The Romans

[Ision]

I have decided to do a review on each CIV. My intention is to encourage debate and hopefully to help others (and myself) in their game play. For the record, I am primarily an Emperor level player with a builder/warmonger combination style of play.

The Romans

The mystique of ancient Rome has a unique attraction to a great many CIVers. The fame of this CIV has undoubtedly made it among the most common of, “the first CIV I ever played was…” stories. Among CIVs, the Romans have a small but highly loyal following of players. What follows is my take on the Romans, and a few tips for all you would be ‘Caesars’. Veni – Vidi – Vici !

Militaristic and Commercial, the Roman traits are not among the most dynamic as a combination. The greatest asset of the Militaristic trait is the ability to generate great leaders and the faster promotion rate of its units. Unlike many traits, the power of militaristic is felt throughout the entire game. However its greatest impact is in the early game. Generate 2 or 3 Ancient Age armies and the game may be over in a flash. The commercial trait is also like the militaristic in that it too is felt throughout the entire game. However, its impact is the exact inverse of militaristic. Commercial starts off slowly, and begins to snowball in its effect. Its greatest impact is felt in the early Industrial Age. Lastly, a warmongering Roman will find that neither of his starting techs give him a head start are in a tech branch that works towards the strengths of his UU (Iron Working) or towards a warmongers Government (Monarchy).

The peaceful Roman will find that his traits can be used effectively culturally and scientifically, if he is both patient and plans ahead in detail. This player is better served with a Republic beeline – shoot for Philosophy first (grab CoL with free tech) and then research Republic slowly. His research time towards Republic will allow him to build up a decent amount of commerce and allow his cities to grow to enough population as to make Republic useful. The Republic beeline usually allows for him being able to trade for Iron Working and his access to Legionary UUs. The Legionary acts as a superb defender/attacker combo making other CIVs think twice about attacking a peaceful Rome. Unfortunately the starting Roman traits tend to keep Rome from being able to expand as fast or hard as other CIVs. A peaceful-builder Roman may find that early wars are almost necessities if he is to have enough cities to take advantage of the Commercial trait in the 3rd and 4th ages. The Roman player will find that he must pay full price for his cultural buildings. The money for this will roll in – but be patient. The early game for the peaceful Roman is far better served with Marketplaces and Harbors, than Temples or Libraries. Cultural buildings will come later and in mass – but first priority is the bank account. Scientifically Rome usually lags, or is at best on par with the other CIVs, until the early Industrial Ages when the Libraries and Universities make their impact. Until then make the best of having the advantage of starting with Alphabet and the jump-start to Philosophy. Astute trades can keep you at tech parity for some time.

Warmongering with Rome is usually far more rewarding than peaceful building. Roman advantages include, cheap barracks and a UU that is truly an awesome weapon. The Legionary is a 3-3-1 foot unit that requires iron. Amass a goodly number of these beast and most CIVs will be hard pressed to survive a determined Roman attack. The Legionary is also one of those UUs whose value is not eclipsed until the advent of Cavalry, and therefore is potent throughout most of the Middle Ages. The 3-3-1 stats of the Legionary allows for it to act as both Hoplite and Swordsman at the same time! The Roman can literally build nearly no other type of unit for quite some time. Also, keep in mind that the Legionary benefits immensely working in combination with a small group of catapults. Generate 3 armies (filled with Legions) with great leaders, and you will find that there is virtually no city in ancient or middle ages that can withstand the assault. . Unfortunately, the higher cost of upgrades in C3C has hit Rome hard. The traditional tactic of a mass warrior upgrade to Legionary is no longer viable except in a limited sense. You will find that your upgrading will be done in portions. In effect your warmongering will also be more in the ‘one bit at a time’ style, than the complete overruns that were common in PTW. In a poor start situation you may even be better served foregoing a Legionary strat for an archer strat. The beeline to Philosophy (grab Polytheism as free tech), and then slowly research Monarchy - usually better serves the warmongering Roman (this assumes you were able to trade for Mysticism). As a warmonger CIV Rome is a solid choice, but far from a top choice.

Summary: A fantastic UU cannot make up for a litany of Civ deficiencies that include: an awkward trait combo, slow early expansion, typically an early UU generated Golden Age, early tech parity problems, and the loss of Rome’s greatest strat – the mass upgrade to Legionary. At the higher levels even the Alphabet to Philosophy (*free tech) beeline strat is usually lost. A slow, ponderous, overly methodical, and uncomfortable CIV to play – 3rd tier overall (2nd tier for warmongers).

below are the links to my other Civ reviews:

The Persians
The Mongols
The Greeks
The Americans
The Egyptians
The Babylonians

[Plotinus]

Good to see another of your reviews. I've never had much time for the Romans myself, to be honest - good UU, but the traits leave me cold, at least in that combination.

Not sure about your Caesar quote - isn't it "Veni, Vidi, Vici"? Unless you're recasting it in a way that my very primitive Latin skills can't cope with, of course...

[Jaybe]

When as Rome, I rarely have need to leave Monarchy because of the commercial trait. A several-turn stint in democracy in industrial to quicken the rail building, perhaps. Works well for me.

