V1.15 BETA Release

JesseSmith · January 12, 2004, 23:30

http://www.civfanatics.net/~tavis/files/C3CBETAv115.zip

BETA PATCH! Public Release will not be until the end of February so if you aren't interested in reviewing it please do not use it!

Make a backup of your original Civ3Conquests.exe, jgl.dll, and text\labels.txt

IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU HAVE V1.12 & V1.13

Items for v1.15 BETA (1/12/04):
* Corruption was set by Soren to meet his design. The Palace is the only Corruption Free Civ Center. All other cities are affected by their distance from the palace, WLTK Day, Governments, Corruption Reducing Buildings, Corruption Policeman, and the # of cities in your empire. Courthouse effects inscreased from 5% to 10%.

* Updated AI Strategies in Conquests: Mesopotamia - Galley (Naval Power), Enkidu Warrior (Offense), Rise of Rome - All legions (Defense OFF), MesoAmerica - Acali & Great Acali (Acali:Unload/Upgrade & Naval Transport, Great Acali (Upgrade Unit OFF), Age of Discovery - Javelin Thrower (Offense), Missionary (Capture, Offense), WWII Pacific - Fighter Bomber (Bombard!)

* Fixed Random Civ MP Launch OOS

* Secret Police HQ no longer gives effects corruption OR OCN bonus when player leaves Communism. Fixed error with Government required buildings not turning off.

* Updated Civilopedia.txt Forbidden Palace to explain that all cities are still affected by distance from the Real Capital.

* Updated Civilopedia

* Updated PediaIcons.txt

* Fixed Credit Typos

Slax · January 12, 2004, 23:42

Any effect of FP on OCN?

Antrine · January 12, 2004, 23:57

'Corruption was set by Soren to meet his design', respectfully what does this mean? And what differences if any from 1.13 which I now finally have matured in a on-going game to test by building the FP. If I am correct, the OCN was additionally extended 50% in version 1.13? And I note the FP created another Corruption Free city. So far I like these two enhancements.

Additionally, Raising the Courthouse impact to 10%; is this a hard-coded design change?

Sincerely,
Many gracious thanks for all your deligent and hard work!!

asleepathewheel · January 13, 2004, 00:15

so corruption the way soren intended it? intriguing. can't wait to finish my current game and give it a whirl.

(love these new patches coming out right and left, though too fast for llittle me to play much more than a full game each!)

BigFree · January 13, 2004, 00:35

Quote:

Originally posted by JesseSmith
http://www.civfanatics.net/~tavis/files/C3CBETAv115.zip

Items for v1.15 BETA (1/12/04):
* Corruption was set by Soren to meet his design. The Palace is the only Corruption Free Civ Center. All other cities are affected by their distance from the palace, WLTK Day, Governments, Corruption Reducing Buildings, Corruption Policeman, and the # of cities in your empire. Courthouse effects inscreased from 5% to 10%.

I thought the Courthouse reduced corruption by 25%. What's with this?

kring · January 13, 2004, 00:38

Thank you for the update Jesse.

ducki · January 13, 2004, 00:58

Thanks Jesse! You guys are doing a great job of staying on target, even after opening up the beta patch.
Keep up the good work, I can't wait to see how things work now.

Jon Miller · January 13, 2004, 01:02

tell me how this is

I just played my first multiplayer 1.12 game

unfortunately it ended when my freind (and the host) had his harddrive fail (Really sucky)

Jon Miller

Capt Dizle · January 13, 2004, 01:19

Ongoing product support is a good thing. There, I finally said something nice about Soren and his Firaxian buddies. I expect my penis to promptly fall off.

asleepathewheel · January 13, 2004, 01:23

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFree

I thought the Courthouse reduced corruption by 25%. What's with this?

Its never been that high, unless I'm horribly mistaken. Its only ever given me a shield or two back even in otherwise potent cities.

So its 10% from courthouse, and still 5 from police stations? not too shabby.

Jaybe · January 13, 2004, 01:58

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFree
I thought the Courthouse reduced corruption by 25%. What's with this?

Is it possible that what was meant is either:
5-10% additional, or
an additional 5-10% of 25% (i.e., as much as 27.5%)?

BigFree · January 13, 2004, 05:04

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel

Its never been that high, unless I'm horribly mistaken. Its only ever given me a shield or two back even in otherwise potent cities.

So its 10% from courthouse, and still 5 from police stations? not too shabby.

