Rio starts ID checks on US flyers

Alex · January 4, 2004, 14:08

From BBC:

Quote:

Rio starts ID checks on US flyers

US travellers will face tough immigration checks in Brazil

Police in Brazil's tourism capital have begun photographing and fingerprinting all US visitors arriving at its main international airport.

The security measure extends a law passed by a Brazilian federal judge on Thursday to check all incoming US citizens at Sao Paulo airport.

The judge's order is in response to a US announcement that it would be vetting visitors from many countries.

But Rio's mayor says the extra checks will damage Brazil's tourist industry.

Brazil's Federal Public Ministry filed a complaint in a federal court over the US immigration measures, arguing its citizens were being unfairly discriminated against and urging the US to remove Brazil from its list of security threats.

Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva agreed, saying "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis. "

The US-VISIT security system - to be introduced on Monday - hopes to identify travellers who have violated immigration controls, have criminal records or belong to groups listed as terrorist organisations by the US.

Some see the decision by Brazil to counteract the US security procedure with its own law as a ***-for-tat response.

US travellers in Rio have expressed mixed views over Brazil's decision to vet them.

"I am sympathetic with Brazil," one US tourist said.

"I am in disagreement with my government for making people pay a lot for a visa, making them get fingerprinted and stamped. If Brazil does it, I understand."

Others were frustrated by the digital divide between the two countries.

"Ours is all electronic scanning, in and out in a heartbeat," US traveller Lorin Hall said.

"Here, it's 15 to 20 minutes per person with only one person working."

There are also fears in Brazil the move could affect tourism during the upcoming carnival season in Rio.

Carlos Alberto Ferreira from the Brazilian Association of Travel Agencies said: " This is not good for the city nor the state."

"I think the Brazilian Government needs to express to the US Government that Brazilians are suffering with their restrictions in American airports but we shouldn't be doing this in retaliation."

The US said it would watch the new Brazilian rules closely, but stressed that it was the country's right to impose such requirements.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3366519.stm

Somehow, it is a childish act of retribution, but what the US is doing is horrible too.

DinoDoc · January 4, 2004, 14:11

Quote:

Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva agreed, saying "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis. "

I've never seen someone invoke Godwin's law in a news article.

Edan · January 4, 2004, 14:12

Quote:

"I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis. "

Sava · January 4, 2004, 14:24

Quote:

Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva

he's right

the difference between Nazi Germany and America is very small... both are corporatist states... it's only that Hitler wanted to kill everyone else... the elite in America would rather have economic slavery. Sure, the Nazis were a more brutal form of evil... but when American apologists say to themselves... WELL WE AREN'T AS BAD AS THE NAZIS... don't you think there is a problem?

The one parrallel between Nazi Germany and America that is extremely disturbing... is the apparant self-assurance the general population has that they are good people. While the majority of individual Americans, even most conservatives are probably good people, they are completely ignorant of what their corrupt elitist politicians' policies actually do to the rest of the world... and the less fortunate IN America.

DinoDoc · January 4, 2004, 14:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
he's right

Now we have someone invoking the spirit of Godwin in the thread. I suggest the mods close the thread ASAP. It will only go downhill.

Harry Tuttle · January 4, 2004, 14:38

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
he's right

the difference between Nazi Germany and America is very small... both are corporatist states... it's only that Hitler wanted to kill everyone else... the elite in America would rather have economic slavery. Sure, the Nazis were a more brutal form of evil... but when American apologists say to themselves... WELL WE AREN'T AS BAD AS THE NAZIS... don't you think there is a problem?

The one parrallel between Nazi Germany and America that is extremely disturbing... is the apparant self-assurance the general population has that they are good people. While the majority of individual Americans, even most conservatives are probably good people, they are completely ignorant of what their corrupt elitist politicians' policies actually do to the rest of the world... and the less fortunate IN America.

Conjecture, flame, bs...

America = Nazis is one of the dumbest arguments a person could make. Hell why don't we start calling France nazi-like because they are banning religious symbols in schools, or Britain nazi-like because of their hand gun laws? The only problem with "WELL WE AREN'T AS BAD AS THE NAZIS" is that someone bothered to answer the question.

