PEACE Communication

[Frankychan]

Oh, the drama!

This is indeed turning out to be a very good ACDG.

[Micha]

Yeah, now the story starts getting interesting...

[Snowflake]

From Makahlua

PEACE escape route
Just wanted you to know where to spot us; we'll be skirting the DJ coastline, and hanging a turn around Conshelf 57 (or is that 59?) in about 4 turns. Our course may wiggle around a bit to throw off pursuit; we have a light escort with the colony transport, and the rest of the fleet is playing 'Bait' with the Borg cruisers

Anyway, we should be seeing you folks shortly; btw where are we supposed to park?

I would really appreciate some suggestions.

[Snowflake]

I was hoping they would be in range of our needlejet soon so CC won't be able to attack it.

[Mead]

Originally posted by HongHu
From Makahlua


I would really appreciate some suggestions.

I was initially thinking someplace up north near Jamski's Redemption, so we could better protect them.

Now I am thinking, let them place the CP at the first place they can reach (if they can place it at all before their last city falls).

If I understand correctly, once their last base falls they lose that CP as well as the rest of their units.

Mead

[Snowflake]

Really? I thought in SP games sometimes when you conqure the last base of an AI it will tell you that they have fled in a colony pod.

[Micha]

Originally posted by HongHu
Really? I thought in SP games sometimes when you conqure the last base of an AI it will tell you that they have fled in a colony pod.

That depends on whether you allowed defeated factions to restart or played "total annihilation". If you chose the former, the faction will get a CP somewhere else on planet to start all over again, while with the latter option all units are destroyed when the last base falls. This is because of "support". A CP needs support by a base. Though I don´t know whether you could evade this problem by building clean CPs or by getting "independent" units...

(Is it possible to get an independent CP?)

[Frankychan]

Comrade Micha is correct. If you defeat a faction early in the game and are not playing the 'do not restart eliminated factions' they will flee in a "colony pod" and restart somewhere else.

But in this case, if they have a colony pod out and their last standing base falls to the CPU, then they will be eliminated. As far as my knowledge, you can't get an independent CP. The base that made it will have it listed as a unit until the new base is established.

They, PEACE, should try not waste time establishing their base, because if that last base falls, then its game over for them. I think we should find out where the Drones think it would be best for them to establish the PEACE bastion. I would hate for us to be the only one's that have to protect them....

[Googlie]

Well, the technicalities in PBEMs dictate that PEACE has to self-destruct their last base, after evidence is presented that the CyCon can destroy it that turn. Colony pods in transit, or units away from the base are simultaneously eliminated.

Otherwise, if the CC do destroy the base, then the year flips over to the start of the next, and the Drones would lose their turn.

Agreed-upon procedure is for the self destruct, which must be requested by the CyCon - if PEACE try stalling, then either Tass or I take a midturn save from the Borgs and confirm that PEACE would be destroyed, then rule it so.

G.

[Frankychan]

Thanks GooglieGod.

So, if the CC/CPU/whatevers takes PEACE's last base, but does not request the self-destruct, is it still ok for PEACE to establish their last base?

Jeez, things are getting really complex now.

[Snowflake]

My PM to Makahlua:

Hi Makahlua,

I have just looked at the turn. Your strategy sounds fine to the Hive. The only thing we may worry is that you need to make sure you are able to set up your new base before your other bases fall to the CCs.

Here's a post by Googliegod in Hive's forum.

Quote:

Well, the technicalities in PBEMs dictate that PEACE has to self-destruct their last base, after evidence is presented that the CyCon can destroy it that turn. Colony pods in transit, or units away from the base are simultaneously eliminated. Otherwise, if the CC do destroy the base, then the year flips over to the start of the next, and the Drones would lose their turn. Agreed-upon procedure is for the self destruct, which must be requested by the CyCon - if PEACE try stalling, then either Tass or I take a midturn save from the Borgs and confirm that PEACE would be destroyed, then rule it so. G.

What that means to me is that you need to really think how many turns you are sure your other bases would be able to last and make sure your colony pod reach a peaceful water before that. From your current direction of the colony pod it looks to me the area south of the Hive land would be a good place for you, however if you cannot reach there, please simply choose the best place under the situation.

I have managed to save about 50 ecs in this turn. Would that be helpful to you at all? Please let me know. I plan to post the turn 20 hours from now.