Let's say you had a city that was making 10 spt before waste and 6 after. Those 4 'wasted' shields represents ~40% corrutption rate for that city. Now, the Couthouse is built. It reduces the corruption rate for that city by 25%. So 25% of .40 = .10 or 10%. So, 10% is what I gain back against corruption; which in this case is one shield. At least that's the way I thought it worked.

Gunter · January 13, 2004, 05:37

Even if for several reasons I haven't yet tried Conquests, I can't avoid to express my huge satisfaction seeing Fireaxians are working very fine about the support and they are releasing BETA patches that IMO is the best way to perfectly tune a patch.

My copy will wait until the end of February before beeing tested but again, my best compliments to give players this kind of support !

Well done, and keep up the good work following players' suggestions

Gunter

MrWhereItsAt · January 13, 2004, 06:24

Quote:

Originally posted by BigFree

Let's say you had a city that was making 10 spt before waste and 6 after. Those 4 'wasted' shields represents ~40% corrutption rate for that city. Now, the Couthouse is built. It reduces the corruption rate for that city by 25%. So 25% of .40 = .10 or 10%. So, 10% is what I gain back against corruption; which in this case is one shield. At least that's the way I thought it worked.

It isn't a straightforward 25% of corruption returned. Remember that some cities with say 10 wasted shields will not get back ANYTHING from a Courthouse. According to alexman's thread,

Corruption% = 100 * (Fd*Fg*Fi*Ft + Fc)

Where the Courthouse effect is in the Fc term.

Further,

Code:

          Ncity / (2*Fn*Nopt),         if Ncity <= Fn*Nopt,
Fc =     
          Ncity / (Fn*Nopt) - 0.5,     if Ncity > Fn*Nopt,

And the Courthouse part itself slots in as N in

Fn = d*(1 + g + fp + imp*N + c)/100

with Imp = .25 for non-Communist governments. For simplicity's sake (and the fact I have never used it) I will omit the Communism case, and only look at the case where there are less than the optimal number of cities built.

For a given constant value of all other values, building a Courthouse will result in Fn changing from d*(1 + g + fp + c)/100 to d*(1 + g + fp + c)/100 +d*0.25/100 (a difference of d*0.25/100). So the increase in this value Fn due to a Courthouse depends also on d, which is the %age of optimal city number for this map.

Then, Fc changes from Ncity/(2*Fn0*Nopt) to Ncity/(2*(Fn0+d*0.25/100)*Nopt), which is a decrease of (after a little expansion)
...
(d/200)*Ncity/(2*Fn0*(2*Fn0*Nopt+d/200*Nopt))

Note: Fn0 is what I have Fn to be before the Courthouse was built, ie Fn0 = d*(1 + g + fp + c)/100

Now the actual corruption in the city goes from

100 * (Fd*Fg*Fi*Ft + Fc) as above

to 100 * (Fd*Fg*Fi*Ft + (Fc - (d/200)*Ncity/(2*Fn0*(2*Fn0*Nopt+d/200*Nopt))) )

Which itself is a decrease in corruption of 100*(d/200)*Ncity/(2*Fn0*(2*Fn0*Nopt+d/200*Nopt))

So, as you can see (if not very clearly), building a Courthouse changes the corruption in a city by a value that depends on the city number, the optimal number of cities, the percentage of the optimal city number constructed so far, g (Government form), fp (whether you have an FP or not) and whether you are Commercial or not. Phew!

In other words, the Courthouse's effect is modified by every other corruption altering effect, so just do the spreadhseet to calculate it for yourself, unless you really need to practive your calc like I just did.

Oh, and BTW this worked for PtW - Soren alone knows what it is really like in C3C right now.

Harovan · January 13, 2004, 06:42

While I certainly appreciate the continuous support, I completely fail to understand, why this stuff wasn't thoroughly tested in the prolonged and well-manned beta phase.

DrSpike · January 13, 2004, 07:05

Yes like so many posts recently, I want to start by thumbsing up the interaction.

However, the 'vision' we are told Soren had all along looks absolutely nothing like the Civ3/PTW situation. Are we to believe that Soren accidentally made the FP give a new set of city ranks? And screwed up the way those city ranks worked anyway?

Also, Alexman said the OCN increase was IIRC 10% in 1.13 rather than the 50% advertised.........has this been fixed?

