January 11, 2004, 00:16
|
#1
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
IGC: Civil Status Law is Sharia
http://www.iraqpress.org/homepage.as...4-01-03\11.htm
Quote:
|
Baghdad, Iraq Press, January 3, 2004 – The Interim Governing Council has decided that Iraqi civil status courts should resort to the Islamic Sharia or code in their rulings.
The secular regime of Saddam Hussein had passed laws that all matters related to marriage, divorce, birth, inheritance, etc. were required to be registered at government-run civil status courts.
The regime had also passed civil status legislation which in many areas did not conform to the strict teaching of Islam.
For example couples were under obligation to obtain medical examination in the light of the instructions from the court clerk.
They also personally appeared in front of a judge and two witnesses.
The IGC’s decision declares all civil status regulations issued by the ousted leader Saddam Hussein as null and void.
Iraqis have the right now to follow the applications of their disparate religious denominations and sects rather than the unified civil status regulations prevalent under Saddam Hussein.
The decision is apparently a blow to US efforts to set up a secular society and democracy in the country as an example for other Middle East states to follow.
In the meantime it is a signal of the considerable influence Islamic factions wield in the country particularly the Muslim Shiite groups.
Muslims, who make up 98 percent of the society, have the right now to follow centuries-old civil status traditions and codes which the former regime undermined because it saw as backward and uncivilized.
Under the former regime civil status courts were the only authority capable of issuing official marriage, divorce or birth certificates.
Many Iraqis still resorted to their clerics in such matters but papers issued by the clergy did not have the power of law.
|
****ing IGC.
Secularism in Iraq is over, folks.
Women will have to face harsh new inequalities when this pronouncement is enforced. For instance, Sunni women's shares of their inheritance will be half of their brothers' shares.
Hopefully, too much won't fall under the jurisdiction of civil status law...
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:23
|
#2
|
Local Time: 11:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
|
Democracy... ain't it a *****?
Though I guess we could overrule them...
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:25
|
#3
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
What democracy? The IGC was appointed by us.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:28
|
#4
|
Local Time: 11:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
|
Yeah, consisting of the many diverse groups in Iraq... their leaders were put upon the IGC. Like I said, democracy, ain't it a *****. If we didn't care about representing every group to make it 'democratic', we'd have denied the Islamic groups too many spots.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:38
|
#5
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic. And the main reason why we put crazy Islamists like Hakim (whose following is much, much smaller than the more moderate Shia Ayatollah, Sistani - thus it isn't democracy) in charge seems to be that they lead exile groups, since I don't see any other rational reason.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:39
|
#6
|
King
Local Time: 09:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Liberal Socialist Party of Apolyton. Fargo Chapter
Posts: 1,649
|
Shiite fundy *******s!!! Looks like they are going from being oppressed by the Sunnis to oppressing the Sunnis. Expect a civil war within a year
__________________
Nothing to see here, move along: http://selzlab.blogspot.com
The attempt to produce Heaven on Earth often produces Hell. -Karl Popper
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:42
|
#7
|
Local Time: 11:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
|
Quote:
|
The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic.
|
Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:44
|
#8
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Quote:
|
Shiite fundy *******s!!! Looks like they are going from being oppressed by the Sunnis to oppressing the Sunnis. Expect a civil war within a year
|
Eh? This doesn't have anything to do with the Shia-Sunni conflict. In fact, Sunnis and Shia are evenly split in the IGC.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
Last edited by Ramo; January 11, 2004 at 00:56.
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 00:56
|
#9
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Quote:
|
Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!
|
The reason why it's diverse is that the exile political groups are to a large extent divided among ethnic and religious lines.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:01
|
#10
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Odd thing is, I can't find any other reference to this story on the net.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:08
|
#11
|
King
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
|
Perhaps Persia could prove to be a ripe breeding ground for an anarcho-syndicalist revolution.
__________________
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:13
|
#12
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
The revolution would likely more easily start in Sumeria though. It's more industrialized, thus more prone to syndicalism; in fact, the commies are a well-organized party there.
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:53
|
#13
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Persia doesn't exist.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:54
|
#14
|
King
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Wichita
Posts: 1,352
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by DinoDoc
Persia doesn't exist.
|
You don't exist.
__________________
http://monkspider.blogspot.com/
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:55
|
#15
|
Emperor
Local Time: 08:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 4,412
|
Well, he's got you there, DD.
__________________
Tutto nel mondo è burla
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 22:57
|
#16
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Boris Godunov
Well, he's got you there, DD.
|
He's the one arguing with voices in his head.
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 23:00
|
#17
|
PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 15:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
|
How do you know we all aren't just voices in YOUR head?
|
|
|
|
January 11, 2004, 23:04
|
#18
|
Deity
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Underwater no one can hear sharks scream
Posts: 11,096
|
Becuase that would mean I'd be crazy.
