Comments, Questions, and an Inaguration...

[Starfarer]

This is, for the record, my first post here. Greetings and salutations all.

In any case, I, being the avid player of Alpha Centauri that I am, have been playing it for years. I snapped up the Laptop Collection the moment I saw it, and while the incidental inclusion of red Alert 2 and SimCity 3000 Unlimited was icing on the cake, the real chocolate was what i spend the twenty bucks for, Alien Crossfire.

In any case... I've read through a lot of Alpha Centauri information over the last few months, and I've come to a rather humbling conclusion.

You guys are a hell of a lot better at this than I am.

Then again, I disagree with many of your tactics on principles that make no sense to the mathematically inclined and a lot less to those who have no clue why the hell I'm so screwed up when it comes to games.

See, the way I play is to play the hell out of a game, pick my favorite tactics, come up with a few on my own, and test them out. I was one of the first guys to commonly use an Arbiter-Recall-Rush to take out an enemy's main base in Starcraft. And while I'm proud of that, I must admit that's the extent of my brilliance... a tactic so pedestrian less than a year after i started doing it that it's not even commonplace anymore because it's so "cheesy".

In any case, most of my tactics for play are considered "amateurish" here. For example, whenever I make bases, I make absolutely certain that if m,ore than two squares total are going t overlap at all, I make my base elsewhere. Another example? I never, ever, ever field a large army. in fact, the extent of my armies are almost entirely garrison troops and a total of MAYBE about three to five attack units, which rarely see use because I so thoroughly outclass the computer players in terms of tech and power that I can let them spend entire armies trying to take my bases and never worry about it.

I also have high standards for myself... sepcifically, if I ever lose a base, I quit the game immediately. Period. Ditto if I lose a greatly important Special Project that I can't conquer anytime in the next hundred turns or so. (Human Genome Project for Zakharov, Virtual World for Zakky too... Weather Paradign for anyone if I can get it, stuff like that)

I also tend to play with rulesets that seem to be outnof favor here... Tech Stagnation on, Blind research on, Flexible Start Locations off, Steal Tech off, or on if I'm playing without the Consciousness, stuff like that.

I also detest Free Market. But then, the 5 point hit in police pisses me off to no end, and that sways me.

In original SMAC, I played almost exclusively as the University, switching when I wanted a challenge, running on Democracy, Green, Knowledge. Or, if I didn't want the penalty, I'd cut democracy. I've never consciously gone for a "pop boom"... My bases grow too often as it is, and eventually, reducing base size by massing colony pods and sending them to all corners of the map becomes inefficient LONG before you can make Hab Complexes.

I've also never made a land-based "crawler park".

And I absolutely LOVE the Data Angels.

And I've SUCCECSSFULLY played Yang as a builder. Not at Transcend difficulty yet, but... I've done it at Librarian, I think it is.

Honestly, I'm glad I'm not as good as you guys are.

I don't have to miss the joy of learning new things, or of still having the game be challenging. My play methods make the world challenging. Sure, I bet I could play Transcend and win easily using all you guy's methods... but I'd rather not. To me, I'd rather refine me own... and eventually, maybe, someday, redeem my methods as servicable.

So I'm curious... does anyone else here play like I do?

I mean... I can consistently beat the computer out in every single area by mid game. I can unite every faction against me and struggle for a win. That's why I uped my normal difficulty level again... it got too easy...

I dread the day Transcend is too easy.

I think that's the day I'll stop playing...

Ta.

[Frankychan]

First off, Congrats on coming here and posting!

Not all of us are the mathematicians here. But I've learned a few tricks (the Solar "Park" i think it's called, for one)

I've beat the game ONCE on Transcend. I have no idea how I did that, but it was awesome.

For myself, I don't really care if I lose a base, unless I'm playing "spoils of war"....then I get royally pissed. I also do not use Free Market (because of the police thing).

And I'm a Disciple of Yang. Glad to meet you.

Good to see another person enjoying the fruits of SMAC/X!

[The Mad Monk]

Welcome, and have fun!

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by The Mad Monk
Welcome, and have fun!

You can contribute more than that, you know.

[The Mad Monk]

Really?

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Starfarer
And I absolutely LOVE the Data Angels.

Wheee, a fellow fan. Datatech Roze can probe me all she wants...

I'd dare to say we agree on a lot of things based on your post. There are few exceptions but we'll come to that in a bit. Naturally, everybody can play in whatever way they want. Personally I prefer to avoid tactics that seems twinkish to me such as building supply crawlers solely for cashing them in for special projects and so on and exploiting bugs are for me. If others want to, that ain't my problem. It's all about playing preferences

What we do differ on would be the military. I often field a large military. I never declare vendetta, I just don't seem to have any problem having others declaring those on me. I never accept a blood truce - I take a huge pleasure in annihilating enemy units after units until their leader grovel on knees to me for the priviledge of having me taking over what's left of their faction. Otherwise, I just continue until all of their men has been slaugthered and females and children entered into lifetime bondage to the glory of my sprawling faction. Aliens... exterminated to the last.

As for losing a base or failing to get to a special project before others, I just pout for a bit and go on playing.

BTW we bought that laptop collection for the same reason - Alien Crossfire.

Alright I definitely need to go to bed so let me bid you welcome!

[Blake]

I play a lot like that, but I do run FM. But usually lazily, like as the PK, or only when I can afford to always rush rec commons for new bases.

Things i do simialler include playing "hostile" settings, little flat/arid planets and blind+undirected tech and using the Hive to boot. Sure the AI also suffers from the settings but the AI have long since ceased to be a challenge.

