forum members are not second-class citizens and should never thought of as such. This is the Hive not Morgan Enterprises. I would hope for a sincere clarification from you retracting the suggestion that there are different classes in the Hive.

Retraction not granted.
There are those that have wisdom and want to use it
There are those that don't have wisdom but want it
There are those that can't care for wisdom
Three classes.
A leads, help B to turn into A, C can form their own society.
For example, I was once B.
Come to think of it we all still retain some of our B tendencies...
So none of us are truly A-class because learning never stops.

So we're a mix of the A-B spectrum.
As for the C class, perhaps people have mixed feelings towards being a part of this?
Ummm let me think...
Okay, I've got it.
All members on the Human Hive can be represented on a 2-D plot.
There are 2 axes, the 'skill' and the 'desire' axes.
There's probably a cutoff for entry into the Shadow Forum, but I don't know where exactly.

[Jamski]

Enigma_Nova==Fez's DL

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

Got an IP tracker to prove it?
...who the hell is fez anyway...

[Jamski]

indicates humourous comment. It was also a polite, mannered way to be rude, without saying what I really think

-JAm

[Enigma_Nova]

Safer you say what you really think and beat up on the fools that try to stop you.
Heck that's what I would do!

But if you're into the whole closed book secrecy thing that's fine... I'll still fight enemies.

[Jamski]

Nah, you get banned from 'poly if you say what I wanted to say. Better to bite my tounge sometimes... and now I'm feeling calm again, so forget the whole thing, eh?

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

CENSORED

[Jamski]

/me grins *

-Jam

[Voltaire]

Comrade Enigma, your communications with Citizen Jamski place you under suspicion of collaboration with an Enemy of the People, and your comments on the Central Continuing Committee (the one and only rightful representatives of the People) can be misconstrued, I suggest your refrain from making them in the future.

[Mead]

Please help me.

What does PWND mean?


Mead

[Jamski]

Its like OWNED, but more.

Central Continuing Committee (the one and only rightful representatives of the People)

The only rightful representitives of the people are the people themselves! Arise ye victims of oppression!

-Jam

[Voltaire]

The only rightful representitives of the people are the people themselves! Arise ye victims of oppression!

Then do it, free the people from their oppression. Establish a democratic government and I will resign.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Voltaire
Comrade Enigma, your communications with Citizen Jamski place you under suspicion of collaboration with an Enemy of the People, and your comments on the Central Continuing Committee (the one and only rightful representatives of the People) can be misconstrued, I suggest your refrain from making them in the future.

And I suggest you keep your nose out of my damn affairs.
Enemy of the people? WTF? You setting up some 1984-type scenario here?

I'll support Jamski's ability to speak his mind; I'll support my tendency to express dissent; I'll voice my dissent to legal systems that are against those that speak their mind.

There's not a damn thing you can do about it, Chairman. If the Shadow incident didn't prove the corruption of the elite, victimising those that dissent will.
Plus, with Jamski and I out of the loop, Kody and HongHu taking breaks, you'll be the only elite player left.
Getting kind of lonely at the top, eh?

Don't do anything stupid, Chairman. You want to keep your precious faction and your precious CCC, do you not?

[Enigma_Nova]

doublepost

[Voltaire]

And I suggest you keep your nose out of my damn affairs.

Funny, I was under the obviously false impression the good of the Hive was my affair. Oh forgive me all-knowing Enigma, I was so obviously mistaken.

Enemy of the people? WTF? You setting up some 1984-type scenario here?

Hmm, let’s see. Taking actions which interfere with the good of the Hive, hence the People, and thus harm the People, doesn’t constitute an enemy of the People?

I'll support Jamski's ability to speak his mind; I'll support my tendency to express dissent; I'll voice my dissent to legal systems that are against those that speak their mind.

And you have every right to, in so long as it does not interfere with the good of the Hive. Promoting dissent against the rightful government hardly seems in the best interests of the Hive. But then again with Kody gone I do not think we have hope left. *sigh*

There's not a damn thing you can do about it, Chairman. If the Shadow incident didn't prove the corruption of the elite, victimising those that dissent will.

Actually Comrade Enigma, I can do a lot about it, such as edit your posts, send you to court for counter-revolutionary activities, things like that.

Plus, with Jamski and I out of the loop, Kody and HongHu taking breaks, you'll be the only elite player left.
Getting kind of lonely at the top, eh?

Actually you overestimate your value to the Hive, you and Jamski are hardly on the top f the list of replacement turn players. If I recall correctly next in line is Dcole.

Don't do anything stupid, Chairman. You want to keep your precious faction and your precious CCC, do you not?

You would think so, wouldn’t you? But I wouldn’t make any assumptions Comrade Enigma, push me and you’ll see how far I will go.

If you quote me you will see that I am trying to provoke The Hive into making rash and irrational claims in order to use them in an ad-hominem attack

Good for you.

[Jamski]

Hmmm, the thing is, Comrade Chairman, that my last revolution kinda "failed"... ummm... I'll get back to you on my plans to free the people in a glorious democratic revolution...

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

Edited for the sake of peace

Save for me just getting the KODY seal of approval!
If I don't stuff up the parallel turn for the next turn he supports me as turn player.

[Snowflake]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova

Am I sensing a PBEM coming on?
We can get all the hive heavyweights to come play.
Kody, Voltaire, Enigma_Nova, HongHu, Jamski, Micha...
Then we will see who PWND!!!11

Such an interesting proposal ...
/me winks while reflecting back about the Red Field ...

And joint victory must be disallowed.

[Jamski]

I'm happy to play a PBEM anytime.

/me remembers the ridiculous map in Redfields *

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

Sweet. Now how do I set up a PBEM?
I'll make a nice, equally awkward map for a bit of a challenge.

Dibs on Gaians

[Vev]

I can imagine the politiking and eventual backstabbing going on.