Russian Speakers?

[The Andy-Man]

I am gonna start learning russian in febuary, and I think i could do with some advice, mainly relating to case, declension and verbs. Anything would be usefull.


Also, where can I download a load of cyrillic fonts for XP?


thank you :

[Nubclear]

http://masterrussian.net/

[Zero]

da

[The Andy-Man]

thx tassadar!

'da?' only russian word i know, that, niet and vodka

[Pekka]

I know RUKI VEER! which is not the correct way to type it, but it means 'hands up!'. The only one you need to know when dealing with the commies

[Immortal Wombat]

gdyé moy vyelsipyed?

[Namaste]

zdravstvuyte Andy-Man

Good thing to be aware of when just starting Russian lessons is the differences between the stressed and unstressed sounds certain letters make. Notably "o" (stressed sounds like you would expect o to sound like but unstressed can sound more like an "a") and "e" (stressed sounds like "ye", unstressed sounds more like latin "e" or "i") come to mind. There are a few letters which are rather unconventional to an english speaker like the soft signs, the short "I", and the "I" which looks sort of like "bI" that creates a sound I'm really not entirely sure how to render into the latin alphabet.

Once you get a handle on reading and writing the alphabet, it should be relatively straightforward, or at least it was for me. You'll most likely do all of your writing in cursive cyrillic which is good since it's much easier than printing. Oh, and Russian has no real equivalent for "is", "are" and such.

verbs conjugation is fairly straightforward for the most part

zhit - to live
(I)Ia zhivu
(You)Ti zhiviosh
He/She/It - Neuter)On/a/o zhiviot
(We)Mi zhiviom
(You formal) Vi zhiviote
(They)Oni zhivut

znat - to know
(I) Ia znayu
(You)Ti znaesh
(He/She/It-Neuter) On/a/o znaet
(We) Mi znaem
(You formal) Vi znaete
(They) Oni znayut

The first case you will learn will probably be the prepositional, followed by the accusative.

Prepositional is when you say something like I am in something or on something usually (it has other purposes to)

Example, I am in Moscow
You add preposition v and change the a in Moskva to an e, it becomes - "Ia v Moskve"

It is on the table.
Add preposition"na" (on) and add "e" to the end of stol (table) - "On na stole"

The accusative is a bit more complex with animates and such, but getting into that now would probably only confuse you. The prepositional gives you a good idea of how the cases function without it getting too confusing.

[Pekka]

And to anyone wondering, I was only joking.





... it goes to hippies as well!

[The Andy-Man]

Originally posted by Namaste
zdravstvuyte Andy-Man

Good thing to be aware of when just starting Russian lessons is the differences between the stressed and unstressed sounds certain letters make. Notably "o" (stressed sounds like you would expect o to sound like but unstressed can sound more like an "a") and "e" (stressed sounds like "ye", unstressed sounds more like latin "e" or "i") come to mind. There are a few letters which are rather unconventional to an english speaker like the soft signs, the short "I", and the "I" which looks sort of like "bI" that creates a sound I'm really not entirely sure how to render into the latin alphabet.

Once you get a handle on reading and writing the alphabet, it should be relatively straightforward, or at least it was for me. You'll most likely do all of your writing in cursive cyrillic which is good since it's much easier than printing. Oh, and Russian has no real equivalent for "is", "are" and such.

verbs conjugation is fairly straightforward for the most part

zhit - to live
(I)Ia zhivu
(You)Ti zhiviosh
He/She/It - Neuter)On/a/o zhiviot
(We)Mi zhiviote
(They)Oni zhivut

znat - to know
(I) Ia znayu
(You)Ti znaesh
(He/She/It-Neuter) On/a/o znaet
(We) Mi znaem
(You formal) Vi znaete
(They) Oni znayut

The first case you will learn will probably be the prepositional, followed by the accusative.

