Beta Patch 1.13 Released

Micaelis Rex · January 6, 2004, 23:57

Get it from this thread.

v1.13 BETA
* Fixed Random Civ MP Launch OOS
* Adjusted Corruption Calculations
Capitals (Palace, FP, SPHQ) have very little corruption
Max Corruption is now 90%
FP & SPHQ now give 50% more cities to your optimal city count (This makes it extremely valuable to the AI)
* Secret Police HQ no longer gives effects when player leaves Communism
* Updated Civilopedia.txt Forbidden Palace to explain that all cities are still affected by distance from the Real Capital.
* Fixed Credit Typos

asleepathewheel · January 7, 2004, 00:15

sweet

Inverse Icarus · January 7, 2004, 00:16

now i have to make everyone patch all the PBEMs... AGAIN!

Kuciwalker · January 7, 2004, 00:18

Quote:

Max Corruption is now 90%

Now, all you need to do is make this apply to the "real" corruption value... making courthouses et al a lot more effective without actually upping their effects.

SirOsis · January 7, 2004, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Uber KruX

now i have to make everyone patch all the PBEMs... AGAIN!

I don't think it matters. I'm pretty sure I've played PBEMs with the 1.0 version and loaded 1.12 games.

Another patch. Most excellent!

Dominae · January 7, 2004, 00:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Micaelis Rex

FP & SPHQ now give 50% more cities to your optimal city count (This makes it extremely valuable to the AI)

This is weird. Of course it succeeds in reducing Corruption, but it helps the human a lot more than the AI, since human players on average build a lot more cities. I'm trying to figure out why this was thrown in...

Dominae

vmxa1 · January 7, 2004, 00:28

Party on.

Wittlich · January 7, 2004, 00:46

Is this real? And I'm sorry, but I've never heard of cdgroup.org

For those of us who are paranoid, do we have any word as to the validity of this patch from the Apolyton management?

Wittlich · January 7, 2004, 00:48

Besides, the Firaxis web site makes no mention of this patch as far as I can tell...

Micaelis Rex · January 7, 2004, 00:56

CDGroup is a legit site, it is the home of the best Civ3 modding community there is. It took part of the ISDG, and is organizing the C3C ISDG. And the patch was released by Tavis, who said that anyone may download it. Hope that clears things up a bit.

Wittlich · January 7, 2004, 01:02

Ah, OK. Fair enough (Thanks for the clarification Micaelis)... but my question is this: Is it supported by Firaxis? If it isn't then legally it is not a legal "patch" but rather a form of a mod to the game. Can you clarify this point? Thanks.

Micaelis Rex · January 7, 2004, 01:03

It is a beta patch, so no it isn't official per se. Though it is an official beta patch.

ducki · January 7, 2004, 01:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae

This is weird. Of course it succeeds in reducing Corruption, but it helps the human a lot more than the AI, since human players on average build a lot more cities. I'm trying to figure out why this was thrown in...

Dominae

Assuming one of the reasons the AI floundered in the late game and had trouble going for domination was it's preference to stay below (or even relatively near) the OCN, maybe we'll see more AIs getting bigger and doing it faster?

Humans seem much better at fighting, or at least working around, corruption than the AI - we can already have vast, sprawling empires where even super-ultra-mega corrupt cities are contributing to the empire in the way of taxmen and scientists. The AI can't compete here, so maybe less corruption for human and AI will benefit the AI at least as much as the human.

Additionally, with the AI's notoriously bad FP placement, this could help them more than it helps the human, since distance corruption still applies. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but this actually seems to me to remove some of the human advantage that came with optimal FP placement and palace moves and such.

Of course, I could be wrong.

Edit: I wonder if that +50% comes before or after the Commercial-trait boost in the calculation order...

Edit2: Downloaded and installed. No strange alerts from Zone Alarm and the version number on the main screen is now 1.13, so it's either legit or a very good fake. I vote for legit.

Theseus · January 7, 2004, 02:52

Well, first off, GODDARNIT I LOVE FIRAXIS / BREAKAWAY!!

arty:

Bbut I gotta throw this in: What are we doing wrong here at 'poly that we are not the center, the source, the home of all things true and good when for Civ3?

AArrgghh.

But again, kudos to the developers!

Jaybe · January 7, 2004, 03:39

Quote:

Is this real? And I'm sorry, but I've never heard of cdgroup.org

Wittlich, are you trying to say you have never even investigated the Double Your Pleasure (DyP) mod???

cdgroup.org is a good place to go to investigate it. The actual DyP mod is HERE. DyP is not for C3C, they are doing the C3C mod under the name of Rise and Rule.

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 04:48

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaybe
DyP is not for C3C, they are doing the C3C mod under the name of Rise and Rule.

Ooh thanks for this info, Jaybe - I would have doubtless gone crazy looking for DyP for C3C sometime otherwise.

I guess they must be pretty happy that multiple FPs are now in C3C - must make it easier to implement.

Fatwreck · January 7, 2004, 06:43

does it take one turn to re-calculate the corruption in saved-games after you installed this version like with the other one?

edit: BTW good that they took this back:

Quote:

* Adjusted Corruption Calculations Capitals (Palace, FP, SPHQ) have very little corruption

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 08:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Fatwreck
does it take one turn to re-calculate the corruption in saved-games after you installed this version like with the other one?

edit: BTW good that they took this back:

HA! That's rather debatable. However it sure means they are listening to criticism and responding. Maybe they are even reading this right now.....

