tolerant discussion - Page 5

siron · July 5, 2004, 04:53

Brutal: "but I would say the three other players who are as adventurous as I am, are..."

hmmm....difficult to measure "how adventurous a kali-player is" but....

i guess u have missed some well known veterans there....

i like to play against your above-mentioned players...but

with respect to "adventurous" only 4381 is above average for me....

1. There are many players who would play ANY setup (with tactical combat of course). Those players who prefer to play without wormholes (or only 1v1s)...
(eliminates the blitz races...and prod races are too strong if they dont have to care about blitz imo)
...are not very adventurous for me. AFAIK red and druz for example prefers nowh games but i have to admit that they tried some "weak non-prod races" there.

2. I would measure it with respect to his race repertoire. Zirkahn tries a lot of races. Sky plays a lot of races (if there are whs). Have you ever played against dirt-bag for example? His blitz-experience sounds pretty adventurous for me:

http://www.masteroforion2.com/dirt-bag/blitz.htm

(I tried most of his races and created some too...)

And btw....dirt-bag would even play strategic combat. So he is clearly the most-adventurous player for me.

siron · July 5, 2004, 04:59

"When I clicked join internet game in Moo2, it didn't theoretically 'freeze', but I couldn't do anything and had to back out via task manager."

U mean the "frozen init network-screen"? That is the common error if you have chosen the wrong installation on your moo2-cd. If you want play the dos-version (orion2.exe) online choose INSTALL.EXE!!! (not setup.exe or the autorun install. it also installs orion2.exe but it wont run properly.)

Dunnagan · July 5, 2004, 06:06

[QUOTE] Originally posted by Brutalisk
Well, let's take the tech tree as one of the many big flaws.

In Alpha Centauri, despite copying civilization, the techs lost their shine. There's 1000000000000000000000000 techs that offer no real significance. I love complexity but only NECESSARY complexity that adds to the game. I like DETAIL but only detail that ADDS to the game.

Alpha Centauri went too far. Upgrading the units became like nuisance if anything.

------------

agreed. AC is a complete piece of ****. a voice coming on every time I get a tech-up isn't cool, especially when it doesn't function on the 'voice' volume but the 'sfx ' volume, so I have to turn the sound down entirely to avoid the wise chinese speech. WTF.

Dunnagan · July 5, 2004, 06:17

Quote:

Originally posted by siron
"When I clicked join internet game in Moo2, it didn't theoretically 'freeze', but I couldn't do anything and had to back out via task manager."

U mean the "frozen init network-screen"? That is the

---

exactly.

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common error if you have chosen the wrong installation on your moo2-cd. If you want play the dos-version (orion2.exe) online choose INSTALL.EXE!!! (not setup.exe or the autorun install. it also installs orion2.exe but it wont run properly.)

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unfortuanately I don't own the cd.

=(

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vmxa1 · July 5, 2004, 14:50

I don't see any need to be creative. It is just another pick to use to have a change of pace.

You do not need to have all the tech and I do not even try to steal it all. I put on a few spies and I get what I get. Anything I steal or capture is just a bonus.

vmxa1 · July 5, 2004, 19:22

BTW if you drop creative and add Uni and +P you make that CB in 8 turns (no research).

Brutalisk · July 6, 2004, 13:56

Siron, you got the jist (spel?) of it. What I mean by adventurous, is not sticking to just one setup every time and ofcourse trying out different settings and different races.

Zirkahn can adapt very easily, that is true and he's actually one of the better players, BUT whenever he starts losing, he walks off the game.

Dirt-bag, I almost forgot about him. He hasn't been around for a few months now I would think.

"Strategic combat" is the only thing I don't want to play ever, merely because of the way it works out the combat...

Some of the kali players on the other hand, simply jsut stick to always the same settings and always the same races, protecting their "way of play" - as you pointed out, taking out whs, eliminates the possibility for blitz (and then those same people complain that uni-tol is too strong). When they take out all the settings that favour tech and blitz races ofcourse a race like uni-tol will be even more dominant... duh!!!

siron · July 7, 2004, 05:40

Life is short. Z is old. And i can accept his behavior....

