If you could emigrate to Mars, but could never come back to Earth, would you go? - Page 4

Whoha · January 10, 2004, 22:39

if we colonize mars/the moon/etc we'll have to bring centerfuges or something to simulate gravity.

That said, while we all might say we want to go to mars, when we get there we'd all realize that mars sucks ass, and will suck ass for decades at the least.

JellyBean · January 10, 2004, 23:00

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

How does one raise the temperature of the poles four degees C?

Scatter black dust over them. (Graphite from the moons, perhaps?) Decrease the albedo, watch them absorb more sunlight and heat up.

If you don't get enough greenhouse gases from the poles, try blowing through the crust with nukes. Create some active volcanoes, and see what they spew into the atmosphere.

Odin · January 10, 2004, 23:19

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyBean

Create some active volcanoes, and see what they spew into the atmosphere.

That made me think of the 50 mile deep holes they made in Red Mars.

Drake Tungsten · January 10, 2004, 23:21

I would go to Mars just for the three-titted women.

Odin · January 10, 2004, 23:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Whoha
if we colonize mars/the moon/etc we'll have to bring centerfuges or something to simulate gravity.

Mars has enough gravity to make the efects of bone demineralization negligible. However, if you're born on Mars and go to Earth you might need leg braces (you know what I'm talking about if you've read Blue Mars

).

Urban Ranger · January 11, 2004, 00:58

Quote:

Originally posted by JellyBean
If you don't get enough greenhouse gases from the poles, try blowing through the crust with nukes. Create some active volcanoes, and see what they spew into the atmosphere.

I thought Mars has a dead core?

The Mad Monk · January 11, 2004, 01:39

Yeah, it's easier to just nuke the poles -- more direct and all that.

Ned · January 12, 2004, 05:52

What about constructing huge nuclear-powered lasers on the ground that beamed energy towards orbiting mirrors that would reflect the beams down towards the frozen caps melting them? The nuclear reactors could also supply electricity and hot water for colonists.

DaShi · January 12, 2004, 06:20

Free Mars!

CerberusIV · January 12, 2004, 07:33

Atmospheric leakage? My memory of this is a bit hazy as it is several years since I studied it but isn't there a problem with the solar wind blowing away gases from the upper atmosphere. Most of the solar wind is deflected by Earth's magnetic field. So you need both gravity and a magnetic field to preserve an atmosphere.

Earth and Venus have both and have atmospheres. Mars and the Moon don't have a significant magnetic field and don't have much in the way of atmosphere.

Does anyone know more about this than my vague recollection of something I read years ago?

Incidentally, I wouldn't go. Send all the get-rich-quick types. Can you imagine getting emails asking you to help smuggle funds off Mars - more fun than getting money out of Liberia or wherever.

Mars could be a penal colony? Mars - the new Australia!

*ducks boomerang thrown by little green Martian*

JellyBean · January 12, 2004, 09:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
What about constructing huge nuclear-powered lasers on the ground that beamed energy towards orbiting mirrors that would reflect the beams down towards the frozen caps melting them?

Thanks - that's the first good laugh I've had today.

Let me explain.

Consider a nuclear reactor on the ground at the equator, producing 1000 megawatts (MW) of energy in the form of heat. That's used to boil water, which drives a turbine, generating maybe 500 MW of electricity. That electricity then powers a laser, which dissipates about 95% of it as heat, leaving a 25 MW laser beam going off into space. Atmospheric losses and beam spreading take a slice out of that, leaving about 15 MW once it's been reflected from a mirror satellite (or, more likely, a series of two or three of them) to the pole. Most of that is then reflected by the *white* ice, so there's only about 3 MW actually heating up the ice.

Or you could just plonk the reactor down on the pole, run the coolant loop directly into the ice, and use all 1000 MW.

Ned · January 12, 2004, 16:16

JellyBean, Good point about the reflectivity of the ice.

Yeah, putting the reactor(s) at or near the poles could be used to melt ice near the reactor. But how would it melt ice miles from the reactor?

That is why I thought of the scanned beam.

MrFun · January 12, 2004, 16:44

If we could emigrate to Mars, the important question to ask, is what kind of toilet paper will be available??