Prepositional is when you say something like I am in something or on something usually (it has other purposes to)

Example, I am in Moscow
You add preposition v and change the a in Moskva to an e, it becomes - "Ia v Moskve"

It is on the table.
Add preposition"na" (on) and add "e" to the end of stol (table) - "On na stole"

The accusative is a bit more complex with animates and such, but getting into that now would probably only confuse you. The prepositional gives you a good idea of how the cases function without it getting too confusing.

thanks, this has made it a bit easier i think. Presumably then, russian uses a seperate word for the do-er (you, he, she, I ) as well as a conjugation? Is it always like this?

as for lack of 'is' and 'are,' i guess that these words are implied by the position of the nouns and so on (ie. the girls [are] good).

As for case, I think i can manage them as i already understand (from another language) the principles of nominative, genitive, dative, accusative and vocative. But i would like to know if each case has a seperate definate article, and weather it means that the placing of words in relation to each other in a sentance are open to the authors discretion (ie. dogs chase cats is the same as cats chase dogs and so on, purley because the case has already stated who is doing and receiveing etc)?

thx again!

[Namaste]

I included the do-ers in the conjugation. Ia (I), Ti (You), On (He/masculine It), Ona (She/feminine It), Ono (Neuter It), Mi (We), Vi (You formal/plural), and Oni (They). Sorry if the way I wrote it before was misleading.

And yep, you're right. The "is" and "are" are implied by position.

Russian has no definite articles. In that sentence Dogs would be in the nominative, and cats in the accusative, showing what the subject "dogs" is doing to the direct object "cats". It should give flexibility in the placement of those words in the sentence to have the same meaning (Russian is fairly lax about that in general), but I'm not entirely sure how proper it would be. I'm only a student of the language myself so maybe if there are any native speakers around they can clarify that.

Anyway, have fun studying. It's a great language and I've fallen in love with it over the time I've been studying it.

[The Andy-Man]

how long have you been studying it?

incidentaly, if there is no definate article, is there an indefinate? And how would one emphasise something? (the boat, as apposed to a boat)??

[Namaste]

Only about a year with instruction, but I've been doing a bit on my own for longer than that. I also have some familiarity with Croatian which is a bit similar in a lot of ways.

Russian does not use any articles so that kind of emphasis doesn't really exist. It's more understood by context and situation.

Also, on my first post, I had something of a continuity error and botched the first set of conjugations. I went back and edited, but not quickly enough for when you replied.

[The Andy-Man]

ok, thanks alot!

[St Leo]

Originally posted by Pekka
I know RUKI VEER! which is not the correct way to type it, but it means 'hands up!'. The only one you need to know when dealing with the commies

Ruki vverh.

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat
gdyé moy vyelsipyed?

Prover svoyu zadnitsu.

[pchang]

When in doubt, mumble.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by St Leo

Quote:

Originally posted by Immortal Wombat gdyé moy vyelsipyed?

Prover svoyu zadnitsu.

Unless that means "the giant shrimp ate it", then I think you are incorrect.

[The Vagabond]

Good mastering of Russian, Namaste

Originally posted by Namaste
And yep, you're right. The "is" and "are" are implied by position.

True. But sometimes "est'" is used for "is" or "are". For example:
Kto est' kto = Who is who
Eto i est' tot samyy chelovek.

Russian has no definite articles. In that sentence Dogs would be in the nominative, and cats in the accusative, showing what the subject "dogs" is doing to the direct object "cats". It should give flexibility in the placement of those words in the sentence to have the same meaning (Russian is fairly lax about that in general), but I'm not entirely sure how proper it would be. I'm only a student of the language myself so maybe if there are any native speakers around they can clarify that.

You are right. "Dogs chase cats" can be said in the following ways:

1) Sobaki gonyayut koshek.
2) Koshek gonyayut sobaki.

The first form is the standard one. The second form somehow accentuates the word "sobaki" (especially in the written text!), and perhaps should be translated something like "it is dogs that chase cats", or "cats are chased by dogs". It answers the question "Who is that bastard who chases cats?".

On the other hand, note that in the oral speech any word can be accentuated by intonation already in the standard form. And the same is true for the second form.

