Units - Balance Army

theDragon · January 11, 2004, 01:51

Hey this question may have been stated and or solved in some other thread, but does anyone know what units to use against what units? Like normally in Strategy games the programmers great units to balace other units out and such. Does anyone know what Civ3's equivelant is???
Like Horsemen work against Archers,
Archers work against swordsmen and
swordsmen work against Horsemen???
Thats sort of thing (AND WOW

IS THAT OFF!)

But yeh just would like to know!

Thanks!

- Do not wake a night owl that never sleeps.

vmxa1 · January 11, 2004, 02:25

AFAIK there is no unit to unit bonus. The combat is resolved on a attack rating vs defensive rating. Modified by and bonus for terrain/fort/river/city/wall and if they are fast units or not.

All of these are not unit dependant perse. I mean fast is not given to all, but it is not a case of spear vs horse gets a bonus.

So if all things are equal you only need to have a better A vs D and pray for a favorable RNG.

Theseus · January 11, 2004, 02:58

The only thing like that in Civ3 is slowmovers versus fastmovers (i.e., 1 mp versus >1 mp)... fastmovers can retreat, whether on offense or defense, which likelihood increases with experience.

There were unit balances like that in Civ2 (e.g., Pikeman versus mounted units), but no longer.

theDragon · January 11, 2004, 03:39

So theres no real way to discribe which units are useful against other units? (especially in past expirences) If it all just has to do with those three numbers than what is the unit that is the offset of those numbers?
like 1.2.1. vs 2.1.1. works well or something????

Its only after we've lost everything that we're free to do anything.

Jaybe · January 11, 2004, 04:04

Just compare attack strength to NET defense strength.

Since I do not know where on the net the combat calculators are, I advise you to look in the Editor:
General Settings tab for town/city/metro, river, fortification (unit is fortified), etc.
Terrain tab for various terrain on the tile (10% defensive bonus for grassland to 100% for mountains).

vmxa1 · January 11, 2004, 15:30

There a few calc around. The DES_020 is straight forward. A 2 att vs 2 def will be a dead heat. Add in fort to the defender and the attacker is toast. Change the defender back and add retreat to the attacker and it 60-40. So it comes down to the modifications to defense or attack that matter.

Snotty · January 11, 2004, 15:33

Civ is more number crunching compared to RTS rock-paper-scissors systems. Learn the things that give defensive bonus. Terrain, attacking across rivers, fortification and city bonus.

Theseus · January 11, 2004, 15:51

Here is a pretty good calculator:

http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3combatcalc.html

vmxa1 · January 11, 2004, 20:29

It does not have C3C units.

Theseus · January 11, 2004, 21:01

Oh, shoot, I thought you could override the a/d values manually. Still a good start though.

vmxa1 · January 12, 2004, 03:57

I have that 1.42 xls version, but I never did figure out to use it, so I go with DES.

steven8r · January 12, 2004, 17:35

My personal combat calculator is luck. Just throw enough units at another unit and eventually, you will win. (helps to use Arty bombard first).

Like was mentioned above, it's mostly a numbers game. Attack value vs Defense value and the RNG thrown-in just to really confuse things (that's why ocationally, a Spearman can defeat a Tank).

As far as 'Balancing' units. Use the old-time balance-scale method. If it would tip in your favor, you're probably ok, if it tips in the AI's favor, you're probably screwed.

Steven

vmxa1 · January 12, 2004, 20:49

The calcualor is used for test, not really during the game. Since there is so much randomness, it is not a true predictor, but rather a guide. What should happen in the long run. But is uefull if you have a doubt about things like terrain and such.

asleepathewheel · January 12, 2004, 22:00

there are some units with Air defense bonuses(boni?), flak, sams, aegis, thats as far as it gets even in C3C

nbarclay · January 14, 2004, 19:42

The biggest rock/scissors/paper element in Civ 3 is the division between offensive and defensive units. For example, archers not escorted by spearmen are vulnerable to enemy archers. On the other hand, using spearmen to attack is generally suicide. A similar element exists with bombardment units: they can be powerful additions to a stack, but if they aren't protected adequately, they can be captured by the enemy. Late in the game, flack units are useful when attacked by enemy aircraft but largely useless otherwise. So there is some element of specialization, but not down to a "this unit against that unit" level.

Theseus · January 14, 2004, 21:45

Ah, sorry, Nathan makes an EXCELLENT point. Combined forces is really the answer to the question, as opposed to uni-versus-unit specific capabilities.

And his first example is perfect, what is generally referred to as the Archer Rush (see: Sir Ralph). You're sending 6-8 Archers at your early neighbor... Who you gonna call? Spearmen. Etc etc.