And I just wanted to mention that he is adventurous.

(Nevertheless i play in x ways as long as i can destroy some fleet of my opponent. If u cant harm him at all, quitting is ok.)

"Some of the kali players on the other hand, simply jsut stick to always the same settings and always the same races"

Just "Some". That is what I said. Only 2 or 3 veterans that are now on kali IMO. All the others are "at least" as adventorous as the above-mentioned Red and Druz.

Brutalisk · July 7, 2004, 06:05

No, i am not reffering to "harming" or not. I am reffering to games whereby, Zirkahn is one of the two condenders to win. For as long as he's winning, he's in it just fine.

As soon as he starts losing, he bails out while the game can still be argued to be "undetermined" and claims he hasn't lost. In fact he often claims he has won it.

Dunnagan · July 7, 2004, 07:20

Quote:

Originally posted by Brutalisk
As soon as he starts losing, he bails out while the game can still be argued to be "undetermined" and claims he hasn't lost. In fact he often claims he has won it.

lol at that.

siron · July 7, 2004, 07:48

"As soon as he starts losing, he bails out while the game can still be argued to be "undetermined" and claims he hasn't lost. In fact he often claims he has won it."

I have NEVER observed that he claims a win in a lost position.

He often plays weak (ah i mean adventurous) blitz races....if he has prod-neighbor....he cant slaughter ----> then he bails....

Okies....thats a problem....because the prod race can go for prod techs and outproduce any tech race in that game.....

(I mean the weak AI-Blitz race is no threat at all. But the prod race has to observe a weak human blitz race...has to build some early defense instead of "normal" development.)

I would prefer some kind of 4way league....where bailing causes a lower rating...

Brutalisk · July 7, 2004, 13:03

Siron, I had 4 games out of 4 so far, whereby he and I would have a fight (all 4 way games).

In 3 of them (1st, 2nd and 4th), we were the two strongest players. In the 3rd game, he had jsut come out seeking me and we ended up fighting (I also had an experiemental race and in fact I hardly use uni-tol).

In all 4 of them we had the same trend. As soon as he 'd lose the first significant battle (without even really suffering heavy loses as he'd retreat), the game would then "crash" and "saved for later use" (=abandoned).

4 out of our 4 last games.... That is a bit more than coincidence.

I recognize Zirkahn is a good player (skill wise) and he also tends to experiment or atleast deviate a bit (and yeah he does tend to like blitz races a lot

), but what good is that, if he tries every time to avoid defeat by pulling that stunt? >

Whoha · July 7, 2004, 13:13

Has anybody played the junk race just to spite blitzers?

siron · July 8, 2004, 05:20

Brutal you wrote: "In fact he often claims he has won it."

I just repeat that I never saw such statement from him. And I have also some unfinished 4ways with him where the outcome wasnt "totally" clear. He is just bored sometimes.

Get real, Brutal. In fact you are the guy here who claims that he is the most probable winner of the unfinished 4ways. For example, the 3way with Red and Druz. Red has shown me the save. You haven't even realized that your ship design was totally wrong there.

Dunnagan · July 8, 2004, 05:54

Quote:

Originally posted by siron

"Some of the kali players on the other hand, simply jsut stick to always the same settings and always the same races"

Just "Some". That is what I said. Only 2 or 3 veterans that are now on kali IMO. All the others are "at least" as adventorous as the above-mentioned Red and Druz.

what do you mean, they'll boot out a production player?

siron · July 8, 2004, 06:25

I mean they choose a setup (for example large organic gal. pre or average without wormholes...mostly 1v1) where only 1 or 2 prod races can win.

I prefer wormholes in large or medium galaxies....

With wormholes there is more balance between blitz, prod and tech races. I like setups where dozens of races are playable. That is moo for me. Where you dont know the race of your opponent.