Cheers again guys! And I had no qualms with corruption in the first release or the Beta.

alexman · January 7, 2004, 09:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Micaelis Rex
FP & SPHQ now give 50% more cities to your optimal city count (This makes it extremely valuable to the AI)

Since the FP no longer provides a second core for city rank purposes, this would have been a great idea restore some of the power of our beloved FP, not only for humans (as it was in PTW), but also for the AI.

However, it's not working. The OCN increase in 1.13 is still just 10%.

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 09:36

Well I can certainly tell you loading a pre-patch game in the new version does not automatically update corruption figures - you need to force a recalculation (which was common sense anyway).

But as to the effects of corruption as changed from v1.12 I am not yet certain. My only savegames I have from C3C v1.00 and v1.12 that are far enough along to show the effect markedly are ones where the FP is very poorly placed for testing purposes...

Can someone with a save from v1.00 with well-placed FP and Palace (ie somwhat distant from each other), please show us screenshots of a city and its corruption in each of the three patches please? That would be the best way to make some quick comparisons between the three - excepting the appearance of one of alexman's all-exposing articles on corruption, that is

Alex · January 7, 2004, 09:41

hm, is this the January 10th update that Jesse mentioned some time ago? if it is, i might download it. but i want to read other players's opinions on it before.

Cookie Monster · January 7, 2004, 09:57

I think I'll wait until there is a final version of a patch from Atari/Firaxis or whoever is the official maker of C3C before I dl any patches. Haven't even tried 1.12beta yet as I prefer a finalized version.

Alex · January 7, 2004, 10:11

Also, do I have to install the previous beta patches before this one? Seems like some players are having problems trying to install it without the previous beta patches.

MrWhereItsAt · January 7, 2004, 10:20

OK, I have just done a little test with my not-great-for-testing game. I have loaded a save from the modern era (so lots of trade + waste to see) in each version of the game. Here is what I found. I will post screenies if you like later, but it would take ages to do so right now on my dialup.

I looked at the waste/corruption in three cities - Buto, a city between 10 and 15 tiles from the FP and further from the capital, Thebes, a city 20+ tiles from the FP and far from the Palace, and Heraclea, a city about 10 tiles from the Palace, and far from the FP.

Buto

Version Waste Corruption
1.00 20/40 26/76
1.12 19/40 25/76
1.13 18/40 22/76

Thebes

Version Waste Corruption
1.00 21/23 51/55
1.12 19/23 51/55
1.13 16/23 48/55

Heraclea
Version Waste Corruption
1.00 6/27 14/63
1.12 3/27 9/63
1.13 Screenshot went crazy - grrr!

It seems that there is an improvement in all three cases, with the best being the new patch.

Also, I noted down the values for GNP, Mfg, Productivity and the amount lost to corruption.

Code:

Version    Mfg Goods    GNP    Prod    Lost to Corruption
1.00           588        2776    2549    1075
1.12           631        2777    2622    1046
1.13           686        2831    2837    940

As you can see from the above, despite the improvements in all my test cases, for v1.12 there is almost a perfectly compensating INCREASE in corruption for some other cities, but waste is overall reduced. For v1.13, however, although I saw the corruption and waste in some cities increase when I recalculated from v1.00, overall there is a good decrease of both overall.

I'm not sure what you can really glean from my awful example, but it seems to me from my observations that the FP in v1.13 has a wider-ranging effect now - that although the corruption in cities very near the FP may increase, the corruption in distant cities decreases considerably.

Apolgoies if the formatting of the above doesn't work - I have not successfully managed to get the code thing to work yet.

ducki · January 7, 2004, 11:02

CookieMonster - IIRC, the official, final patch isn't due for a few months.
Alex - from the post at CDGroup, this is an add-on patch to 1.12, so yes, you need to patch from 1.00 to 1.12 to 1.13 according to the post.

HTH,
ducki

DrSpike · January 7, 2004, 11:15

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman

Since the FP no longer provides a second core for city rank purposes, this would have been a great idea restore some of the power of our beloved FP, not only for humans (as it was in PTW), but also for the AI.

However, it's not working. The OCN increase in 1.13 is still just 10%.

10%?

It's great that they are letting us see the unfinished article, but I'd like to see a statement of direction from Firaxis on this...........the FP implementation seems to lurch around somewhat haphazardly.

I got the impression from previous posts that they wanted the FP to provide a second core for rank purposes, and that the 1.12 style FP was temporary. The 1.13 is a supercharged 1.12, and not very supercharged if it is indeed only a 10% increase in the OCN. Alexman is usually right, so I'm concerned.

I don't really have too much against a weaker FP, but is this the way Firaxis wants it? Is it going to stay in this vein with perhaps small tweaks? Or are they going to revert to it providing a second core for rank calculation purposes?

Please respond if possible Jesse.

smellymummy · January 7, 2004, 11:20

why didn't anyone from firaxis release this? seems weird..

DrSpike · January 7, 2004, 11:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Dominae

This is weird. Of course it succeeds in reducing Corruption, but it helps the human a lot more than the AI, since human players on average build a lot more cities. I'm trying to figure out why this was thrown in...

Dominae

Well any boost to the FP will probably help the humans more than the AI..........this one is probably the best bet in relative terms since it doesn't matter where you put the FP.

vmxa1 · January 7, 2004, 12:32

The thinking is that by increasing the ocn, the AI will be helped.

Alex · January 7, 2004, 12:56

Quote:

Originally posted by ducki

Alex - from the post at CDGroup, this is an add-on patch to 1.12, so yes, you need to patch from 1.00 to 1.12 to 1.13 according to the post.

Thanks for the info, ducki.