tolerant discussion

[Whoha]

In closing, +2 Prod,cyber,tol is fun, but not as good as tol/uni/prod.

[Garth Vader]

I would have thought by this time we'd be trying more fun races rather than always the "best" race.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Whoha


but not also the ship repair, which is very spiffy. Also you don't get the less need for food for colonization.

I don't have much need of either. By the time I start to spread out, food is not an issue and the small aid from cyber for ship repair is not going to make a difference.

How often does the AI bust one of your ships?

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Garth Vader
I would have thought by this time we'd be trying more fun races rather than always the "best" race.

We are, I would think. None the less we get off on tangents.

[Croesus]

How often does the AI bust one of your ships?

Often enough. I must not be that good, because when I attack after getting deutrium fuel cells with a few lasers blazing and lots of nukes flying, the AI has nukes and a missile base. Since I always thought that deutrium fuel cells were more important early game than tritanium, it means that I was losing BattleShips with a reinforece hull to normal nukes. With the regeneration a battle ship could take 7 nukes a turn.

+1 prod helps more on abundant to poor worlds. If you play cyb-tol-unif it means that a poor world is a trap. However, for rich worlds you get 10% less. The biggest advantage is in the ability to repair a ship during combat, mostly against planets because the defender can't retreat. Cyber could use the reduced population needed for food on research. All in all, I think that if you play cyber, you should be tolerant, and make your populations on planets even instead of odd.

For some strange reason I fail to see the advantage of a the higher production gained by +1p LHW. Building a Bship in 2 turns is nice (ultrarich huge terran planet), but you saturate your capacity quite quickly, then you tax and stall your new worlds. Part/most/all of your fleet gets destroyed by something, then you rebuild and redeploy. Depending on the size this could take a few turns. Therfore, it might be better in a game to make your ships longer lasting, sort of the quality versus quanitity.

[Garth Vader]

What he said. Also if I am not creative the repair on a SB makes planets a lot easier to defend against antarans.

In early game fights cyber is gold!

[vmxa1]

I never had any trouble with Anties. They seem to go for the AI for the first 4 or 5 times they show up. After that it is too late for them to be effective.

Except for games when I use tele blitz races, I tend to not go after any combat with early ships. I like to get a few and park them over new systems and build up to a star base. Once I get 5 or 6 ships, I take out Orion and never look back.

I may run into a big fight now and then and even lose a ship or two, but by then I don't care. I will be replacing them quickly and the fight will be the end of the line for that race.

What I am saying is the rare case were a plus 10 to my ship will save the battle is pretty rare and is not going to last all that long. So I spend those picks for a vary small window. I mean in the end you can play any number of ways and win.

[Garth Vader]

The AI almost always declares war around the time I can get my first cruiser out. I can't avoid fighting because they always send ships my way and if I don't have MB the battles are tough.

[Whoha]

cyber is extremely useful in small galaxies where you run into alot of those early fights.

[vmxa1]

Yes a small map can get you into more combat. I sometimes run into situations where I cannot defeat their ships very early. I simply do not fight them and they either blockade until I can defeat them or they foolishly attack me at the HW with its starbase and die. I won't have MB unless I am playing a creative race.

All I am saying Whoha is I have played 100's of games and never needed Cyber. I played with it a bit a long time back and like many traits you can use it, but so what? There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games.

[P-K]

vmxa1:
"There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games."

True !

PK

[Croesus]

There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games.

Just because something is unpopular, doesn't mean it isn't good in the right hands. Is the strategy in MoO2 not diverse enough for cyber to be effective by certain players in certain conditions?

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

vmxa1, congratulations on your 10,000th post a while ago.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Yes a small map can get you into more combat. I sometimes run into situations where I cannot defeat their ships very early. I simply do not fight them and they either blockade until I can defeat them or they foolishly attack me at the HW with its starbase and die. I won't have MB unless I am playing a creative race.

But then you will lose colonies because the AI always has transports.

