C3C PBEM Tournament: Game #4

BigFree · January 12, 2004, 20:09

The players:

Game 4:
BigFree (GMT - 8) bigfree1 AT comcast DOT net
E_T (GMT -5) royparrish AT earthlink DOT net
Sir Ralph (GMT + 1) sirralph AT gmx DOT com
Paddy the Scot (GMT + 11) paddythescot AT hotmail DOT com

Awaiting turn....

Edited to change turn oder.

Harovan · January 12, 2004, 20:16

Why is the turn order that strange? Who slept here, especially since I mentioned that once already?

BigFree · January 12, 2004, 20:18

ET's ability to play the turns in a certain has nothing to do with his location on the earth. His schedule is mixed and his job is a temp one right now. So, it really makes him no differnece where he is in the order.

E_T · January 12, 2004, 20:59

SR, I currently am working a 6PM to 6:30AM EST job. I work 2 days on and 2 days off. So, I'm now up in the evening and early mornings.

RL s*cks sometimes....

E_T

BigFree · January 12, 2004, 21:14

Ok, turn order WAS changed by OctX:

So, now it's:

1)BF
2)ET
3)SR
4)PTS

Turn sent to ET. Can we all meet in #apolyton to get some turns done? Myself and ET are there now.

Harovan · January 12, 2004, 22:03

No, if you're considering that it's 3am here and I have to get up at seven. I'm going to bed now. I may play a turn in the morning.

E_T · January 12, 2004, 23:09

Maybe OctX (or whoever) thinks the world turns the other direction.

No matter, 4000BC sent to SR.

E_T

BigFree · January 13, 2004, 00:43

Its the same difference.

Just because the date changes on a certain line on the world it doesn't mean that the game must start with those that are nearest that line. The games rotation still goes around the world with out back tracking (considering ET and I are in the US).

Harovan · January 13, 2004, 02:18

Sorry, but the save didn't make it to me.

Harovan · January 13, 2004, 04:57

By the way, you have messed up the turn order still more. It is now flowing from west to east, i.e. against the sun. That's the absolute worst what can happen. I expect this game to last forever. Bugger, but my interest in playing Civ3 is waning anyway...

BigFree · January 13, 2004, 05:20

SirRalph, you are wrong on your point. Not everyone plays their turns only in the mornings or the afternoon or the evenings. It different for everyone. The turn order does not have to follow the rise and setting of the sun; it can go in the reverse order just as well. East to West or vice versa is the same thing as far as moving the game along.

The only thing you want to avoid is things like this:

Player #:
1) -8gmt
2) +2GMT
3) -6GMT
4) +5GMT

This jumps back and forth. West-East-West-East.

We want West-West-West-West or East-East-East-East.

Now, you might say that ET should have gone ahead of me, maybe that is technically correct. But, the difference in our timezones is only 3 hours and we both are very active here so we won't be the ones holding up the turns. I doubt you will be either. (ET told me he sent the turn to you) I have experince playing with Paddy as well and he's a relatively quick player as well. I don't see any problems with our game moving along.

Harovan · January 13, 2004, 05:42

Paddy the Scot
Sir Ralph
E_T
Big Free

... or any cyclical change would be the best, assuming everyone plays mostly in his afternoon and evening times.

Let's assume, everyone plays his turn at 6pm his time and goes to bed (or watches TV, or cares for the family, or does housework...) after that. Lets further assume, E_T had no job issues:

I have the turn and play it, when it's 6pm my time. Six hours later, it's 6pm for E_T and he plays. Three hours later it's 6pm for BigFree. Five hours later it's 6pm for Paddy. Ten hours later it's 6pm for me again. The turn made it in 6+3+5+10=24 hours around the world.

If we reverse the turn order: I have the turn and play it, when it's 6pm my time. Fourteen hours later, it's 6pm for Paddy and he plays. Nineteen hours later it's 6pm for BigFree. Twenty one hour later it's 6pm for E_T. Eighteen hours later it's 6pm for me again. The turn made it in 14+19+21+18=72 hours around the world.

I know that this is too strict, because an evening is not a punctual matter which can be reduced to "just 6pm and nothing else", but it is an exaggeration to show the general idea. Even if we assume, that the two Americans play the game in the same day, it's still at least two days per turn as opposed to one. You can not assume, that everyone lives in your time zone, like you did yesterday

(inviting all in the chat, although it was 3am for me... while it was 6pm for you, a coincidence?).

But as I said, I don't care much if this game lasts forever.

BigFree · January 13, 2004, 08:01

It is an exageration. Which is why I had made the point that people play at different times. I do not have a set 'play time'. I play the turn when 1) I have the turn 2) I am around the computer to play it.

If you wanted to get the game moving as fast as possible then you would have had to have asked each of us when our best available time slot was to play it instead of assuming that each would play in the evenings mostly. It could be possible that it is only reasonable for Paddy to play and send the turn to you when it's 10AM for you. But, we do not know this. It may be that he can play and send to you when it's 9PM your time. Or it could be that he can play at varying times with nothing set in stone.

Even if you take a look at your 6PM example it shows that peopel must play at or near 6PM in order for the timely passing of the turn to occur. It was only posted what time zone the players are in. You are assuming that people have a schedule simular to yours in that people mostly play in their evenings.

