Third Constitutional Committee

[Voltaire]

The recent outcry in the Hive against the activities of the government have reinforced our need for a new constitution to define the responsibilities and rights of the government and the citizenry. Therefore I call forward all citizens of the Hive to come together and work out a constitution to govern the State and the People of the Human Hive.

The previous constitutions failed due to lack of citizen participation, the extra-constitutional transition government failed due to the citizens demanding more participation. I therefore urge you to come back and work within the government of the Human Hive since you so desire.

It needs to be said outright that not everyone will get everything they want; we will work off of the principle of compromise.

With that in mind to get this positional congress going I think it fit to retain the Supreme People’s Court, for it has preformed its functions twice now in Hive history with success, and the Central Continuing Committee as it has been the one stationary body through the political turmoil within the Human Hive.

The provisions for the activities of these two bodies will of course be laid out within the constitution, and are open to discussion.

With those words, I declare this constitutional congress open for session…

[Voltaire]

General Principles

Article 1 [Socialist State]
(1) The Human Hive is a socialist state under the people's democratic dictatorship led by the working class.
(2) The socialist system is the basic system of the Human Hive. Sabotage of the socialist system by any organization or individual is prohibited.

Article 2 [Sovereignty]
(1) All power in the Human Hive belongs to the people.
(2) The organs through which the people exercise state power are the Central Continuing Committee, and .
(3) The people administer state affairs and manage economic, cultural and social affairs through various channels and in various ways in accordance with the law.

Article 3 [Democratic Centralism]
(1) The state organs of the Human Hive apply the principle of democratic centralism.
(2) The Central Continuing Committee, are instituted through democratic election. They are responsible to the people and subject to their supervision.
(3) All administrative, judicial and procuratorial organs of the state are created by the Central Continuing Committee to which they are responsible and under whose supervision they operate.
(4) The division of functions and powers between the central and local state organs is guided by the principle of giving full play to the initiative and enthusiasm of the local authorities under the unified leadership of the central authorities.

Article 4 [Socialist Legal System, Rule of Law]
(1) The state upholds the uniformity and dignity of the socialist legal system.
(2) No law or administrative or local rules and regulations shall contravene the Constitution.
(3) All state organs, the armed forces, all political parties and public organizations, and all enterprises and undertakings must abide by the Constitution and the law. All acts in violation of the Constitution and the law must be looked into.
(4) No organization or individual may enjoy the privilege of being above the Constitution and the law.

[Voltaire]

I suggest we maintain the present preamble, with modifications to include the new state organs once decided upon, for it embodies the spirit of socialism and the Human Hive.

[Jamski]

I suggest we include these basic rights :

• All Hive members have an equal right to open the turn save.
• All Hive members have an equal right to state an opinion.
• The votes of all Hive members have equal weight.
• Noone may be forced to leave the Hive, except they break the rules of the game.
• All Hive members have an equal right to be informed of all desisions.
• All Hive members have an equal right to take part in all discussions.
• All Hive members have the right to a private life, and in spending time away from the Hive, they do not forfit any of their rights.
• All these rights are the same for all Hive citizens, and are not dependent on thier level of participation, past, future or present, but are extended to all Hive members freely. They are not a reward for good behavior.
• No Hive government may take away these basic rights.

-Jam

[Vander]

Jam, how can we prevent espionage? What if we find a spy?

[Enigma_Nova]

Anyone call for a detached renegade?
Time to bring my unique perspective to the conversation, unbiased by the writings of any major political philosopher (principally because I don't read political philosophy).

I'm closer to libertarian / anarchist than most people are comfortable with, because I (personally) have a higher ability to lead myself than most, and a higher desire for other people to do the same.

