Accept Jamski in the Consciousness?

[Maniac]

From Kody,

Maniac,

Once a while ago, I did you a favour with getting reismarks for your avatar. Now I hope you can return that favour.

Due to problems with Jamski in the hive government we were wondering if the cycon would take Jamski in (assuming we get googlie to agree).

The last thing that the hive wants is to throw Jamski out of the game. However, we feel that Jamski's view on the way things should be run in the hive doesn't match that of the majority.

His trial is going to be happening very soon. As this is his second offence, I doubt they'll give him a third chance.

The hive accepts that Jamski will defame the hive while in the cycon. We hope that the cycon balances whatever he says about us with some reason. Also that he will share all our plans and opinions. Since we never hid that much from the cycon anyway, it won't matter that much.

We simply ask that he doesn't give out the password, or open up or allow others to open up the old hive save game files.

This idea hasn't been finalised yet, I've only talked to voltaire. I wish to speak to honghu and perhaps some of the others.

Kody

My reply:

Hi Kody,

That seems like a good solution. Though the preferred outcome for this game in the Consciousness is still a co-op with you if possible. Do you think Jamski would try to prevent that?

Can I post this PM in the CyCon private forum, so every cyborg can give his opinion? Or do you first want to discuss it a bit more in the Hive?

Greetings,

Maniac

Kody back:

This PM I don't consider secret so you can post it in your forum. Note that this idea isn't 100% certain, and nothing may come of it. At the moment I'm trying to ensure the move is legal for this unique case.

I don't want you to upset Jamski over this issue until Googlie comes back with a reply. So please don't tell him until it's rule possible or not. Googlie may rule it as illegal and hence I will probably have to suffer some serious backlash. After it is decided whether it's legal or not the courts need to decide whether Jamski will be exiled or not. Mead, Octavian and Honghu will be running the proceedings as those are the most impartial judges we could find.

The main issue is that Jamski hasn't been getting along well with the current hive leaders, and has pulled a few stunts that we didn't approve of. I reached the end of patience this morning when he critisied Voltaire and me publically throwing out words I didn't even say.

Quote:

Though the preferred outcome for this game in the Consciousness is still a co-op with you if possible. Do you think Jamski would try to prevent that?

Jamski won't prevent it as long as he's not pissed with the hive. The trial will be mostly roleplay of nature so hopefully he won't get pissed.

Also it will be the cycon's responsibility to balance whatever Jamski says with sound reasoning and consideration if jamski decides he hates the Hive.

[Nubclear]

This would be against the rules Not to mention...other factors which you are aware.

[Impaler[WrG]]

I would personaly be against having him join us even if it was legal. He has shown himself to be an unpredictable rogue element and he is aparently a big spamer within the Hive. I dont know if asimilation into the Conciousness would change that or not, I would rather not run a risk like that. He chose his Colony Pod now let him sleep in it.

Also why dose everyone thinks he has been feeding us vast sums of information and is about to give us passwords and other highly illegal stuff. We would never accept such contraband in the first place, its blatently illegal. Is our public image that bad?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Impaler[WrG]
Also why dose everyone thinks he has been feeding us vast sums of information and is about to give us passwords and other highly illegal stuff. We would never accept such contraband in the first place, its blatently illegal. Is our public image that bad?

Where did you hear this?

[laurentius]

I agree with Impaler. He is too unpredictable and after the resent stunts I simply cant trust him.

[Impaler[WrG]]

Kody implies that in his message.

"We simply ask that he doesn't give out the password, or open up or allow others to open up the old hive save game files."

"Also that he will share all our plans and opinions."

It seems that Kody has belives that Jamski is capable of anything and he is all guilty of every crime imaginable in the Hives mind. I think you have been getting them rather paranoid with this investigation thing Tass.

[Maniac]

Forget I mentioned anything about moving jamski to the cycon. If Voltaire wants to bring it up again he can do that.

The odd one out isn't Jamski, he fits right in with the faction, it's me.

***
From Kody. And Kody has left the Hive once again.

[DeathByTheSword]

i dont care if he joins or not...everone is welcome to the cycon...the majority rules anyway

[laurentius]

Kody left again!? Maybe we should try to offer him an asylum

[Method]

I will destroy you.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Method
I will destroy you.

Jamski hacked Methods account!!!!!

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
This would be against the rules

I agree with Tass

We made an exception very early in the game for General Tacticus, but after much discussion around that it was decided that there would be no others

The subject has, of course, re-opened with the discussion of conquered factions' members, spies, etc etc, but I'd still think that withion the roleplay concept the Hive should just deal internally with its dissenters - isn't that what a Democracy Game is about anyway?

G.

[Maniac]

but I'd still think that withion the roleplay concept the Hive should just deal internally with its dissenters

Do you also think that a faction member giving some information to another faction should be dealt with internally?

[Drogue]

I agree with Googlie. And in answer to Maniac, personally I would say yes. Unless they are a member of another faction, it is an internal mole.

[Googlie]

Originally posted by Maniac
Do you also think that a faction member giving some information to another faction should be dealt with internally?

Yes - there have been several instacnes in the game so far. And that's what the Hive did with their shadow cabinet and forum (maybe exacerbating Jamski's disatisfaction with the Hive in doing so)

But as a Democracy Game, he should rally support and then go for a leadership vote in the faction.

(I do feel a bit of guilt, as his original "coup" was as a result of my putting them on notice that I'd play the turn by "turn complete" - no-one was around, so Jamski played it, then withdrew it after Kody played it. I ruled that Jamski's was the official turn, and he's taken grief ever since (due to some missed opportunities, vendetta with the Angels, etc etc)

G.

[Drogue]

I feel for Jamski too. But his current actions are not helping. I hope this is sorted out though, Jamski's a nice guy.

