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View Poll Results: Are you satisfied with the way ICS is dealt with in Civ III?
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It is just perfect.
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13 |
14.44% |
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It is good, I would add some minor tweaks.
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33.33% |
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It is not good, we need a complete overhaul of the idea
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20.00% |
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I like Culture, but I would like to see some other way to combat ICS
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14.44% |
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banana
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16 |
17.78% |
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December 13, 2005, 08:52
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#181
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Emperor
Local Time: 17:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 4,037
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How?
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December 13, 2005, 09:36
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#182
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Local Time: 16:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Land of teh Vikingz
Posts: 9,897
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For padding Enigmas post count I assume...
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I love being beaten by women - Lorizael
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December 13, 2005, 18:48
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#183
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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Well, I suppose that's all it is good for now, but I sort of wanted a discussion about how Resources and Upkeep eliminated ICS.
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December 14, 2005, 08:16
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#184
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Local Time: 16:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Land of teh Vikingz
Posts: 9,897
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This might seem like a crazy suggestion but have you considered starting a new thread on this topic?
__________________
I love being beaten by women - Lorizael
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December 14, 2005, 09:56
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#185
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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Well, I have now! 
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December 14, 2005, 13:04
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#186
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Local Time: 16:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Land of teh Vikingz
Posts: 9,897
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Good boy 
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I love being beaten by women - Lorizael
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December 14, 2005, 20:55
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#187
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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December 14, 2005, 22:19
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#188
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King
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Amish Country
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Dr Zoidberg
For padding Enigmas post count I assume...
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I'd never do that. 
(Ooops!  )
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"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
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December 15, 2005, 00:03
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#189
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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Owned.
Oh, and by the way
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December 15, 2005, 00:06
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#190
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King
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Amish Country
Posts: 2,184
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I like the dancing lock. 
__________________
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
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December 15, 2005, 00:16
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#191
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Deity
Local Time: 11:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Enigma_Nova, this is absurd. Please stop your spamming spree.
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Russian_King
the way i see it... ICS is encouraged in civ4. you are always benefitted with stuff for havig lots of cities (as long as they have a good distance between each other so they dont overlap and you can get some resources)
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At the cost of ballooning city support costs. Obviously more cities -> more production and resources. It shouldn't be any other way.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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December 15, 2005, 00:53
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#192
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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Quote:
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I like the dancing lock.
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I think it's hillarious.
... It's not a spamming spree. I haven't even had a moderator announce " MULTISPAM" yet.
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December 15, 2005, 00:57
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#193
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King
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Amish Country
Posts: 2,184
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Kuci does have a point.
__________________
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
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December 15, 2005, 01:24
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#194
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Deity
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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ICs is solved as it has changed from where you could have a city then another only one space gap between, now you forced to have two spaces and the upkeep does make it harder. but obviously you still need t obuidl more citys to win, it is an empire building game not a one citybuilding game.. more ccitys = biger empire.....
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GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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December 15, 2005, 01:31
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#195
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Deity
Local Time: 11:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
I think it's hillarious.
... It's not a spamming spree. I haven't even had a moderator announce "MULTISPAM" yet.
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Just because a mod hasn't slapped you down yet doesn't mean your signal-to-noise ratio isn't crap.
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Quote:
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ICs is solved as it has changed from where you could have a city then another only one space gap between, now you forced to have two spaces and the upkeep does make it harder. but obviously you still need t obuidl more citys to win, it is an empire building game not a one citybuilding game.. more ccitys = biger empire.....
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More cities = less money to spend on tech = bigger backwards empire = you lose.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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December 15, 2005, 01:39
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#196
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King
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Amish Country
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker
More cities = less money to spend on tech = bigger backwards empire = you lose.
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Becomes a delicate balancing game. Wonder if the AI cheats any in that regard?
__________________
"And so, my fellow Americans: ask not what your country can do for you—ask what you can do for your country. My fellow citizens of the world: ask not what America will do for you, but what together we can do for the freedom of man." -- JFK Inaugural, 1961
"Extremism in the defense of liberty is not a vice." -- Barry Goldwater, 1964 GOP Nomination acceptance speech (not George W. Bush 40 years later...)
2004 Presidential Candidate
2008 Presidential Candidate (for what its worth)
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December 15, 2005, 01:51
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#197
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Deity
Local Time: 11:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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I doubt it does so significantly, on noble. The AI gets a few cheats on noble but I don't think anything directly related to city maintenance costs. (Of course gold saved anywhere helps offset those costs.)
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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December 15, 2005, 04:15
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#198
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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Perhaps it's hardcoded how many cities it tries to get vs. how much income it has?