In any circumstance, I'd be aiming for:

Liberty.
No Citizen shall be tied down by duty to the hive (with fear of reprimand); All work will be voluntary.
Respect is the only payment for hard work, and the only punishment is loss of respect.
(GO the honour system)

Creation.
All Hive members have the ability to formulate their own thoughts. This activity should be encouraged in the utmost.
The Thoughts of all Hive members, though not equally thought-out, informed or correct, should be expressed, and we should encourage and accept expression of belief.
Nor should we ignore or flame noobs, but rather help to upgrade the flawed into the higher-order players

Information.
May no piece of information be denied from any hive member to any other hive member (excepting a spy, who will promptly cease to be a Hive member). All opinion, argument and information flow shall be free.
This is to facilitate discussion within the Hive, so as to use every man's ability to process information and make decisions.

Decision-Making.
All hive members are equally entitled to their vote presuming they show a level of competency in their field.
All Hive members may state their opinion or keep it silent, but an opinion that is unexpressed (or without backing argument) should not be encouraged to win.

---

I am concerned about the way several people kiss up to any set rules and regulations, acting as if laws were absolute.
Know that I am firmly against this stance, I do not support such belief.

All 'laws' are merely common belief, that can be disagreed with and challenged. There is no absolute right way to act and as such there is no absolute wrong way to act.
People will work on a 'creation & judgement' system where they judge the situation and create an action. (Yes we already do this but it's a matter of mindset)

If we can rid ourselves of the need for absolutes, and pinning ourselves into boxes and frameworks, we're taking a step towards wisdom, autonomy, and ultimately a better lifestyle.

[Octavian X]

My first suggestion for a new constitution would be mandated, regular elections for Chairman.

No offense against Comrade Voltaire, but our chief executive, to ensure that he truly answers to the people, must be elected in a democractic process. Voltaire's election occured so long ago, and was decided by so few people, I hardly think it can be claimed he was elected.

The idea of an elected Chairman leads me to a second proposal: that all members of the government under him, with the exeception of the People's Court, be appointed by him, as well as removed by him. The idea is that we can then keep the number of inactive government members down to a minimum.

[Vander]

I like Oct's proposal.

[Jamski]

Jam, how can we prevent espionage? What if we find a spy?

Then they break the rules of the game and MAY be expelled.

I like Oct's proposal.

I fricking LOVE it.

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Octavian X
My first suggestion for a new constitution would be mandated, regular elections for Chairman.

No offense against Comrade Voltaire, but our chief executive, to ensure that he truly answers to the people, must be elected in a democractic process. Voltaire's election occured so long ago, and was decided by so few people, I hardly think it can be claimed he was elected.

The idea of an elected Chairman leads me to a second proposal: that all members of the government under him, with the exeception of the People's Court, be appointed by him, as well as removed by him. The idea is that we can then keep the number of inactive government members down to a minimum.

Meh... those that have the competency to lead don't always have the competency to persuade. Take me for example.
Of course... we could probably elect someone who knows what they're on about.
Like Octavian, or FrankyChan or such.

I'll have to talk to Octavian X about all this, because I intend to have a say in how the new system is constructed.
Are we all in on this one?

---

Is it at all possible that the candidates for the election be the ones that worked on the government? Are people required to voice their desire for a position, or can anyone be nominated?

[Snowflake]

A chairman should be able to lead the team. And one prerequisit would be that he has to be able to commit himself. I would like to say that other than the short period before the Jamski coup, Chairman Voltaire had done an excellent job as a Chairman. I just would like to caution everybody when we are discussing this in such enthusiasm, that being a chairman means a great responsibility.

[Octavian X]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova Is it at all possible that the candidates for the election be the ones that worked on the government? Are people required to voice their desire for a position, or can anyone be nominated?

I'd assume these elections would procede in a manner similar to previous ones. A thread would be opened, requesting nominations for the position. Self-nomination would be allowed. Once the nomination was accepted by the nominee, that person would be on the upcoming ballot. Of course, since I am envisioning a government entirely appointed by the Chairman, there would be no prerequisite government service.

As HongHu has stated, the only true, if unstated, requirement would be the desire to lead the nation, and the desire to pour every ounce of your devotion in doing so. There is no way to place a legal requirement on this, so it's up to the people to decide.

[Jamski]

I'd support that. Who would wish to run for Chairman, and how often should the elections be?