Hong

Quote:

Just wanted you to know where to spot us; we'll be skirting the DJ coastline, and hanging a turn around Conshelf 57 (or is that 59?) in about 4 turns. Our course may wiggle around a bit to throw off pursuit; we have a light escort with the colony transport, and the rest of the fleet is playing 'Bait' with the Borg cruisers Anyway, we should be seeing you folks shortly; btw where are we supposed to park?

[Mead]

When I looked at Peace's F4 screen I noticed that Peace has two Colony Pods.

This may mean that they can establish a temporary base with one of the CPs, just before its last city falls, while the other continues to seek safety from us.

The temporary base only has to remain free until the other CP makes it to us and establishes a base.


Mead

[Vander]

Any thought on building a SCP, building a sea city, then giving to them?

[Micha]

Originally posted by Vander
Any thought on building a SCP, building a sea city, then giving to them?

You cannot cede bases to another faction in PBEMs. To do so, you´d have to revoke the pact, declare war, let them conquer the base, declare peace and sign a new pact. The problem is that it consumes several turns and we´d lose money when they conquer our base.

Wasn´t their even a BDrone-change when you´re losing bases during war? Or was it only in Civ3?

[Snowflake]

PM from Makahlua:

Re: PEACE escape route
Well, insofar as I know, they (CyCon) probably think the 'escape pod' is the one we have up on Yardarm Isle by a base they almost have control of. I think they only have one cruiser 'sport, and I can still see the invasion force on a different isle a good few turns by cruiser to the south.

A map for you:

http://apolyton.net/upload/view.php...2160tactmap.jpg

Red stars are the 2 Cycon forces I can see - a lone cruiser in the north picking off the newer lightest defended bases; and the marine invasion fleet in the south. I've projected move ranges and turns, but that assumes for the southern fleet they won't stop to heal or will suffer light losses. We should have an Imapct defender finished prototyping by the time the invasion force arrives @ Pamplona, but I'm not counting my mindworms before they hatch ^^ That northern cruiser force may just sail in and park -or- they might head south to join the assault on Atlantis (furthest east colony); as I can't predict that, I made no projections.

White stars are the colony convoy headed for the hive
and we are going to use that pod for an inland base; we also have 2 unity rovers with the northern CP that I may be able to upgrade shortly So, er yes, we -could- use the credits - any unit we can rush to delay them is another turn of time that allows us to get to the Hive! Let me know if you have any harbors we could sail into on the sou'east side there so we can unload our colonists easier, if you would be so kind (Screenshot perhaps?)

[Snowflake]

[Snowflake]

I didn't realize that they didn't have sea pod. That means it will take longer time too. And we need to find them a place to live on our land.

[Micha]

Maybe that Island north of Jamski´s redemption? But it´s too far to be the first base... That´s really tricky...

Maybe we really need to let them conquer one of our bases...

[Kody]

[Mead]

Originally posted by Kody

OK, Kody, I feel your pain.

Peace could land on that island southeast of us and we could then land choppers and Needlejets in it to protect it.


Come to think of it I am starting to like that idea.

It will mean that they get to establish a base far quicker; and

It will give us a nice base from which to launch an invasion to threaten CyCon; and

We won't have to worry about giving up any of our territory to them; and

We won't have to go through the break Pact dance to allow them to establish a base.


Here is a copy of what I posted in the Thread 2157 describing the mechanics of what we will have to do in order to allow Peace to establish a base in Hive territory.


BEGIN COPY
They can establish a base on our southern coastline, even though it is in our territory.

They can only do this if they are not in a Pact with us.


I just ran a simulation on an old Trans SMAX single player game save I had to test this. This is what I found:

I was playing Hive, Pactmate was Cult.

While in Pact I tried to establish a base in Cultist territory and the following message came up.

"Chairman, our Pact of Brotherhood with Prohet Cha Dawn of the Planet Cult Precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory."

So, I clicked on the Comm menu and right click broke the Pact. The following message came up.

"Our Pact of Brotherhood with the Planet Cult has ended. All Cultist units have been removed from our territory. 5 units have been removed from cultist territitory and returned to our nearest bases."