Also, "probably good people,"??? You're a jackass.

Spiffor · January 4, 2004, 14:57

I think it's a good move to show the Americans what humiliations their government force upon foreigners

DanS · January 4, 2004, 15:09

I don't have any problem with Brazil doing this. You set the rules for entry into your country, and I don't think it's humiliating, unreasonable, or damaging at all for fingerprints and a picture. Perhaps you could work on your system to make it more efficient, though, as the one traveller suggested.

I seriously doubt that the message received by the US will be the message that is intended, however. But hey, whatever makes y'all feel better.

OliverFA · January 4, 2004, 15:19

If Brazil government was formed of intelligent people they wouldn't do this. Assuming they achieve what they want (that no more Americans travel to their country) it will only result in economic losses, because the main purpose they travel there for is tourism.

By the way: Accusing the ones who freed Europe from nazism of being nazis is a bit too much in my opinion...

OliverFA · January 4, 2004, 15:24

Quote:

Originally posted by DanS
I seriously doubt that the message received by the US will be the message that is intended, however.

I seriously doubt they are sending any message to the US. The message I see is something like "look what the terrible Americans are doing to us". They are just inventing something else to blame Americans for.

KrazyHorse · January 4, 2004, 15:34

You're a dork. They aren't doing anything more than the Amis are doing to them (making travellers get fingerprinted and ID'd)

If we weren't on the "you don't have to do this because you're white" list, then I'd expect my government to do the same.

JCG · January 4, 2004, 15:43

Quote:

Originally posted by OliverFA
If Brazil government was formed of intelligent people they wouldn't do this.

I doubt that the "intelligence" of individuals has anything to do with this.

In any case, it's a relatively questionable move, but it can be understood, and some extra security doesn't hurt anyone.

DanS · January 4, 2004, 15:51

While te club is mostly white, there are non-white countries, such as Japan, which are also exempted because no visa is required for citizens from these countries.

KrazyHorse · January 4, 2004, 15:52

I know, Dan.

Racism is simply a fun accusation to throw around.

KrazyHorse · January 4, 2004, 15:53

****. Once Bush finds out there are black people in Brazil, they're really going to be in trouble...

Berzerker · January 4, 2004, 15:55

Quote:

Judge Julier Sebastiao da Silva agreed, saying "I consider the act absolutely brutal, threatening human rights, violating human dignity, xenophobic and worthy of the worst horrors committed by the Nazis. "

Is the named judge the one responsible for the Brazilian ruling? So this judge wants to emulate the Nazis? Maybe this guy should advocate a holocaust against Brazil's undersirables since he seems to think the way to respond to "Nazi-esque" policies is to repeat them in Brazil. And I thought the US had low qualifications for being a judge... How would this buffoon react if Brazil was under attack?

DanS · January 4, 2004, 15:55

Yeh, I know you were just busting some balls, but...

notyoueither · January 4, 2004, 16:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Berzerker

Is the named judge the one responsible for the Brazilian ruling? So this judge wants to emulate the Nazis? Maybe this guy should advocate a holocaust against Brazil's undersirables since he seems to think the way to respond to "Nazi-esque" policies is to repeat them in Brazil. And I thought the US had low qualifications for being a judge... How would this buffoon react if Brazil was under attack?

I was wondering if that quote is taken out of context, and simply put there to make him look like a bufoon.

'What they are doing is wrong for any reason. Let's do it to them!'

laurentius · January 4, 2004, 16:14

Great move by wise brazilians!

Berzerker · January 4, 2004, 16:30

Sava -

Quote:

he's right

the difference between Nazi Germany and America is very small... both are corporatist states... it's only that Hitler wanted to kill everyone else... the elite in America would rather have economic slavery.

Well, since both were/are "corporatist states" obviously bent on "economic slavery", you must believe mass murder is an insignificant detail. Nice to see your new years resolution wasn't getting a thinking cap.