-Jam

[Enigma_Nova]

I've never led anything before so I might as well give it a shot.
At least I can't be sued for negligence if I fail...
And if I win it will look good on my CV.

[Octavian X]

Elections, I think, should occur monthly. A month is a nice, easy, definition for a term in office for these types of games.

Of course, some sort of recall prcocess could also be set up, just in case. The mechanics of such a process would need to be decided upon.

[Jamski]

Monthly sounds ok. If noone challenges the election then the incumbent retains the job?

-Jam

[Snowflake]

I nominate Voltaire. He's been doing a good job. He had never quit the team. All of us had not been working for the team one point of the time. Except for that one turn when he had exams Voltaire had never left the team unattended. He spend tremendous time on MSN talking to people. Even on that turn when we hadn't played for 5 days, I know that he had talked to Rokossovky (for he was supposed to be the turn player) and others multiple times so I would not put the blame entirely on his shoulder.

Voltaire is competent and trustworthy. He will not desert his comrades. I will vote for him.

[Snowflake]

Oh and another suggestion. I think we probably should elect the three or four key officials too. If they are all appointed by the Chairman I worry if they don't work it will be solely the Chairman's burdon to locate them and talk to them. Whileas if they are elected they have to answer to the people.

[Octavian X]

Jamski: If there were no challangers, I'd just change the election into a regular yes/no vote on the Chairman's continued term in power. That way, the chairman could be removed if people didn't want him in office any longer. This scenario assumes people were just too afriad the run in the first place.

HongHu: We'll start some elections after we have a new constitution, not while we are discussing it.

Elections for officials under the Chairman is a feasible enough option. My only concern is that we'll still have deadbeats in office, meaning that we would really need to set strict standards on expected performance, as well as create a quick mechanism for removal.

[Snowflake]

Oops sorry. I saw Enigma's post and thought that we are to make norminations right now.

I agree with you that we probably need to set expected performances for key office holders and mechanism for removal. Also people who are planning to be busy for a short period should announce ahead of time and find somebody to temperarily cover for him.

[Enigma_Nova]

Why do we need a chairman, anyway?
Someone tell me why Voltaire's position is important?
What prevents us from self-governing, as it were?

[Kody]

For people that have concentrated mainly on turn playing, volatire's work has been mainly behind the scenes.

Voltaire has given me alot of advice when I've been uncertain of what path to take and dealt with many of the issues that have arisen with dissatisifed members.

Also when a decision (sometimes temporary) must be made for the short run that can't brook waiting more than 12 hours, Voltaire as chairman has been on MSN to authorise the decision. Without that many of the critical trading opportunities would have been missed due to it being too late.

Voltaire also happens to have a more medium opinion in many diplomatic matters. While Honghu and I usually go for strong trust and squeaky clean diplomancy, Voltaire is there to remind us of those that don't support that kind of approach. He's helped with figuring out the comprimises.

Oh yeah, he's the one that runs all the government roleplaying. There wouldn't be much government roleplaying at all without him.

To sum up, he plays the devil's advocate, he deals with unrest, he allows decision to be made taking responsibility for them, he's also been one of the bridges between turnplaying and the hive as a whole, and he runs the government roleplaying.

[Kody]

I'm not paying much attention to the new constitution, so I'll leave it to others figure out how those things fit in (or if they fit in) with a new government system.

[Jamski]

he plays the devil's advocate

To my devil.

he deals with unrest

created by me.

and he runs the government roleplaying.

It takes two to tango

-Jam

[Voltaire]

I have a proposal. We will hold provisional elections for a Chairman soon, that Chairman will be responsible for the new constitution, whereupon they will resign when the new constitution comes into effect and we will hold new elections under the constitutions. Sort of like in the first ACDG with the first Commissioner.

[Enigma_Nova]

Writing a constitution?
Ehh...

Why's it a one-man show, anyway?
I'd support HongHu, if only because I trust her to involve the other folk.

