Changes in C3C...

Zero · January 19, 2004, 14:46

I dont have C3C yet and I'm aware that all the traits have been chnaged for existing civs. What are their new traits?

and any unit balance changes? (only one i heard about was the musketeer)

vmxa1 · January 19, 2004, 17:14

Seafaring and Ag are the new traits and some civs had theirs changed. Some units were addressed.

There are threads here to list all the data. Also a recent attempt is under way to list the changes to Civ over time from CivIII to now and the patches impacts.

Zero · January 19, 2004, 23:57

it would have been even better if i got a link with ur post....

vmxa1 · January 20, 2004, 05:06

If I knew them off the top of my head, I would have posted them, sorry.

MrWhereItsAt · January 20, 2004, 06:21

There's a whole heap of info here assembled from mostly before release, but most of it is accurate.

The thread on Strategy changes between versions is here.

This includes most of the info from the readme.

Otherwise, you should really look at www.civ3.com

swat-spas2 · January 23, 2004, 05:36

CIVS
Added seafaring trait, cheaper water-based buildings (harbors/offshore) extra trade on coastal cities, faster ships, less likely to sink
Added agricultural, cheaper aqueducts and environmental (solar/recycling), bonus food on city tile and on irrigated desert, bonus food works in despot w/ rivers!

Aztecs, agri not religious
Iroquis, agri & commericial (religious/expansion)
England, seafaring not expansionist, unique boats can 'enslave', creates free new boat when it wins
Spain, seafaring not commericial
Vikings, seafaring not expansionist
Celts, agri not military
Carthage, seafaring not commericial

Added Sumeria, agri/science gets a 2D warrior
Added Hittites, expan/commer gets a 2/2/2 chariot (costs more)
Added Dutch, agri/sea gets a 1/4 pikeman (swiss merc)
Added Portugal, sea/expan, gets a 2/2 caravel that doesn't sink in ocean (carrack)
Added Byzantines, sci/sea, gets a 2/1 galley with bombard (can kill boats) (dromon)
Added Inca, agri/expan, gets a 1/1/2 scout that ignores hill/mts.
Added Mayans, agri/industrial, gets javelineer instead of archers, 2/2/1, can 'enslave', free workers..

TECHS
They also changed some of what techs you get initially with some civs, based on new setups.
Ironclads a new tech (not required)
Fascism new tech (after nationalism)
Navigation required for map-trades
Printing press required for communication trading
Philosophy gives you a free tech if you get it 1st
Satellites reveals the map

First civ to a tech has % of a sci leader (sci civs have higher %, like military has better % of leaders there)
These are the only way to rush a wonder now, small wonders and armies for military leaders.
They can also give a 'golden age' like effect on science for 20 turns

Upped the upgrade cost to 3x, instead of 2x.
Upped wealth to 1 to 4 (not 8)/1 to 2 w/ economics

GOVT
Communism gives 6 units for any city/ 4 martial law
Republic gives 1/3/4 units per city but cost 2 per overlimit
Added Fascism. workers work 2X faster (faster than democracy) 4/7/10 units
Anytime you take over a city with fas. the city loses pop and you cannot generate culture until you have majority there. . same as republic corruption factor (no trade bonus). When you switch YOU lose some pop in your cities too. 1/2/3 in losses
Feualism 5/2/1 units (yes its backward), costs 3 per over the limit. you get martial law but you also get war-weariness for some reason. monarchy corruption.

BUILDINGS/WONDERS
Barracks puts little sword icon up when you have one
most 'Building' based wonders generate trade after they age (tourists)
Great Wall gives walls in all cities
Shakespeare gives a 'hospital' in the city its built in.
Military academy gives a 1/6 bonus A/D to all armies
Armies are much improved, 1/6 bonus A/D, plus an extra movement to min unit in army.
Added Temple of Artemis, (polytheism) gives a free temple until education costs 500 (more than newton)
Added Statue of Zeus, (math and ivory) gives a free cav 3/2/2 unit every 5 turns for free, only way to get these (cost 200) ends at metallurgy
Added Mausoleum, like a free cathedral in the city, cost 200, never expires (philosophy)
Added Knights Templar, (chivalry), gives a free crusader (5/3/1) every 5 turns. expires at steam power (300)
SPHQ, communist only sm. wonder. 3rd palace for corruption effects. (200)
Significant corruption changes, reworked how FP works. Final changes when patched at Feb end (wait for alexman to study it probably)

