CNET News Article: All Eyes On Apple - Page 7

Q Classic · January 14, 2004, 18:12

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You really are a pathetic jerk. You complain about people arguing about this sort of stuff while at the same time trying to start a fight about the very same thing. Hypocrisy thy name is...

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Moreover, you come up with the same tired old crap that's been done to death by dickhead umpteen times. As I said, some of it may be right, but it is all shamelessly exaggerated.

as is all the "MICRO$OFT IS TEH 3V1L" stuff people tend to spout. microsoft isn't anybody's friend, but they're about as much the be all end all of teh 3v1l as apple is the be all end all of innovation.

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I really can't be bothered with such lame trolls Although I will point out that the whole ipod battery controversy was bullshit. If the ignorant idiots had bothered to Google they would have found you could buy a replacement battery for 50 bucks.

agathon, this happened only after a huge online movement by some dissatisfied customers.

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This is almost the same as in that philosophy/politics thread where you posted endless illiterate semi-English drivel and maintained the same tired old position in spite of being shot full of holes by numerous posters.

which one was this? care to enlighten me? are you, by any chance, referring to the social security thread? i'm sorry if it bothers me that i'm going to be shafted by the SS for the rest of my life. and i'm sorry that it makes me angry. in fact, i'm sorry that i'm not a good mac-loving communist philosophy teacher academic like you.

you know what? drake's right. this isn't worth my time--i oughta be reading for class tomorrow, where i'll learn about the joys of mearsheimer's realism and how massive military force is always the way to go, even if all we do is be an offshore balancer.

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No he's not. You should see some of the other crap he posts. What kind of clown insists you should buy anti virus software for a platform that has had no confirmed viruses in nearly four years of operation?

at my old job, we had a mail server that ran off of linux. since there really aren't that many virii for linux, i suppose it was an expensive waste for us to fork over hundreds in licensing fees to symantec.
would i buy av software for mac os x if i had it? yes. would it be a purchase i made immediately? perhaps not. while i'm at school, where we have a licensing deal, sure, it'll be one of the first things i install.
it's your decision what you do with data. i myself would rather err on the side of security and caution, but to each his own.

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I know that was posted in response to Asher's links to the bad business Web site, but what's that supposed to mean? I'm on an iMac now, one that hasn't caused me a single problem in the 4 1/2 years I've had it. Not one! You can't judge an entire line of computers based on the sample provided by Asher. Good grief. If people did that, every single damn computer maker would've been out of business a month after they shipped their first unit.

gatekeeper, i'm offended by imacs because i'm offended by their philosophy.

for me, a computer should be either powerful and upgradable, or supremely portable. thus, the G5s rock, the Sony VAIO laptops rock, the iBooks rock, but the iMac, which is kinda that in between... sucks. neither portable nor powerful, and that's why it offends me.

has nothing to do with the actual machinery... i'm sure it's a decent computer, although i hesitate to deign it with that moniker.

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It supports Gnutella, too. I use both pretty regularly.

two years ago or so, i liked carracho. how is it these days?

Q Classic · January 14, 2004, 18:21

http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html

didn't this guy once work for apple?

Agathon · January 14, 2004, 18:45

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Originally posted by Q Cubed

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You really are a pathetic jerk. You complain about people arguing about this sort of stuff while at the same time trying to start a fight about the very same thing. Hypocrisy thy name is...

Oh Jesus, let's not fight. I was just pissed off that you were starting the very thing you were complaining about.

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as is all the "MICRO$OFT IS TEH 3V1L" stuff people tend to spout. microsoft isn't anybody's friend, but they're about as much the be all end all of teh 3v1l as apple is the be all end all of innovation.

And you'll notice that that stuff in this thread from me was intended as a joke. Typically, when I say something like "MICRO$OFT IS TEH 3V1L" I'm taking the piss.

I don't think monopolies are good and I've had bad experiences with MS software. I don't think they are evil, but I do think they've abused their position. That puts me among a large number of people. What's so weird about that?

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I really can't be bothered with such lame trolls Although I will point out that the whole ipod battery controversy was bullshit. If the ignorant idiots had bothered to Google they would have found you could buy a replacement battery for 50 bucks.

agathon, this happened only after a huge online movement by some dissatisfied customers.

No it didn't. The video that started all this came out after the battery replacement program was in place. It was a fairly new program since the first generation of ipods are only a couple of years old.