Whaleboy · January 12, 2004, 18:16

I second MrFun. Upon a satisfactory answer, I would quite happily go. This planet sucks and at least on Mars you will have winters that are ACTUALLY COLD!!!

General Ludd · January 12, 2004, 18:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I second MrFun. Upon a satisfactory answer, I would quite happily go. This planet sucks and at least on Mars you will have winters that are ACTUALLY COLD!!!

How cold does it have to be, exactly, for it to be 'actually' cold?

KrazyHorse · January 12, 2004, 19:43

Quote:

Originally posted by CerberusIV
Atmospheric leakage? My memory of this is a bit hazy as it is several years since I studied it but isn't there a problem with the solar wind blowing away gases from the upper atmosphere. Most of the solar wind is deflected by Earth's magnetic field. So you need both gravity and a magnetic field to preserve an atmosphere.

Earth and Venus have both and have atmospheres. Mars and the Moon don't have a significant magnetic field and don't have much in the way of atmosphere.
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I've never heard this before. It's possible, but your examples are a bit off.

Earth and Venus are similar masses.

Mars has 0.107 earth mass
Moon has 0.0123 earth mass

I think that has more of an effect than lack of magnetic field.

The Mad Monk · January 12, 2004, 20:54

Now that he mentions it, I do remember that -- the..."erosion"...on unprotected atmospheres by the solar wind is quite significant.

Ned · January 13, 2004, 13:39

KH, what is the atmospheric pressure at the surface of Mars in Earth equivalents of altitude, if you know.

chequita guevara · January 13, 2004, 13:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I second MrFun. Upon a satisfactory answer, I would quite happily go. This planet sucks and at least on Mars you will have winters that are ACTUALLY COLD!!!

It has summers that are "ACTUALLY COLD!!!" as well.

Alex · January 13, 2004, 14:03

hm, summers which are cold... i like it. (i hate summer. got to be the only brazilian who hates summer)

Seeker · January 13, 2004, 14:51

Cold like Antarctica on a cold day...-50 C...

Tropical for Mars is 20 C...which is my favourite temperature...

Alex · January 13, 2004, 15:41

i like -50, provided i have a female to make me feel warm

The Mad Monk · January 13, 2004, 17:28

MARS NEEDS WOMEN!

JohnT · January 13, 2004, 17:34

To answer the title: No, I've got a wife and a little girl whom I want to spend the rest of my days with.

Ned · January 13, 2004, 21:14

The Mad Monk, I like your sig material. It looks like bfg9000 is a speech writer for Al Sharpton or Dennis Kucinich.

KrazyHorse · January 14, 2004, 02:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
KH, what is the atmospheric pressure at the surface of Mars in Earth equivalents of altitude, if you know.

In terms of altitude, no clue. Something like 50 kms?

It's about 1 kPa on average, IIRC. Sea level pressure is 101.3 kPa

Whaleboy · January 14, 2004, 12:45

Quote:

How cold does it have to be, exactly, for it to be 'actually' cold?

Britain's daytime temps this winter are rarely below 2 degrees C. I want to invent a time machine to go back to victorian days to skate on the Thames dammit!

Ned · January 14, 2004, 13:07

50 Kms?

It seems that even if Mars had oxygen, it would be far too thin to breathe -- even at the bottom of craters that appear to go 2 kms deep or more. Now, if they had a crater or rift 50 kms deep, we would feel right at home.

chequita guevara · January 14, 2004, 13:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
50 Kms?

It seems that even if Mars had oxygen, it would be far too thin to breathe -- even at the bottom of craters that appear to go 2 kms deep or more. Now, if they had a crater or rift 50 kms deep, we would feel right at home.

Hence the need for terraforming.

I imagine for several hundred years at least, Mars would be an anoxic environment. The top of Mons Olympus will probably always require environmental suits.

General Ludd · January 14, 2004, 13:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

Britain's daytime temps this winter are rarely below 2 degrees C. I want to invent a time machine to go back to victorian days to skate on the Thames dammit!

It's -50 celsius with the windshield where I am. Want to trade places?

Actually, no. Living in britain isn't worth it.