Also I presume the FP still acts to reduce distance corruption but without creating new city ranks, but the initial post is hazy on this. It's quite bad that after the info release each time I await Alexman's posts to see if corruption model works as advertised.

Don't want to be any trouble (I know it is still a testing patch at the moment) but more info please Jesse.

player1 · January 13, 2004, 07:21

One question to developers:
Will this patch be released at atarisupport.com like v1.12, or will it be as unofficial as 1.13?

MrWhereItsAt · January 13, 2004, 07:33

As stated above this is still a beta patch, so it is certainly 'unofficial', whilst still coming from official sources. There would be little point in putting it on the Atari website, seeing as there has been such a rapid succession of patches recently, and maybe more to come before the final one.

Stuie · January 13, 2004, 09:00

Jesse - just to clarify, when are the "Currently Targeted" items you identified in this thread (http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=105283) targeted for? Will they be in a future beta, or do we have to wait for the public patch?

Gramphos · January 13, 2004, 11:52

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
So its 10% from courthouse, and still 5 from police stations? not too shabby.

No, it is the building flag 'reduces corruption' that has this effect, so Police stations will undergo the same change as courthouses.

Aggie · January 13, 2004, 11:56

Also is it safe to continue a game under this patch that was started in 1.13 or do we need to start new. In the earlier patches it was ok.

Aggie

DrSpike · January 13, 2004, 11:58

Probably best to start anew........some people mentioned problems with continuing games started with old patches.

asleepathewheel · January 13, 2004, 12:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Gramphos

No, it is the building flag 'reduces corruption' that has this effect, so Police stations will undergo the same change as courthouses.

ah, had I thought about it, I would have realized that to be the case, thanks

conmcb25 · January 13, 2004, 14:55

If this is going to be posted on the Firaxis site and we need 1.13 as well as 1.12, does that now mean that 1.13 will be posted there as well and changes from a review patch to a Beta patch?

Rommel2D · January 13, 2004, 15:41

Quote:

Originally posted by asleepathewheel
Its never been that high, unless I'm horribly mistaken. Its only ever given me a shield or two back even in otherwise potent cities.

I don't know how horrible this is, but the civilopedia says courthouses only affect corruption. If it doesn't decrease waste, as this implies, that would explain why no one is noticing alot of shields being saved.

Didn't courthouse effects get changed from modifying local corruption directly to modifying the OCN for that city? Was this when the 25% was knocked down to 5%?

alexman · January 13, 2004, 17:02

Just to clarify, Courthouses still cut distance corruption in half, and increase the OCN by 25%.

New in this patch is the fact that a city without a courthouse has a maximum corruption 90%, but with a courthouse it has a maximum corruption of 80%.

Police station effects are cumulative with courthouses, so a city with both will have just 1/4 the distance corruption and 50% higher OCN, and maximum 70% corruption.

Jesse and Soren: as I mentioned elsewhere, the FP does not increase the OCN by 37.5% as you said it would. In 1.15 it's about half that much (around 20%).

vmxa1 · January 13, 2004, 17:25

Thanks for the scoop alexman. It was like a ping pong ball going back and forth and I was getting a headache.

player1 · January 13, 2004, 17:32

Quote:

Originally posted by alexman
New in this patch is the fact that a city without a courthouse has a maximum corruption 90%, but with a courthouse it has a maximum corruption of 80%.

Police station effects are cumulative with courthouses, so a city with both will have just 1/4 the distance corruption and 50% higher OCN, and maximum 70% corruption.

So every city with courthouse will be guaranteed to be at least 20% productive.
And every city without it will be guaranteed to be at least 10% productive.

That's good, since courthouse always makes a differece, and there are no more irrational 95% corrupt cities.

UnOrthOdOx · January 13, 2004, 18:08

Quote:

Originally posted by MrWhereItsAt

It isn't a straightforward 25% of corruption returned. Remember that some cities with say 10 wasted shields will not get back ANYTHING from a Courthouse. According to alexman's thread,

some bunch of numbers

So, as you can see...

RIIIGHT, I see that CLEARLY.

Can't wait to try the new model in my ever so scientific 'try and see' method.

SirOsis · January 13, 2004, 18:11

Quote:

Originally posted by JesseSmith
IT IS RECOMMENDED THAT YOU HAVE V1.12 & V1.13

Recommended but not required? Why do we need the earlier versions? Doesn't the 1.15 stand alone?

I have 1.12 installed and do I need to install 1.13 before 1.15?