The day it came out I saw it and Googled "ipod replacement battery" and got a slew of hits for companies offering 50 dollar replacements (some including installation).

Again, this is affecting only some people. It depends on how much you used the thing and on your pattern of usage. There's nothing odd or underhand about it.

There's an email exchange floating around the net between the authors of the video and a guy who was hosting their movie. He got pissed off with them because they were just out for publicity and weren't willing to admit that their claims were false. I had it bookmarked, but I appear to have deleted it. I'm sure you can find it if you try.

I suspect that these people were paid by Dell or some other company to trash the ipod before Xmas. It obviously didn't work.

However, the ibook logic boards thing is a fair cop. Apple should replace all those machines. It was only one model which has now been discontinued anyway.

The other stuff really wasn't that widespread so making a big deal of it is exaggerating.

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which one was this? care to enlighten me? are you, by any chance, referring to the social security thread? i'm sorry if it bothers me that i'm going to be shafted by the SS for the rest of my life. and i'm sorry that it makes me angry. in fact, i'm sorry that i'm not a good mac-loving communist philosophy teacher academic like you.

But you just kept repeating the same claims despite people providing counterarguments. It appeared to me that you didn't understand the basis of social security, which is just an insurance scheme. It's compulsory for the same reason car insurance is compulsory - because that's the best way to do it.

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at my old job, we had a mail server that ran off of linux. since there really aren't that many virii for linux, i suppose it was an expensive waste for us to fork over hundreds in licensing fees to symantec.
would i buy av software for mac os x if i had it? yes. would it be a purchase i made immediately? perhaps not. while i'm at school, where we have a licensing deal, sure, it'll be one of the first things i install.
it's your decision what you do with data. i myself would rather err on the side of security and caution, but to each his own.

But how can it be caution when there are no viruses? There really aren't any. If they do start cropping up, I'll almost certainly hear about them before I have a chance to get one since all the Mac news sites will report it.

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I know that was posted in response to Asher's links to the bad business Web site, but what's that supposed to mean? I'm on an iMac now, one that hasn't caused me a single problem in the 4 1/2 years I've had it. Not one! You can't judge an entire line of computers based on the sample provided by Asher. Good grief. If people did that, every single damn computer maker would've been out of business a month after they shipped their first unit.

gatekeeper, i'm offended by imacs because i'm offended by their philosophy.

for me, a computer should be either powerful and upgradable, or supremely portable. thus, the G5s rock, the Sony VAIO laptops rock, the iBooks rock, but the iMac, which is kinda that in between... sucks. neither portable nor powerful, and that's why it offends me.

The ibook is not upgradeable either. Both are consumer machines. You seem to be the sort of person who needs a powermac.

You can upgrade things like the hard drive in an imac - I did it for mine and it wasn't hard.

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It supports Gnutella, too. I use both pretty regularly.

two years ago or so, i liked carracho. how is it these days?

I never use it, so I don't know.

Agathon · January 14, 2004, 18:55

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Originally posted by Q Cubed
http://www.asktog.com/columns/044top10docksucks.html

didn't this guy once work for apple?

Yes, he was a designer of the original OS.

Not everyone agrees with him about the Dock and it has undergone quite a bit of alteration since he wrote his first column about it.

Some of the problems he raises are just silly. No one I know puts their documents in the dock and the most common folders you put there have identifying marks so they can't be confused and there's no point in minimizing windows now that we have Expose (a truly great feature).

He also wants the mac's application menu back. The Dock is way better than that, and with Expose you don't need it anyway.

I happen to like the Dock. I use it now a lot more than I used to do.

Q Classic · January 14, 2004, 19:27

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Oh Jesus, let's not fight. I was just pissed off that you were starting the very thing you were complaining about.

umm... ok... ?

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I don't think monopolies are good and I've had bad experiences with MS software. I don't think they are evil, but I do think they've abused their position. That puts me among a large number of people. What's so weird about that?

these days, i hardly think microsoft is as much of a monopoly as it once was. the inet has done a lot for that, as has the rise of open source. have they abused their position? yes.
in a small parallel, so has apple; rather than competing by cost, they make their users beholden to their proprietary technology and add a hefty charge to it. the companies which once made apple clones are no more, for instance.
what's so wierd about people who dislike apple because of that?

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But how can it be caution when there are no viruses? There really aren't any. If they do start cropping up, I'll almost certainly hear about them before I have a chance to get one since all the Mac news sites will report it.