I reloaded the test game, broke the Pact and then moved a colony pod into Cultist territory and, while in treaty but not in Pact, I tried to establish a base. I got the following message with two options.

"Chairman, our treaty with Prophet Dawn of the Planet Cult precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory.

NEVER MIND

BREAK TREATY

OK"

I then chose to break the treaty and my base was established.

The Cults then went into Vendetta against me.



From this test I conclude the following if we are going to allow Peace to establish a base on our territory:

1. Peace and us must break Pact before they enter our territory otherwise all of their units that are within our territory will automatically be returned to their nearest base once we break pact.

2. Once we break Pact their units and our units will not be able to occupy the same squares (or move through us) until we restablish Pact.

3. They must build their base before we reestablish Pact.

4. Once they build their base in our territory it is very likely that the game will automatically change the Treaty between us to Vendetta and we will have to restablish the Pact manually.

5. We need to be careful not to have our units in a position that would block their movement, because once we are out of Pact they cannot move through our units or occupy the same square.

6. Because I am not sure what would happen if both Peace and Hive units occupiped the same square, outside of both the Hive and Peace territory, when Pact was broken I think we should avoid it.

6a. We should also be careful not to try to move our units into the same square as their's while in treaty. Attempting to do so will result in attacking and destroying their units.

7. When we escort the Peace units in let's have our units behing them, providing a rear guard action.

8. Let's get them landed, established, and protected as soon as possible.
END COPY


Let's really think about having them establish their base on that island and then basing a couple of needlejets and choppers there to patrol and protect.


Mead

[Micha]

Sounds like a plan.

[Snowflake]

I like Mead's idea. I will copy your post to them.

[Snowflake]

My PM to Makahlua:

Makahlua,

I didn't realize that you didn't have a sea colony pod. This means you need a land square to establish your base. We have had some discussions inside the Hive. We would let you set your base at our land, however, this would mean we have to go through a very complex process of breaking pact, become vendetta, and reestablish pact. This may require more time than you would have. The best solution to us is for you to set up your base at the island southeast of the Hive and we send some forces to protect it. We will have penetrators that can fly to your base as soon as it is up and as soon as we build a transport we would be able to ship a couple plasma garrison and probes also. The first production of your new base in my opinion should be a defense probe (0-0-1 probe).

I'm attaching a local map for your reference.


I'm also attaching a post from Comrade Mead in the Hive forum. Hopefully it will help you understand more about the establishing base at pact member teritory issue.

Quote:

They can establish a base on our southern coastline, even though it is in our territory. They can only do this if they are not in a Pact with us. I just ran a simulation on an old Trans SMAX single player game save I had to test this. This is what I found: I was playing Hive, Pactmate was Cult. While in Pact I tried to establish a base in Cultist territory and the following message came up. "Chairman, our Pact of Brotherhood with Prohet Cha Dawn of the Planet Cult Precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory." So, I clicked on the Comm menu and right click broke the Pact. The following message came up. "Our Pact of Brotherhood with the Planet Cult has ended. All Cultist units have been removed from our territory. 5 units have been removed from cultist territitory and returned to our nearest bases." I reloaded the test game, broke the Pact and then moved a colony pod into Cultist territory and, while in treaty but not in Pact, I tried to establish a base. I got the following message with two options. "Chairman, our treaty with Prophet Dawn of the Planet Cult precludes us from building bases in Cultist territory. NEVER MIND BREAK TREATY OK" I then chose to break the treaty and my base was established. The Cults then went into Vendetta against me. From this test I conclude the following if we are going to allow Peace to establish a base on our territory: 1. Peace and us must break Pact before they enter our territory otherwise all of their units that are within our territory will automatically be returned to their nearest base once we break pact. 2. Once we break Pact their units and our units will not be able to occupy the same squares (or move through us) until we restablish Pact. 3. They must build their base before we reestablish Pact. 4. Once they build their base in our territory it is very likely that the game will automatically change the Treaty between us to Vendetta and we will have to restablish the Pact manually. 5. We need to be careful not to have our units in a position that would block their movement, because once we are out of Pact they cannot move through our units or occupy the same square. 6. Because I am not sure what would happen if both Peace and Hive units occupiped the same square, outside of both the Hive and Peace territory, when Pact was broken I think we should avoid it. 6a. We should also be careful not to try to move our units into the same square as their's while in treaty. Attempting to do so will result in attacking and destroying their units. 7. When we escort the Peace units in let's have our units behing them, providing a rear guard action. 8. Let's get them landed, established, and protected as soon as possible. Mead

[Mead]

There's something I am not sure of.