TERRAIN
Added tile resources (like wheat)
Sugar, 1f/1t (plains/hills)
Fruit, 1f/1t (jungle)
Oasis, 2f (desert)
Tobacco, 1t (grassland/hills)
Added marsh terrain. Can't build cities on it until you drain, becomes ocean if 'pollution effects' -- drain into grassland.
acts like jungle (no wheeled units and causes disease) has oil, fish, game, rubber on it. (fish on land is funny looking!)
you can build roads and outposts on it, but nothing else.
Added volcanoes. 3 sheilds. Cannot build anything on it. chance of eruptions which can level your city next to it and throw pollution all over the place by it.

UNITS
Marines 12/6 120 , upped amphib attack too (+25%?)
Added modern paras, get w/ modern armor. 6/11 110 drop from 8
Archer/musket type units have a zero range bombard, so when you attack a stack, they act like defending artillery and pot shot your assault. Also TOW and Guerilla
Certain artillery can crater the land (lowers tile production) once no improvements remain.
Increased most naval units movement starting with Frigates. destroyers are 8 now, subs 4, etc
Ironclads, 5/6/3 6/1/2 bombard
Transports 2D , carry 6 now, AI escorts better.
Carrier 8D, same thing about escorting, AA of 1
Subs get a selective attack on boats (stealth attacks)
Destroyers get sonar AA 1
BB - AA 2
AEGIS AA of 3, 15/10/7 now
Bombard code reworked so units get higher priority, port navies and air units on ground get highest.
Fighters can kill boats, lowered bombard (3), rng of 6
Bombers can kill boats and units. rng of 10
Helos can carry 3, cost 100
Jets rng of 9, kill boats, low bombard (3)
Stealth fighter, kill all, stealth attack, now 8/6/12 instead of 0/0/8. lowered bombard
Stlh. Bomber, stealth attack 18 bombard, range of 16 now, kill all. D of 5
Army costs 400 now
Jags cost 15
Musketeer 2/5 now
Cossacks can blitz but cost more
F-15 can kill anything and gets to pick the targets
Privateers have defensive bombard, and enslave free privateers when they win
Hwacha got the lethal kill like they were supposed to, bombard same as cannon.
Added trebuchet 6 bombard (engineering) 30
Added Cruiser 15/10/6 (combustion) 160, 7/1/2, 1 AA
Crusaders can make forts too.
Added Curragh, (alphabet), boat unit, 1/1/2. (15), not transport
Paratroopers 4/9, drop 6 (90)
Added TOW Infantry 12/14/1 (120) 6/0/1 bombard w/rocketry
Added Flak 1/6/1 AA 2 (70) flight
Added SAMs 1/6/2 AA 4 (100) rocketry

Chopping Forest is faster, mines take longer.
You can add to a fort barricades, which stop enemy units moving through the square, and give 100% d bonus to any unit in the fort. Think of it as a minefield for your bunker or a moat for your castle?

Added for scenario building flavors. These affects the type of things a civ likes and works (in tests so far) with techs ok, not so good with buildings or units.

Victory screen added, tracks victory conditions, like score, % of pop/land, etc.
Added 2 difficulty, demigod is tweener for deity and emperor. Sid is like godmode for the AI.

No city view artwork at present.

vmxa1 · January 23, 2004, 12:16

Nice list.

steven8r · January 23, 2004, 13:49

Thanks swat-spas2

Nice work.
Lots of good info.

One minor correction: TOW Infantry available w/ Rocketry

Steven

swat-spas2 · January 23, 2004, 14:22

right right, i fixed it. Units i did mostly off the top of my head at the time.. for some reason i thought you got them with mechs. doh.

There is also the noted, but undocumented, nerf to industrious trait. Its now only 50%, not 100% for workers.
Didn't they semi-nerf religious too?
Not really sure why, considering how powerful both new attributes are.. but thats just me.