__________________
Rosbifs are destructive scum- Spiffor
I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
If government is big enough to give you everything you want, it is also big enough to take everything you have. - Gerald Ford
Blackwidow24 and FemmeAdonis fan club
|
|
|
|
January 12, 2004, 00:33
|
#19
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Yongsan-Gu, Seoul
Posts: 3,647
|
but you ARE crazy.
__________________
"Wait a minute..this isn''t FAUX dive, it's just a DIVE!"
"...Mangy dog staggering about, looking vainly for a place to die."
"sauna stories? There are no 'sauna stories'.. I mean.. sauna is sauna. You do by the laws of sauna." -P.
|
|
|
|
January 14, 2004, 04:54
|
#20
|
Emperor
Local Time: 10:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: of Fear and Oil
Posts: 5,892
|
Juan Cole (ME prof, prominent blogger on Iraq) writing about the Arabic paper az-Zaman which reported a mass-protest by women against this new law:
Quote:
|
The Baghdad/London daily az-Zaman reports that there were widespread demonstrations on Tuesday by women against the order decreeing abolition of Iraq's uniform civil codes in favor of religious law, which they say "repeals women's rights" in Iraq. This story appears to have been completely missed so far by the Western news media, which is a great shame. Women are important, too, guys.
Women activists representing 80 women's organizations (including the female Interim Minister of Public Works!) gathered at Firdaws Square in downtown Baghdad to protest the IGC decree, issued three days ago. Minister of Public Works Nasreen Barwari complained to az-Zaman about the lack of "transparency" and of "democratic consultation" in the promulgation of the decree by the IGC. Protesters carried placards with phrases like "No to discrimination, No to differentiating women and men in our New Iraq." and "We reject Decree 137, which sanctifies religious communalism." Activist Zakiyah Khalifah complained that the law would weaken Iraqi families.
US observers, including US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, have continually worried in public about Iraq becoming a theocracy, and have rejected that option. But the American-appointed Interim Governing Council has suddenly taken Iraq in a theocratic direction that has important implications for women's rights. As reported here earlier, the IGC took a decision recently to abolish Iraq's civil personal status law, which was uniform for all Iraqis under the Baath. In its place, the IGC called for religious law to govern personal status, to be administered by the clerics of each of Iraq's major religious communities for members of their religion. Thus, Shiites would be under Shiite law and Chaldeans under Catholic canon law for these purposes.
The IGC has ceded to the religious codes jurisdiction over marriage, engagement, suitability to marry, the marriage contract, proof of marriage, dowry, financial support, divorce, the 3-month "severance payments" owed to divorced wives in lieu of alimony, inheritance, and all other personal status matters.
For the vast majority of women who are Muslim, the implementation of `iddah or the obligation of a man to support a woman for 3 months after he divorces her (a term long enough to see whether she is pregnant with his child) has the effect of abolishing the divorced woman's right to alimony. This abrogation of alimony was effected for Muslims in India in the mid-1980s with the Shah Banou case, as the Congress Party's sop to Indian Muslim fundamentalists. The particular form of Islamic law that the IGC seems to envisage operating would also give men the right of unilateral divorce over their wives, gives men the right to take second, third and fourth wives, and gives girls half as much inheritance from the father's estate as boys.
Since the Interim Governing Council was appointed directly by the United States, it is in effect an organ of the Occupation Authority. As such, it is a contravention of the 1907 Hague Regulations for it to change civil law in an occupied territory. The US appointed a number of clerics and leaders of religious parties to the IGC, almost ensuring that this sort of thing would happen.
The US is now in the position of imposing on the Iraqi public, including the 50% who are women, a theocratic code of personal status. The question is whether this step is just the first in the road to an Iraqi theocracy.
|
I wonder how we/the IGC are gonna enforce this, given this sort of opposition in parts of the country. In Iran after the Islamists took over the gov't, they started passing these extremely draconian laws on the rights of women. This triggered mass-protest among women, causing the gov't to back down. Instead they passed the laws piece by piece (i.e. first women had to wear a hijab during work - then they had to wear a hijab in any public place - then then had to wear a hijab in front of any male non-relative). Will we see something similar?
__________________
"Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. He is full of murderous resentment of people who are ignorant without having come by their ignorance the hard way. "
-Bokonon
|
|
|
|
January 14, 2004, 05:03
|
#21
|
Deity
Local Time: 11:57
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: 138% of your RDA of Irony
Posts: 18,577
|
Quote:
|
Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Quote:
|
The group being diverse doesn't make it democratic.
|
Well that's the freaking reason for it being diverse! DUH!
|
I suggest you look up the definition of democratic. Just because a group is diverse does not mean that it represents the will of the people.
Being diverse guarantees only that it is an oligarchy, not a monarchy.
Unless you wish to suggest the feudal system was democratic?
|
|
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is On
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:57.
|
|