Most of the time I am able to trade for MB before it gets to be too much of a problem, but you are usually repulsive.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by Croesus

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

I doubt it, my experience is also from a LAN and it was incredibly slow. One game there was 3 of us and we played for like 6 hours, finally got to the good part and then it would crash if combat took more than 1 round so the whole day was toast. I never wanted to try MP again after that!

[P-K]

Originally posted by Croesus

Just because something is unpopular, doesn't mean it isn't good in the right hands. Is the strategy in MoO2 not diverse enough for cyber to be effective by certain players in certain conditions?

I haven't played Multiplayer. I would assume the best place is Kali. How long does a game take? When I played it on a LAN without a patch, the between time in turns was long. It seemed strange that it would need so much time on a closed LAN (only 4 computers hooked to it, no internet or other connections), and only 2 computers were being on. The router was also a switching router, meaning if two computers were communicating exclusively, it would optimize their connection. MoO2 was slow. Was this fixed in subsequent patches?

Finally right questions ! Kali is having alot of moo newbies lately ! Mostly GERMAN players. Here my answers :

1. Cyber is really not effective in mp games on kali. It is a rare pick to find in player`s races. I repeat once again : cyber takes around -1 prod and another 1 prod from 4 picks. So it is -2 prod to tol prod. It is a deadly distance. Hard to overcome.

2. Games on kali takes from 2 hours to 16 h. Most games are ended in 4-6 h. Large map 1v1 is most popular here.

3. Moo is slow ? Ofcourse it is ! U play windows version. Dos is several times faster ! Our new xp patch ables to play dos moo under windows xp at kali.

PK

[GePap]

You guys are way more hardcore than I am-I don't play to win fastest, I simply play to create a huge empire, and get the ego trip of running it....

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Croesus

Just because something is unpopular, doesn't mean it isn't good in the right hands. Is the strategy in MoO2 not diverse enough for cyber to be effective by certain players in certain conditions?


vmxa1, congratulations on your 10,000th post a while ago.

Yes and I said you can win with many flavors. After all you can with with no picks. Also it can be fun to play with it at times in SP games. I do not play as a Unitol all that much. I like to mix things up.


Thanks, it is hard to believe I wasted that much time, I mean spent that much time on the board.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by GePap
You guys are way more hardcore than I am-I don't play to win fastest, I simply play to create a huge empire, and get the ego trip of running it....

I like to just mess around at times as well. I often will cruise through some of the old Newsgroup post to find a race to play that someone else talked about, just to do something different. I do not want to play the same way every game.

I think it is great to have players post up a game or race to talk about or test. Just because I may ppush for a point, don't take it that I so not appreciate the others. I just like to see if may I need to change, maybe they can convince me. It is just a debate, no losers or winners.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Garth Vader


But then you will lose colonies because the AI always has transports.

Most of the time I am able to trade for MB before it gets to be too much of a problem, but you are usually repulsive.

Yeah, I can't trade in most games. It is just a handicap I like to play with.

I have not seen them bring transports at that stage, but it would not matter as they must defeat you starbase before they can land them.

[Whoha]

Originally posted by vmxa1
Yes a small map can get you into more combat. I sometimes run into situations where I cannot defeat their ships very early. I simply do not fight them and they either blockade until I can defeat them or they foolishly attack me at the HW with its starbase and die. I won't have MB unless I am playing a creative race.

All I am saying Whoha is I have played 100's of games and never needed Cyber. I played with it a bit a long time back and like many traits you can use it, but so what? There is a reason why it is not among the list of top races played, it is inferior. That you can win with is true, but only in SP games.

I never said you needed it, only that it has its value, and that its fun to mess around with.

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by vmxa1

I have not seen them bring transports at that stage, but it would not matter as they must defeat you starbase before they can land them.

Really, I see them all the time. It's usually the colonies I have problems with, before I get a SB built.

[Croesus]

But then you will lose colonies because the AI always has transports.