I know that I'll get advice to build a settler when I become economically powerful, even if I have no place left to put it!
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December 15, 2005, 16:51
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#199
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Deity
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker
Just because a mod hasn't slapped you down yet doesn't mean your signal-to-noise ratio isn't crap.
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Quote:
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ICs is solved as it has changed from where you could have a city then another only one space gap between, now you forced to have two spaces and the upkeep does make it harder. but obviously you still need t obuidl more citys to win, it is an empire building game not a one citybuilding game.. more ccitys = biger empire.....
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More cities = less money to spend on tech = bigger backwards empire = you lose.
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not true at all.. every game i played so far i have had many more cities than the AI and stil lheld a huge Tech lead.
It is a matter of balance, building your econmy buildings and science building etc...
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GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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December 15, 2005, 16:52
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#200
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Deity
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Perhaps it's hardcoded how many cities it tries to get vs. how much income it has?
I know that I'll get advice to build a settler when I become economically powerful, even if I have no place left to put it!
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yes this to me is a bug the yneed to remove. no point it asking to build settlers when the world is full.
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GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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December 15, 2005, 17:06
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#201
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Deity
Local Time: 11:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rasputin
not true at all.. every game i played so far i have had many more cities than the AI and stil lheld a huge Tech lead.
It is a matter of balance, building your econmy buildings and science building etc...
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Exactly. Which is why ICS is dead.
First and formost is the fact that more cities being better has nothing to do with ICS, and second is the fact that more cities aren't necessarily better in Civ4.
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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December 15, 2005, 17:13
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#202
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Deity
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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yes i think we agree on this...
ICS as it was known is DEAD
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GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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December 15, 2005, 17:53
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#203
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Warlord
Local Time: 09:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 134
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1st of all... Holy Necropost Batman!!!
On "topic" --- as this is originally a Civ3 thread ----
ICS is changed significantly as to be unrecognizeable... but it ain't DEAD...
Case in point --- watch how the AI plays... It's spamming settlers like mad, trying to claim every bit of unclaimed land in its purview... If the PLAYER doesn't "ICS" (in the Civ4 manner, of course), then you'll get cut off and have to engage in an expensive war for territory...
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Populus vult decipi, ergo decipiatur
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December 15, 2005, 20:19
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#204
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Deity
Local Time: 11:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 21,822
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Rasputin
yes i think we agree on this...
ICS as it was known is DEAD
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As opposed to the ICS we didn't know?
__________________
[Obama] is either a troll or has no ****ing clue how government works - GePap
Later amendments to the Constitution don't supersede earlier amendments - GePap
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December 15, 2005, 21:03
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#205
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Deity
Local Time: 01:40
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: Between Coast and Mountains
Posts: 14,475
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meaning as in being a sleaze of size one cities ...
Now you have to Spam out many cities but make sure you put all the right building in them too.
__________________
GM of MAFIA #40 ,#41, #43, #45,#47,#49-#51,#53-#58,#61,#68,#70, #71
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December 15, 2005, 21:46
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#206
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Warlord
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 145
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ICS was possible because of buildings that provided flat bonuses. More cities meant more bonuses. Since nearly all of the Civ4 buildings provide +% bonuses instead (exceptions being culture buildings, the Palace, and the holy shrines), increasing cities without increasing the amount of land exploited doesn't accomplish anything.
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December 21, 2005, 16:06
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#207
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Settler
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
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I don't like the use of uindeveloped cities for military advantage but I dislike artificial means to keep the number of cities down even more. I like to build as many cities as possible but i include as many unshared squares as possible into them and I fully develop them. Usually by having every improvement posiible built. On larger maps I think the same amount of civilizations with more cities makes as much sense as having more civilizations on them.
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December 21, 2005, 16:14
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#208
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Settler
Local Time: 15:40
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 8
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Part 2
civ 4 way of handling ICS I totally hate because it works against the way I like to play. I think the penalties for cities should be if you go over what I would call your fair share of cities but believe this would take a total reastructuring of the A1. The fair share would be the amount of squares on the map multiplied by the percentage of land tiles divided by the number of civilizations and divided by 21(sqs in the city radius). This number could be 40 or 50 so research and other facrors would probably need to be adjusted. A city won by conquest should be a free city not part of this equation even if razed.
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December 21, 2005, 19:42
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#209
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Emperor
Local Time: 01:40
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,988
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I like upkeep costs. At least it's easy to calculate, and you will hopefully be able to get a readout of how much your income would take a hit when you build a settler (in the next patch, of course).
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