However, in a poetic context (imagine you write a poem) the second form would be equivalent to the first one. Furthermore, in a poem, practically any placing of words is acceptable, even the one that may sound awkward in the ordinary speech.

3) Gonyayut sobaki koshek.
4) Sobaki koshek gonyayut.
The third form would be appropriate as an answer to the question "Whom do the dogs chase?". The fourth form would answer the question "What do dogs do to cats?".

Other forms are possible too.

Thus, it is the last word that is usually meant to be accentuated in the written text (except for the standard form). However, when you speak, intonation can override this. In a poem, the placing of words is rather arbitrary.

I hope this is not too confusing and I am not confused myself


PS1. "Cats chase dogs" would be "koshki gonyayut sobak" (cf. form 2 above).

PS2. By the way, perhaps it would be better to say "sobaki gonyayutsya za koshkami", "za koshkami gonyayutsya sobaki", etc. But I chose a form that doesn't involve the preposition "za".

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by The Andy-Man
incidentaly, if there is no definate article, is there an indefinate? And how would one emphasise something? (the boat, as apposed to a boat)??

If there is a real need to emphasize that, then you can say "this/that boat", "one boat", "some boat".

[The Emperor Fabulous]

Here's the only Russian I know

Vodka - Life

[Napoleon I]

Good luck Andy-Man!

I may somewhat biased but I really love Russian as a language - I think once you get into it, the beauty will pull you along.

The definite and indefinite articles do not exist in Russian, but their absense is somewhat compensated by rather generous use of demonstratives (such as this/that/which etot/tot/kotoriy etc.) And, as had been mentioned, word placement is the major vehicle of emphasis.

Generally speaking verbs tend to be somewhat harder, especially if you already understand the noun declension system. I would focus more heavily on the verbs and variaties of their meaning - subjunctive, completed vs continuing aspect and so on. But don't let the details overcome you It'll all come together.

I speak Russian fluently, so if you have any questions, feel free to contact me.

Udachi (good luck)

[The Vagabond]

Great to see lovers of the Russian language around, Napoleon I

The definite and indefinite articles do not exist in Russian, but their absense is somewhat compensated by rather generous use of demonstratives (such as this/that/which etot/tot/kotoriy etc.)

You are right in using the word "somewhat". The absence of the articles can be compensated only partly.

[The Vagabond]

A useful demonstrative for substituting "the" could be "tot samyy".

Ta samaya lodka = that same boat

[The Vagabond]

To the discussion of "is" and "are" in the Russian language. Clinton's famous "it depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is" can't be translated into Russian.

[Napoleon I]

Well, the difference in the usage of 'is' and 'are' is more a question of semantics in my mind. There is a word that formally means is - est, but it is not used the same way. You could theoretically say "What is life" "Chto est zhizn" but it would sound awkward. Generally the state of being is implied rather than said, as in "On visokiy" "He tall" which means, of course, "he is tall". But, on mature reflection, that is a rather minute detail for a person who is just starting out Doubtlessly he is already or

[Sikander]

Russian is a highly inflected language that doesn't use articles. High inflection is tough for an English speaker, as we only use inflection in our pronouns (I, me) and only have two cases compared to the six in Russian. No articles is IMO an advantage, as they rarely do much but take up space and confuse students of the language in question. One interesting aspect of a highly inflected langauge (as Vagabond gives a good example of) is that it doesn't rely on word order to define the parts of speech in a sentence. Inflection and the form of the verb do all of that for you. This means that word order can be used in a variety of ways to impart slightly different meanings, or even to make the sentence more melodic. Finally, the difference in the usage of the verb "to be" in English and Russian is that the Russians don't use it nearly as much as a helping verb (ie verb compounds).

[muxec]

"Fignya" - wery useful word that can mean almost everything

[Saras]

Alternatively, xuynya.

[The Vagabond]

Saras as impolite as always

[Saras]

Ebal

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Pekka
I know RUKI VEER! which is not the correct way to type it, but it means 'hands up!'. The only one you need to know when dealing with the commies

another useful one I learned in the army is STOY!! it means freeze! (I think).