'tis better to have everything locked down than to look back later and say, oh, i shoulda done that.
maybe working as a sysadmin gave me that somewhat paranoid mindset, but it's a rough harsh world out there, out in the untamed inet.

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The ibook is not upgradeable either. Both are consumer machines. You seem to be the sort of person who needs a powermac.

You can upgrade things like the hard drive in an imac - I did it for mine and it wasn't hard.

*points to*

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a computer should be either powerful and upgradable, or supremely portable. thus, the G5s rock, the Sony VAIO laptops rock, the iBooks rock, but the iMac, which is kinda that in between... sucks. neither portable nor powerful, and that's why it offends me.

way ahead of ya.

and i know imacs do have basic upgradability. it's not enough. can't swap out the mobo, can't swap out the gfx, can't add extra internal HDs or optical drives, can't add extra USB/FW/NIC ports, etc., etc., etc. (technically, you can't do all of that with a powermac, but it makes up for it with its sheer power.)

after googling a bit on the ipod stuff, i'll give you that. i actually didn't pay too much attention to it, because i don't really care for one; i'm happy with my creative keydrive/mp3 player combo that, although it only holds 64mb, also doubles as a memory stick. since i sleep on flights, i wouldn't listen to the whole thing anyhow.

i personally don't like the dock. even on its tiniest setting, it seems to take up an unholy portion of the screen. perhaps it's because i'm more used to the taskbars of KDE and Windows, but even when i tried y'z dock for windows, i wasn't impressed. personal preferences is what that particular thing boils down to.

Q Classic · January 14, 2004, 19:27

actually, i want a tabletpc... there's a $999 linux one, might be tempted to get it...

Agathon · January 14, 2004, 20:21

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Originally posted by Q Cubed

these days, i hardly think microsoft is as much of a monopoly as it once was. the inet has done a lot for that, as has the rise of open source. have they abused their position? yes.

I certainly hope that Open Source will lead to a better deal for consumers. The economics says it will, but that's not counting the possibility of dirty tricks.

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in a small parallel, so has apple; rather than competing by cost, they make their users beholden to their proprietary technology and add a hefty charge to it. the companies which once made apple clones are no more, for instance.
what's so wierd about people who dislike apple because of that?

This is an enduring myth. Apple makes most of its money from hardware. If the clones had been allowed to persist Apple would have gone out of business and there would have been no more Mac OS for the clones to run.

There isn't a competitive market for Mac Clones, at least not now. Any attempt to make one would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs.

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'tis better to have everything locked down than to look back later and say, oh, i shoulda done that.
maybe working as a sysadmin gave me that somewhat paranoid mindset, but it's a rough harsh world out there, out in the untamed inet.

For a home user like me who gets most of his mail through the university's system it isn't a problem.

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and i know imacs do have basic upgradability. it's not enough. can't swap out the mobo, can't swap out the gfx, can't add extra internal HDs or optical drives, can't add extra USB/FW/NIC ports, etc., etc., etc. (technically, you can't do all of that with a powermac, but it makes up for it with its sheer power.)

You aren't the sort of user the imac is pitched at. I mean, I'd like a powermac, but it would be massive overkill for what I do. I don't edit massive video clips or do a lot of image work and the most intensive games I play are EU2 and HOI.

Having said that, my G3 imac is over four years old and runs the very latest Mac OS sweetly for everything I want to do with it. Even the eye candy doesn't slow it down.

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after googling a bit on the ipod stuff, i'll give you that. i actually didn't pay too much attention to it, because i don't really care for one; i'm happy with my creative keydrive/mp3 player combo that, although it only holds 64mb, also doubles as a memory stick. since i sleep on flights, i wouldn't listen to the whole thing anyhow.

Those guys who started the video campaign are definitely suspect.

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i personally don't like the dock. even on its tiniest setting, it seems to take up an unholy portion of the screen. perhaps it's because i'm more used to the taskbars of KDE and Windows, but even when i tried y'z dock for windows, i wasn't impressed. personal preferences is what that particular thing boils down to.

You can make the Dock vanish. I used to, but I've gotten used to it. I sometimes use it for application switching, but the new apple-tab switcher is bigger, better, quicker and a lot nicer to look at.

e.g.

Asher · January 14, 2004, 20:33

QCubed: The creative keychain MP3 players can hold up to 512MB now.