Zero · January 23, 2004, 14:55

wow... nice. thanks.

I might get C3C sooner than i planned because of so much positive changes.

Theseus · January 23, 2004, 19:49

Here's a unit summary spreadsheet I made:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=102592

MrWhereItsAt · January 24, 2004, 06:31

Oh I remember....

Any changes to be made to that spreadsheet with this info, Theseus? I can't view it where I am.

Theseus · January 24, 2004, 14:55

What info, MWIA?

David Murray · January 25, 2004, 07:12

>>Didn't they semi-nerf religious too? <<

It's two full turns of anarchy now.

swat-spas2 · January 25, 2004, 13:30

Thats what I thought. That sucks.

Azeem · January 25, 2004, 13:31

Two turns is a lot better than having to wait 6 turns.

MrWhereItsAt · January 28, 2004, 07:08

Quote:

Originally posted by Theseus
What info, MWIA?

Sorry, the Australian National University are being b*stards with Internet allocation to guests

I meant any of the above info posted about C3C and changes to units etc that may have been missed out from your spreadsheet.

MrWhereItsAt · February 13, 2004, 05:56

Just realised there's a few that haven;t made it into swat_spas2's list:

Wonders
The following Wonders had their attributes changed:

Colossus
PtW: Expansionistic, Religious, Commercial
C3C: Expansionistic, Seafaring, Commercial

Cure for Cancer
PtW: Scientific
C3C Scientific & Acgricultural

Great Lighthouse
PtW: Expansionistic & Commercial
C3C: Expansionistic, Commercial, Seafaring

[I]Hanging Gardens[/I
PtW: Industrious
C3C: Industrious & Agricultural

Hoover Dam
PtW: Industrious
C3C: Industrious & Agricultural

Magellan's Expedition
PtW: Expansionistic & Commercial
C3C: Expansionistic, Commercial, Seafaring

The Pyramids
PtW: Industrious & Religious
C3C: Industrious, Religious, Agricultural

Smith's Trading Company
PtW: Commercial
C3C: Commercial & Seafaring

Women's Suffrage
PtW: Militaristic
C3C: Agricultural

Also, the following wonders gained the ability to become tourist attractions:

Colossus
Copernicus' Observatory
Great Library
Great Lighthouse
Great Wall
Hangin Gardens
Hoover Dam
JS Bach's Cathedral
Leonardo's Workshop
Mausoleul of Mausollos
Newton's University
Oracle
Pyramids
Shakespeare's Theater
Sistine Chapel
Statue of Zeus
Temple of Artemis
United Nations

This info wasn't in the manual either! I had to get it the hard way....

swat-spas2 · February 13, 2004, 12:12

Good catch. I thought I had the tourist attraction thing list somewhere on my list (on HD), but alas it only said building-based wonders. D'oh. Wonder attributes apparently slipped my mind as a game factor (most of us warmongers don't get golden ages that way.. )

conmcb25 · February 25, 2004, 12:30

OK I have a question on the seafaring trait.

You get a commerce bonus if "coastal".

What does that mean?

Can "coastal" also include inland lakes?

Thats my real question.

Thanks

vmxa1 · February 25, 2004, 12:58

I nevr measured it, but I would think so. Inland lakes are actually coastal tiles, so they should get the bonus.

Risa · February 26, 2004, 03:25

No, they are not. You can't build ships at those cities, so as to any improvement required "coastal".

MrWhereItsAt · February 26, 2004, 06:11

The Commerce bonus means an extra trade arrow in towns/cities etc that are built on coast.

Am looking around for examples of the latter question to answer it properly.

DrSpike · February 26, 2004, 08:57

Quote:

Originally posted by conmcb25
Can "coastal" also include inland lakes?

Thats my real question.

Thanks

No. Founding next to an inland lake is the same as founding anywhere.

swat-spas2 · February 26, 2004, 11:25

Inland lakes are sources of fresh water. You need a sea square in the lake in order for it to qualify as a coastal area. If you cannot build a harbor there, I would assume the game knows its not a coastal town. Most inland lakes are just free aqueducts in other words.