Have I not *****ed about having my unconventional and wise opinions heard? As one of the few surviving people not to be affected by a common stance of morality, I could be an excellent addition to the constitutional formation comittee

In the end I'd have everyone jump in. I'd sooner have the matters resolved now than have us devolve into infighting.
(and you KNOW that if I feel stifled I can blackmail you by refusing to play the turn)

Voltaire, while I appreciate your training, here your learning is your prejudice. No need to base a constitution on the laws or guidelines of old.
Laws? We are smart enough to understand the social implications of our actions. Laws are for those too stupid to see their effects. If a person thinks the current way works they will work with it and if not then they will help update it.

Note that I am going to some lengths to avoid the tragedies of Earth reappearing on Chiron - don't throw it in my face with a less-minded pro-rules anti-creativity anti-judgement system or DOOM BE UPON YOU!

[Octavian X]

Voltaire, while you work on a proposal, let me add one more suggestion: try to keep it relatively simple.

For realism's sake, having such bodies as the PAC and the People's Congress were nice. However, for our game, I feel that such bodies are unnecessary on the grand scale of things for this demogame.

[Voltaire]

Interesting how the responses received do not quite seem to hit the mark as to the intended topic, what I’m saying is simple, you wanted democracy, I’m giving it to you, now elect a Chairman to start writing the constitution the ‘people’ want. I, in all honestly, did try, but the responses received in terms of suggestions were vague and few.

With that, so that people can get their act together, I am officially resigning as Chairman, as of this moment we do not have a government, so I would suggest to the people to get their act together and elect a new one. Being a private citizen and one most adamantly opposed to the changes taking place and in the new spirit of apathy, I no longer have responsibility to organize these elections. Thus to those of you who support democracy, you have your wish, now act upon it.

[Octavian X]

Voltaire, I thank you for the fair manner in which you have dealt with this matter, and for your service to the Hive. Your willingness to step aside and allow for a new Chairman to be elected is truly a testament to your greatness.

Still, I would be interested in seeing your proposal for a new government...

[Mead]

Originally posted by Voltaire
Interesting how the responses received do not quite seem to hit the mark as to the intended topic, what I?m saying is simple, you wanted democracy, I'm giving it to you, now elect a Chairman to start writing the constitution the ?people? want. I, in all honestly, did try, but the responses received in terms of suggestions were vague and few.

With that, so that people can get their act together, I am officially resigning as Chairman, as of this moment we do not have a government, so I would suggest to the people to get their act together and elect a new one. Being a private citizen and one most adamantly opposed to the changes taking place and in the new spirit of apathy, I no longer have responsibility to organize these elections. Thus to those of you who support democracy, you have your wish, now act upon it.

If we are going to have a new Constitution, let's pattern it on something simple, we'll known and easy to use.

Myself, being from the United States am familiar with the U.S. Constitution.

I think we can kind of base it on that or one of the other democracies around the world.

There are a few things I like about the US one.

1. I am familiar with it, and know how it works.
2. It really is simple, just a few pages, and it seems to have worked reasonably well over the past 200+ years.
3. It already, with its amendments spells out how to elect and recall the executive.
4. It shows how the legislature (people) influence power.
5. It shows how the courts work and how basic rights are protected.

Please, please, please, note, I don't want to get into a philosophical dispute over US policy or politics (past, present, or future). I make the suggestion as a pragmatic solution to the problem. It may make the job of writing a constitution easier (we may even be able to copy it electronically to MS Word, modify it to suit our needs, and vote on it).

There are a few changes I would like to see.
1. Replace the Congress with a Parliment (a two house legislature is too complicated and unwiedly, plus we have too few members)
2. Change the term of years for a Chairman from 4 years to something longer (perhaps 8, it should be debated).
3. Remove the two term limitation on the executive.

Please let me know what you think. If you have there is another constitution we should consider basing ours on please suggest it. Whatever we choose we will have to make some modifications to fit our unique needs.


Mead

PS

I do not think we should accept Voltaire's resignation just yet. I think that he should stick around as Chairman at least until we get something else in place.