Drake Tungsten · January 14, 2004, 21:20

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two years ago or so, i liked carracho. how is it these days?

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I never use it, so I don't know.

Q Classic · January 14, 2004, 21:38

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QCubed: The creative keychain MP3 players can hold up to 512MB now.

****ers came out with a better version after i bought it.

Drake Tungsten · January 14, 2004, 21:42

Why the hell would anyone buy a 512MB MP3 player? You might as well just by a CD player that can play MP3s...

Asher · January 14, 2004, 22:52

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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
Why the hell would anyone buy a 512MB MP3 player? You might as well just by a CD player that can play MP3s...

Because it's solid state -- a boon for athletes. It's also smaller than an iPod or a CD player and way lighter, and 75% of the casing comes off to reveal a 512MB USB 2.0 FlashDrive.

Dimensions: 36.7 x 74
Weight: 43g w/ battery

versus iPod mini:

Dimensions: 50.8 x 91.44
Weight: 102g w/ battery

The MuVos also act as a USB FlashDrive on computers without any connecting cables to **** around with.

Asher · January 14, 2004, 22:56

Creative not only made the first flash-based MP3 players, then the first HD-based MP3 player, but now the first USB-keychain/MP3 player hybrid.

How long until Apple copies it do you figure.

asleepathewheel · January 14, 2004, 23:30

wow, thats a sweet little device. looks nearly perfect for my needs (a small workout-able device)

I had a mp3-cd player, a riovolt (can't remember which version) was a pos. incredibly fragile.

Drake Tungsten · January 14, 2004, 23:36

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How long until Apple copies it do you figure.

A pretty long time, I'm guessing, given Apple's stated disdain for Flash-based MP3 players.

Asher · January 14, 2004, 23:38

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Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
A pretty long time, I'm guessing, given Apple's stated disdain for Flash-based MP3 players.

It's their stupidity for ignoring the market for them then.

HD and Flash MP3 players are different markets. Creative, rather intelligently, competes in both.

Apple's never been that business-savvy.

I still use my old-school Nomad II 128MB when I go to the gym.

Drake Tungsten · January 14, 2004, 23:41

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Apple's never been that business-savvy.

So? I know I'd rather have them put all their efforts into making quality HD-based players than waste their time on Flash-based ones. I don't really care if it's a "business-savvy" move or not...

Agathon · January 14, 2004, 23:49

$63 million bucks in the black this quarter and a 235% increase in ipod sales, which are still selling out in the UK as fast as they can be delivered.

Complete idiots....

Asher · January 14, 2004, 23:49

If they put all their efforts into making quality HD-based players, you'd think they wouldn't cheap out on the materials used. Sure, they look nice -- but once you get one, you realize how ****ing easily they scratch.

At least Creative puts better quality finishes on theirs.

I've had my Zen for a year and not a scratch on it. I never use a case or anything. My best friend Tom has an iPod for about 1 month longer than I've had my Zen, and the back of it is scratched to all hell, and the screen has a "pressure" scratch on it.

I'm also not sure if it's a good thing for Apple to ignore the flash market. Flash capacities are growing faster than HD capacities, and prices are falling faster. It's far more energy efficient, too.

Agathon · January 14, 2004, 23:57

Gatekeeper · January 15, 2004, 05:06

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gatekeeper, i'm offended by imacs because i'm offended by their philosophy. for me, a computer should be either powerful and upgradable, or supremely portable. thus, the G5s rock, the Sony VAIO laptops rock, the iBooks rock, but the iMac, which is kinda that in between... sucks. neither portable nor powerful, and that's why it offends me.
has nothing to do with the actual machinery... i'm sure it's a decent computer, although i hesitate to deign it with that moniker.

Ah, well, to each their own, Q Cubed. The iMac model suits me just fine, but then again, I'd also probably be comfortable on a mid-level Windows machine, too.

Heh. I basically just need a machine capable of high-speed Internet connections, mid-level gaming and a good word processing program. The iMac gives me that, and the new models, well, heck they've got a lot of stuff on 'em I likely wouldn't use (i.e. burning DVDs, making home movies, listening to music and whatnot).

Glad to see that the G5 leaves a positive impression ... that's a bit out of my price and need range, though, so I likely won't use it unless I hold off on an imac purchase for another year and they put a G5 chip in it during that time.

Gatekeeper