If I play at 6AM (my time) then ET plays it 2 hours later at 11AM (his time) then you, SirRalph get the turn at 5PM (your time), then you play it 2 hours later and Paddy gets it at 5AM (his time), then he sends 2 hours later to me and I get it at 12 noon (my time). Lets say I take 2 hours to get to it; that's back to ET in 8 hours total. Now, this is assuming, like you did, that people will play the turn at the time I marked. Will everyone always be able to play at the same time everyday? Will everyone be available at different times everyday?

If every one had a set time to play the game, and those set times were the same for all players, then an East to West set-up would be best.

Will it happen like this? I doubt it. I get PBEM's at different times everyday. Some players always play at certain times though, if you send it to them an hour past that time, you have to wait 23 hours for them to get to it. Almost like clockwork.

I guess my main point is that I do not have a set time I can play it. If someone in this game can only play during set times, then they should tell us about it and we can reset the play order in order to accomodate them and to help the game along.

Paddy · January 13, 2004, 08:40

Sir Ralph, I too play at all different hours of the day, for several points:

1. I am married, and humbly obey she whom I love

2. I am a dad, and love to play footy with my son.

3. I have a job, and work a minimum of 37.5 hours per week. We operate 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. So each week we have completely different rosters to last week. The master roster rotates every 20 weeks, and we are always changing the master roster

And so for these three reason my hours of play can greatly vary.

Yet I am involved with quite a few PBEM's as well, and these three components have not caused any major heartache to keeping the sacred save moving along.

My main request is that there is a post made to alert me that the save is on its way. Then if it does not show, I can track back etc... but I think you guys no all about that...

Harovan · January 13, 2004, 09:25

As you all wish. The turn order is not all that speeds the game up. It is but one of the factors, with enough time and goodwill of the players and a good email equipment (and not yahoo and not hotmail) being the others. However if one sets it deliberately to the worst possible order (which we have right now), he has lost the right to ever complain if the game is too slow for his gusto.

I am married and have a full time job and rarely can afford to stay up later than midnight. So if E_T sends me the save after 6pm his time (my midnight), I can already say here and now, that I will (not may but definitely will) delay the game full 18 or 19 hours until I get home from work in the next day. Except in the very early game, where turns last 30 seconds at most, I usually can't afford to play in the morning either. And that is not because I am evil or want to prove something, but because the game runs in the wrong direction.

Not that I care much. Except for some PBEMs I don't play much Civ3 anymore, anyway. I'm pretty fed up with testing one beta patch per week in a game I already paid for, with virtually no noteable changes between the patches. I have a couple of games running, which are more enjoyable, and - more important - out of the BETA phase.

E_T · January 13, 2004, 14:42

Quote:

Originally posted by Sir Ralph
Sorry, but the save didn't make it to me.

SR, If this happens again, please e-mail and PM me to let me know, so that I can resend it ASAP. I don't always look in these threads to see what is going on. I also suggest that everyone else try to do the same, if it happens and they don't notice it.

I'll have resent it, please e-mail and PM me if you don't get it.

E_T

P.S. I played with the original unpatched version and it's doing just fine.....

Paddy · January 14, 2004, 06:36

OK, Sir Ralph...

Could you please let us know what is going on now.

On the main thread for the Tournament you are saying that you are not playing again.

Yet this was placed well after E_T posted above here.

Common mate, I have been awaiting the save, and do not know what you are doing. You quit, you rejoined, you gave it away to Genghis Farbio, you took it back... I thought we were here to play Civ III

I have PM'd you and emailed you requesting the save.

You know who we are, you know where this thread is, could you please let us know what is going on.

Harovan · January 14, 2004, 06:54

What is going on is, that I happen to be at work and will be here for seven more hours. I can spend a short attention span to the forum and drop a note, but I can't play conquests. I know it's your prime time now, but I can't do anything about it. I know how to handle time zones. Several others don't.

I haven't gotten the save the first time E_T sent it and so far I haven't gotten the second attempt too. I checked my mail shortly this morning and it wasn't there. I will check again this evening. I'm not going to apologize for the long delay, as it is what is supposed to happen, again and again. It's not my fault that the game was set up this way. I did my best to get it right.

So far I am ready to play this game, but nobody will prevent my from stating my opinion in the general thread, when it comes to the question "should we play now or later". I say, we should play later. I won't play epic games till the game is in a ready state, not because I hate the game, but because I love it and don't want to get frustrated over it.

Harovan · January 14, 2004, 13:55

The save is still not here. Since my other PBEMs go well, I doubt, that the bug is on my side. I duplicate this message by PM and email.

E_T · January 14, 2004, 15:08

SR, I got your e-mail and have sent the file attached to a reply to that one. But, just incase you don't get it, I'll also post it here.

E_T

BigFree · January 14, 2004, 15:36

ET, your email sux.

Harovan · January 14, 2004, 16:03

I'm sorry to tell you, that your third email got lost too. It would be really nice to fix it, because polling a thread sucks, especially if you don't play the game at the moment.

4000 BC to Paddy

Harovan · January 14, 2004, 16:10

The mystery around the emails is solved. I had put earthlink.net on my blacklist, because I was harassed with various porn spam from this site. My blacklist is pretty long, I'm quite anal when it comes to spam. Your emails were filtered out.

I put your address on my whitelist. It should be fixed now. You could send me a test mail, just to be sure.