I agree completely with Googlie

[Kody]

Also why dose everyone thinks he has been feeding us vast sums of information and is about to give us passwords and other highly illegal stuff. We would never accept such contraband in the first place, its blatently illegal. Is our public image that bad?

At the time yes.

Hrmm maybe I shouldn't have listen to tassadar so much about the whole spy issues. Maybe I took him too serious.

Maybe we should try to offer him an asylum

And it looks like there's more proof that I've misjudged people.

Forget I mentioned anything about moving jamski to the cycon. If Voltaire wants to bring it up again he can do that.

The odd one out isn't Jamski, he fits right in with the faction, it's me.

***
From Kody. And Kody has left the Hive once again.

Yeah, I should have nevered even considered the possibility of removing Jamski out of the Hive. Where was my loyalty to a friend.

I realised that while I made great progress for the Hive that great progress was detrimental to the team. My actions didn't encourge team play, and I need to stay away long enough so that team play developed.

So that's what I did, and I was right. They eventually did manage to gain long term stability, although the Hive was nolonger as quirky and interesting place to be.

[Snowflake]

I was the one who opposed moving Jamski to the CCs. I have till today believed in his love to the Hive. He may have done things that was not so good in the end result for the Hive, but I never doubted his intention for one minute.

The Hive never really managed to gain any long term stability. The only stability I have to say is myself, and Voltaire, actually. But the Hive has always been a nice place to be. Jamski is the one who first made the Hive such a quirky and interesting place. And so many others. The gameplay may not be effecient but we were high in spirit. Impaler was so wrong in thinking that the good spamming does not do good to a team.

When Kody first gained superiority I fighted hard against him. I sent Voltaire multiple PMs accusing him being LinBiao (Mao's vice chairman who planned an unsuccessful coup). I forwarded all those PMs to Jamski when he came back from ceiling painting, and was misunderstood by him and thus caused a three way conversation among Voltaire, Jamski and Tass, when Jamski accused me of running some kind of conspiracy. You can all read the chat transcript in the IC stories.

Jamski convinced me that Kody was alright and I started to trust him. And we had a brief golden age. But then the team activity has started to die down because Kody was so effecient, just as I predicted to Voltaire. When Kody realized it he tried to take on a teaching role, but people just got lazy. The Hive never recovered its golden age no matter if Kody quit from the team, or come back for the team.

And then we lost many good Hiverians, and either the temporary but frequent retirement of Kody or the periodical inactiveness and later defecting of Jamski did any good to the team. I reckon although they are friends who values and respects each other, one never really accepted the other's right to be the most prominent member in the team. And thus the feelings were hurt by each other. And they never were able to really work together. I had tried to be a facilitator, but I was never too successful in uniting people together.

But I don't know why, I still feel the Hive is the best team. And we have the best teamates. I really do love each and every one of them.

[Snowflake]

I realize you never did see those PMs Kody. I just looked for them and I have deleted them and I couldn't find them in the downloaded files too. I hope Voltaire or Jamski still have them. I really want you to read them.

[Kody]

It's okay Honghu, I never really noticed you fighting against me. I was too busy squeezing extra ECs out of the turn to notice.

[Snowflake]

Ok I'll let you in a little more secret. Remember the Roko scheme? You told Voltaire that Roko tried to get you on his side by offering you a job. I asked Roko about that and he denied it. I then PMed Voltaire something like this:

I have been thinking after we chatted last night. And I have felt some kind of growing worries for you dear Chairman. If I could be so bold please bare with me. Looks to me you are more and more like Chairman Mao in his late years, surrounded more and more by people who are less trustworthy and farther and farther away from those people you should trust. (This is kept from the IC. Then I wrote more: ) Imagine some one, whose fanaticism toward the game would actually cause him to lie in order to gain the power and trust he needs. ... The newly budding democracy are murdered and people's voices are muffled. When everybody loses his interest in the game, it will be your turn...

Remember the chat we had when you say you were "sitting at the fence"? You were trying to see if I was bought by Roko and I was trying to get from you if you have lied. Oh what fun time it was ...

[Snowflake]

That chat was the first time I started to get to know you I think. And when I really get to know you better I realize boy how wrong I was before.

[Kody]

Actually I'm very impressionable. You see Voltiare had been talking to me about Rokossovky and how he would try and take over. Two days later Rokossovky offered me a job and I turned it down because I thought Rokossovky might have been trying something. Looking back I don't actually think Rokossovky was trying anything.

Just like now that I look back I think I was largely wrong about the cycon. Won't go into who was talking to me.

I really was sitting on the fence, because I always avoid conflict if I can and was pretty sure I could avoid it. If was trying to see if you were brought by Roko, then it was because I'm insanely curious about everything (that conversation was a bit hazy for me though). At the time my only strong loyalty was to Vev who was completely netural, and a partial loyalty to Voltaire because I believe in following the command structure.

[Hercules]

It is amazing how you guys can threadjack

[Illuminatus]

Herc! Welcome in CC. Just don't mind all the anti-pirate stuff here. This was only a game . BTW how about some authorising ?

[Kody]

Well I learnt how to threadjack in the Hive, because everyone would do it all the time there. There were threadjacks of threadjacks in the Hive.

[Maniac]

I guess what Hercules just did was in fact a threadjack of a threadjack.

[Snowflake]

In fact this is exatly the reason why we did the shaddow ministry. You see any thread if started to discuss some serious game related issues it will end up about half accross the planet. But guess what I really loved the spamming too.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Nobody go authorising Ming or Dan... Sometimes I'm amazed the turn was actually played.

[GeoModder]

Spam at your hearts contents, and the rest will follow...
Mmm, nice one for a sig...