[MrWhereItsAt]

Originally posted by Ision


Warmongering with Rome is usually far more rewarding than peaceful building. Roman advantages include, cheap barracks and a UU that is truly an awesome weapon. The Legionary is a 3-3-1 foot unit that requires iron. Amass a goodly number of these beast and most CIVs will be hard pressed to survive a determined Roman attack. The Legionary is also one of those UUs whose value is not eclipsed until the advent of Cavalry, and therefore is potent throughout most of the Middle Ages. The 3-3-1 stats of the Legionary allows for it to act as both Hoplite and Swordsman at the same time! The Roman can literally build nearly no other type of unit for quite some time. Also, keep in mind that the Legionary benefits immensely working in combination with a small group of catapults. Generate 3 armies (filled with Legions) with great leaders, and you will find that there is virtually no city in ancient or middle ages that can withstand the assault. . Unfortunately, the higher cost of upgrades in C3C has hit Rome hard. The traditional tactic of a mass warrior upgrade to Legionary is no longer viable except in a limited sense. You will find that your upgrading will be done in portions. In effect your warmongering will also be more in the ‘one bit at a time’ style, than the complete overruns that were common in PTW. In a poor start situation you may even be better served foregoing a Legionary strat for an archer strat.

Total agreement here. Although they may end up on a battlefield against superior units like Knights and Muskets, a numerical advantage with them is still often enough to finish the job.

[David Murray]

Although they may end up on a battlefield against superior units like Knights and Muskets, a numerical advantage with them is still often enough to finish the job.

Only problem is, once you get feudalism you can't build them any more.

I agree with the excellent review. Rome is definitely too much of a slow starter.

[Jaybe]

Only problem is, once you get feudalism you can't build them any more.

Legions upgrade to muskets, or
Pikes have an attack of 3

(If neither of these are true, then MAKE them so in the editor)

[gunkulator]

I've never had much luck with the Romans. Their trait combination poorly complements their UU. Commerical is only decent late in the game, however in order to win, Rome must be an early aggressor. Mil is good for war, but set up for war is difficult: no culture buildings, no fast workers to build mines and roads, no scout to find decent sites, no food bonus. The Legionary is great, but the window of oppurtunity is small.

[Mace]

I'm playing a Roman game right now, on Regent.
I found myself on a large continent, but a little near the southern end. I now stand in the early middle ages; using Legions I was able to destroy the 3 other civs on my continent. This is good for my warmonger strat.

Now I'm debating, since I've conquered the known world, should I stay Monarchy, or switch to Republic (or Dem when I get it)...
There are 4 civ's unknown to me...

[vmxa1]

You may want to start your own thread for this.
In nay event I would go to Republic as you will not be fighting continuously now that you have the land mass to yourself.

[Tall Stranger]

Definitely don't wait until democracy to change governments. With no other rivals on your continent, switch to republic and then build a couple of ships to try to find the other civs.

(vmxa1's right, tho. This should be in a different thread.)

[Theseus]

A good review, Ision, but... I am not quite so quick to dismiss Rome as a second-rate civ.

One must simply play accordingly: You know that 1) Legions are supreme, 2) with C3C the upgrade is very expensive, and 3) you don't want a despotic GA.

Simple: Focus on commerce, Warriors, and a beeline for Monarchy. Don't worry about tech, you'll be extorting it soon enough. When the Legions are ready to unleash hell, you will be indomitable.

Admittedly, a strategically 'narrow' civ in that sense, although after the care and feeding of neighbors you can expand your options and plan, especially being commercial.

But if you are OK with being a Legion warmonger, Rome is all but unstoppable. Thus... second-rate? I think not.

SPQR

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by gunkulator
The Legionary is great, but the window of oppurtunity is small.

I've been trying to improve my early game lately (not very successfully, it seems!) and have played quite a few to the beginning of the middle-ages then started again - all with the Romans for some reason.

I'd have to agree in general with Ision's review. The biggest frustration I find is that, as Gunkulator has said, the window of opportunity for using the UU with dominance is quite small, and once MI is available you can no longer build the Legionnairel. Even though MI has greater attack, it's defence of 2 sucks in comparison to the Legionnaire.

A bigger issue to me though is the timing of your GA, which also serves to further narrow the UU's window of opportunity. As Theseus points out, you don't want a despotic GA, which really effectlively prevents you waging an Ancient Age war with your all powerful UU.

So the best way to combine a timely GA with effective use of the UU is to switch to Republic (or Monarchy) at the end of the Ancient Age (hopefully after you've built a bunch of marketplaces), then start a war pretty much straight away before there are too many pikes around.

The GA will also help boost your research rate - I've found that I'm able to keep up through most of the ancient age by careful selection of techs (ie, writing/philosophy/code of laws) and then trading them, but during the long grind towards republic the AI seems to catch up and pass me on every occasion, so that by the time I'm in the middle ages they've all got monotheism, feudalism and engineering! Perhaps someone could straighten me out with some advice there?

Still, playing the Romans is fun and challenging. REXing is certainly tougher, and consequently I tend to leave my cities less guarded while I'm trying to pump out settlers, which leaves me open to a massive "game over" attack by the AI.

Tough Civ to play as a builder I think, which is what I generally am.

[Artifex]

I am thinking that you shoudl go ahead and use your UU right away, the despotic GA is bad but if you wait then by the time you have beomce monarchy everyone has feudalism and your legions are outdated and a subpar unit by then

The power of the Legion is that it is available early, you must use it..

or just play another civ. The legion is too good not to use.

Waiting until feudalism..then just play another civ..and trust me by the time you have monarchy and are done with the revolution...the other civs will have pikes and feudalism..or be very close..at least on higher diffs.

[DrSpike]

The Romans have their place, but the point they are usually herded into a narrow strat is a fair one. They are exceptionally good at it though.

For making the Romans more suitable for a diplo/spaceship game the lesser of 2 evils IMO is an early GA, grab land, then switch to republic.

[axxessdenied]

I've been reading all your analysis, and have found them to be quite informative. Curious as to when you're going to post your next one

[vmxa1]

Now that he posted the Mon to Emp opus, maybe another civ will be forth coming.