Quote:

Sure, the Nazis were a more brutal form of evil... but when American apologists say to themselves... WELL WE AREN'T AS BAD AS THE NAZIS... don't you think there is a problem?

This judge didn't say anything about the US being Nazi-like because of it's economic system. He's claiming the US is Nazi-like because of a security measure to identify certain visitors during a war and you're claiming he is right, but instead of defending his idiocy, you've started singing your own loony tune.

Quote:

The one parrallel between Nazi Germany and America that is extremely disturbing... is the apparant self-assurance the general population has that they are good people. While the majority of individual Americans, even most conservatives are probably good people, they are completely ignorant of what their corrupt elitist politicians' policies actually do to the rest of the world... and the less fortunate IN America.

We're largely ignorant because (shock) our leaders don't want us to know what they've been doing in our name, but how is that any different than other countries? On the other hand, can you name one country with the comparative power held by the US that has shown such restraint wrt foreign policy? Hell, the US has liberated dozens of countries in the last 60 years... Do you want to blame the corporations for that too?

Verto · January 4, 2004, 16:30

They really stuck it to us this time!

Pardon me while I go goose step around the American flag and fun of Jews.

Berzerker · January 4, 2004, 16:38

Quote:

I was wondering if that quote is taken out of context, and simply put there to make him look like a bufoon.

While the article doesn't clarify if the quoted judge made the ruling, I'd be surprised if the quoted judge was talking about some other issue that made the US appear Nazi-like...

KrazyHorse · January 4, 2004, 16:39

What ruling?

KrazyHorse · January 4, 2004, 16:41

Reread the article.

How the hell can a law be "passed by a Brazilian federal judge"

Isn't passing laws the territory of legislators?

Berzerker · January 4, 2004, 16:43

"The security measure extends a law passed by a Brazilian federal judge on Thursday to check all incoming US citizens at Sao Paulo airport."

Berzerker · January 4, 2004, 16:46

Yeah, either the author of the article is confusing a ruling with a law or Brazilian judges get to write laws and make rulings wrt laws. Maybe Brazil doesn't have a judiciary separate from the legislature.

Sikander · January 4, 2004, 18:21

Well, there goes the trip to Rio that I wasn't going to take anyway. Seriously, Brazil is fully within its rights here. I wouldn't blame Americans for not wanting to put up with this retaliatory harrassment and skipping travel to Brazil either.

Sava · January 4, 2004, 18:31

Quote:

Well, since both were/are "corporatist states" obviously bent on "economic slavery", you must believe mass murder is an insignificant detail.

I specified that is the difference... www.hookedonphonics.com

Quote:

This judge didn't say anything about the US being Nazi-like because of it's economic system. He's claiming the US is Nazi-like because of a security measure to identify certain visitors during a war

it sounds like he's referring to the overall policy against muslims... over 83,000 deported so far... no criminal charges filed... only 11 POSSIBLE links to terror...

hmmm... rounding up people of a certain ethnic/cultural makeup... sounds like what the nazis did. The difference is we deport them... the Nazis killed them.

Quote:

On the other hand, can you name one country with the comparative power held by the US that has shown such restraint wrt foreign policy

restraint?

tell that bullshit to the Iraqis...

yeah I guess you are right... we're the only nation to ever possess the power to nuke the world... I guess it's commendable the US hasn't nuked the world...

Ned · January 4, 2004, 18:44

I think that da Silva guy might be a relative of my wife. Her uncle was and I think still is their equivalent of "attorney general."

Regardless, most of her family are very anti-American.

OliverFA · January 4, 2004, 18:45

If I remember correctly, we are talking about a country who stayed in Germany and Japan after defeating their governments in WW2. They didn't have any obligation to stay. They could just have said "ok, they were the ones who provoked the problem, they have to get out of it themselves". But instead of that they helped bringing democratic regimes to Japan and Germany and boosting their economy. Japan is by no doubts among the best economies in the world and Germany is not doing bad either despite the problems they are having lately. Definitely that's what a nazi country would do, help their enemies after defeating them.