How certain are we that we can rely on the Peace's loyalty?

What assurances do we have?

Are we (have we) entering into a perma-pact with them?

What exactly is our relationship with them?

What is the relationship between the Drones and Peace?

Mead

[Snowflake]

My take on this is that we the Hive would be the protector of the PEACE. They will still have their own will but they will not be included in the cooperative victory of Hive and Drone, or at least will be included as a jonior member.

My view is that we could do the same thing that we plan to do with the Drones. That is to permit them enter our forum and we enter theirs if they also agree. I am not sure the Drones want to do that or not.

We can still have more discussions about this since we have not discussed it with the PEACE yet. One thing I would like to say is that I do not believe that they will betray us and go in the CPU's embrace. Not after they have so brutally murdered so many of their people. At least if I were them, I wouldn't.

[Frankychan]

I was thinking the same thing as Comrade Mead. If this is a giant ruse, it's being done well.

For instance, what if PEACE and the CPU have decided that in order of them to get a foothold on our land, they would have to establish a base. To make it look genuine the CPU attacks PEACE and has them put a pod on our beaches. This new base essentially becomes a screen door for their invasion.

While this might not be a likely scenario, we should at least keep within Hive tradition and hold suspicion toward outsiders. Are the Drones contributing at all to PEACE's survival or does the responsibility fall soley onto us?

Protecting them may very well draw resources, attention, and units away from area's that they may be needed. I think our main focus should be between the Drones and ourselves. If PEACE starts getting back into the game and become a nuisance and decide to attack us when our attention is somewhere else, we may be in for a struggle.

[Snowflake]

Well my personal opinion is if this is what the CPU is planning they've been going to long way and won't get them a lot reward either, especially if we are going to keep PEACE at the island away from our main land. If you guys don't feel to trust them enough, we do not have to invite them into our forums. We'll protect them until they don't need us. We'll be able to fend of them if they turn against us. But all people with some sense will despise them if they do that.

[Frankychan]

True.....Hey, Kody pointed this out, but on the map where it's giving the leaders for Tech, Militar, etc....overall it says 'turnplayer enigma'. What's up with that?

[Snowflake]

I didn't know how to change it.

[Snowflake]

I have notified the PEACE about the upcoming motion.

The Hive would like to inform the PEACE that we are prepared to submit a motion to the planetary council for a resolution of the CC-PEACE war. I'm attaching a draft here for your reference. Please do not disclose it to the other factions before we submit it to the council.

Quote:

To the Planetary Council Motion of Ceasefire and Returning of the PEACE Bases By the Human Hives Dear Governor, dear Planetary Council Members, The Human Hives would like to express its great concerns about the recent intense conflict between the CPU and PEACE. The CPU-PEACE war has so far lasted seven years and has had a devastating impact on the peaceful development of the planet. The Hive is concerned over reports of increasing violations of international humanitarian law. We are gravely concerned that given the increasing likelihood of an thorough occupation of the PEACE territory by the CPU forces, coupled with the approaching winter, the situation in PEACE has the potential to become an even greater humanitarian disaster. It has become more and more apparent that the continuation or further escalation of the conflict between CPU and PEACE has dangerous implications for the stability of the region. The Hive believes that the Planetary Council has overriding obligation to stop the suffering of innocent civilians and prevent a de-stabilising conflict spreading to other countries in the planet. The Hive motions the Council to take immediate action to consider this matter in order to prevent a humanitarian disaster and a threat to stability throughout the Planet. The Hive affirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the PEACE and the right of all refugees and displaced persons to return to their homes. The Hive calls for an immediate ceasefire from the CPU and the return of at least half of the PEACE bases. We emphasizes that the authorities of the Planet Council must achieve a political solution to condemn the CPU invasion of the PEACE territory and to establish that all violence and acts of terrorism from the CPU are unacceptable. Chairman Voltaire

We would also welcome any eye witness account of the damage of the war and any unhumantary actions by the CC force. We will include some articals on this regard in the upcoming Pravda.

Ambassador HongHu