I tried the cyber race out. The super production race could only be better for getting things out quickly. The AI can't use transports because with this race you essentially can have more industry than you can use. Most new colonies would have a starbase in a 10 turns, by freighting other workers from other colonies.

I found this race quite powerful. But as vmxa1 said, I prefer to play others because they are more entertaining. After quite a bit of research, if you are playing an average to young galaxy, then this race will have more production at the begining. During mid game, it had more than a creative aquatic test race with atmosphere renewers,pollution processors, and nano dissassemblers.

However a small note: you can't research polloution technologies. This is only useful if you plan on taking other races colonies and using them as slaves. Otherwise these slave colonies are most effectively used as farming worlds. Since on impossible you are going to find an aquatic race, or one with +1 food, then it is even more natural to use them as farmers. They get the unification bonus even as slaves. The game I played with the production race had klackons with +1 food and aquatic. I bred them just to be farmers.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Whoha


I never said you needed it, only that it has its value, and that its fun to mess around with.

Sounds fair to me.

[vmxa1]

Originally posted by Garth Vader


Really, I see them all the time. It's usually the colonies I have problems with, before I get a SB built.

The reason I don't see them is because I will not colonize or capture a planet until I can hold it. So if I colonize one, it is safely out of reach or I have enough shipping to defend it.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by Brutalisk
PK, while you are very competitive, you got a set strategy. That strategy bud, DOES have weaknesses

The fact that you keep working on your strategies though atleast tells me that unlike msot other kali-players, you can actually "adapt"...


In my recent return there, I noticed everyone following the same formula (esp in duels). A good formula yes, but the kali-players seem to have turned into a "stale" community in that respect with some exceptions...

i wish more people would play multiplayer moo2 ;o

[siron]

Dunnagan,

have u played online (kali)?

If yes, whats your kali-nick?

(BTW, I dont think that Brutalisk is right here. There are only some freaks who always want to play without wormholes (large galaxy and mostly even 1v1). In this case....Brutal is right..there are only a few races you can play...and that is boring.)

[Brutalisk]

Siron: nice to see more kali players around, but I would say the three other players who are as adventurous as I am, are RedDog, Druzhio and Moohelper (and where is moohelper? haven't seen him for ages)


Dunnagan: there is quite a bit of multiplayer moo game going on..

[Dunnagan]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Iasius
The only time I will use tolerant is when I'm also lithovore. Just makes for awesome expansion early and combined with research labs on so many worlds you can even be good techwise.

theoretically sure, but theres always those couple techs you miss as an uncreative race. even if you are pumping 50 spies into their ass, you still won't get it half the time.

this is why I will always pick creative.

[Dunnagan]

Originally posted by siron
Dunnagan,

have u played online (kali)?

If yes, whats your kali-nick?

(BTW, I dont think that Brutalisk is right here. There are only some freaks who always want to play without wormholes (large galaxy and mostly even 1v1). In this case....Brutal is right..there are only a few races you can play...and that is boring.)

a very long time ago I played Warcraft 2 on Kali, my nick was 'Dunnagan'. those were the days! War2 is god IMO

I tried to get a game going on kali a couple nights ago.

found the moo2 channel ,

When I clicked join internet game in Moo2, it didn't theoretically 'freeze', but I couldn't do anything and had to back out via task manager.

[Dunnagan]

Why i haven't played games like civ ii and iii? Well , lack of time to sit down and explore new games. [/QUOTE]

trust me, you aren't missing much.

I love strategy stuff, but Civ2/Civ3 have a certain repetitiveness that Moo2 does not have. to be honest I like playing civ2 more Multiplayer, because no matter how fast your computer is, with Civ3 theres lag with every single click in a multiplayer game. sometimes you click four or five times when it doesnt respond, making the lag worse.

the techs feel as if they are paper. they arent applied to the gameplay as well as moo2's are, (probably because you can't design stuff)

I hereby declare moo2 the king of all computer and console strategy games. (except for the shitty network coding, doom2's network coding was better i think)