I generally have a very small standing military, unless I decide the AI needs to be conquered, but I only build it when I need it.

The main point of difference is I dont quit when I lose a base or SP... not that I lose bases, but it's interesting to play without an important SP, like Builder Yang without the WP. Also I play all factions.

Ofcourse I've tried everything, like crawler parks, and crawling everything that moves and doesn't. But those things are generally too tedious for me to bother with in many games.

My favourite faction is the Data Angels, in both ways that count. I very much agree with their ideology and I like their faction bonuses, which gives a lot of flexibility in strategies, they are one of the best Momentum faction with the ability to immediately run planned and build probes to steal tech. They are also one of the best builder factions with the ability to run FM and no nasty penalties, plus their money goes further thanks to cheaper probe action costs - the excellent probes allows for a more peaceful style of play, sometimes I even use armored probes for garrisons (Higher morale thx to probe bonus, no support cost, a barrier against enemy probes)

[Lazerus]

I also have high standards for myself... sepcifically, if I ever lose a base, I quit the game immediately. Period. Ditto if I lose a greatly important Special Project that I can't conquer anytime in the next hundred turns or so. (Human Genome Project for Zakharov, Virtual World for Zakky too... Weather Paradign for anyone if I can get it, stuff like that)

lol talk about perfectionist, not even the very best players manage this every game.

[Hercules]

Welcome aboard Starfarer:

I like the Data Angels in Sp but find them a darn sight harder in PBem games though I have seen others develop remarkably well. It may depend which faction you are close too or in a PAct with.

Anyhow we look forward to your further contributions.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Welcome welcome. Thank goodness for the laptop collection may stir some interest into these venerable boards.

Firstly, don't be surprised SMAC/X becomes fairly easy and yes you will likely beat transcend without issue in fairly short order.

Despite saying that it still remains my favorite game and will always have a place on my hard drive. So here's hoping we have another convert.



As for your play style, thats the joy of SMAC the differing approaches to the game all have their place. If youchoose a rush strategy you certainly can do so and will be favored or disfavored by certain game setups, Namely tech steal, small world, low water, etc.etc.

If your a builder a game set up is more favorable in large world, directed research, etc.

While exploring the game do not discount the plethora of SE chocies. ALmost all of them have their place and can be used to signifcant effect. Free market is an extremely potent SE chocie if one learns how to master it.

In any event good luck and good SMACing.

[Objulen]

I usually don't build a big military, either, at least until I get clean reactor. Then I spam planes and locusts. Cheese is good!

[Jamski]

The real joy of SMAC is the evilness possible in MP. You should really give it a try.

-Jam

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Hercules


I like the Data Angels in Sp but find them a darn sight harder in PBem games though I have seen others develop remarkably well. It may depend which faction you are close too or in a PAct with.

The Angels are very versatile and I like them a lot -- In fact IIRC I'm the Angels in a PBEM now.

If the game did not have that annoying bug where Probe ratings above +3 get reset to 0, they would be a great faction.

[Flubber]

Sorry double post

[Flubber]

Oh and the game never ceases to be challenging to me-- I win vanilla SP games on transcend but you don't have to play vanilla. Try

1. the switch challenge where you build yourself to first place and then take over the WEAKEST faction. LOts of fun taking on the monster you created with 3 basesor so

2. Play without formers-- I only did it once and it was frustrating as heck

3. Build only one base and do an OCC-- winning the game is not that hard but doing it with additional constraints like not being permitted to build military or you can make it harder and play that you can't ever build a crawler/trawler

Players far better than me find all sorts of ways to keep the game fun and challenging even if they read every tactic around

AS for starfarer-- if you enjoy what you are doing then you are getting everything from the game that you could want. For me, when I found this place, my disbelief ( YAH RIGHT transcend is easy) quickly became amazement at the tactics and strategies I had no idea about. . .. and while I really enjoyed struggling with the game and trying stuff out, I HAD to read about the better ways that are posted on here routinely.

So welcome and enjoy-- but I warn you, if you start reading the threads, you will learn new stuff and just have to try it yourself

[Barinthus]

I remember when I started to participate in those forums, I thought to myself "Holy Smokes, those guys are hardcore!" and I felt way out of my league. Threads on combat and numerical factors affecting the combat itself was too much for this player who simply just point and shout 'Chaaaarrrggeeeee!'

[Starfarer]

*Grins, sketches a quick $4700t to those who prefer the Angels*

Oh, don't get me wrong, guys... every faction has their good points. Except Miriam. Sorry, but a bunch of screaming bloody fanatics who think it's better to turn the entire planet into an Amish paradise simple doesn't appeal to me... *L*

I'm almost exclusively Builder. or hybrid. My approach to war is "an ounce of prevention is worth fifteen Missile Rovers". I do wish the computer AI was smarter about diplomacy (I'm sorry, I don't care how nuts you are, if I'm encamped around you in every direction, have three times your military, and tell you you'd best let me in on your research knowledge lest I kill you, you do it if you don't want to die. The computer invariably dies if they don't have the same SE choices as me.) But in any case. I've learned that my favorite tactics in war are very simple.

Outclass the opponent so utterly that they're begging for you to go away... with two or three units at most.

It's darn difficult to stop three Elite 6-4-2 rovers when the best available tech to the enemy gives them Impact weapons. Or, more likely in my games, I've got 12-6-2 rovers when they've got, at best, the Gatling Lasers.

early-game wars are no chalenge for me... All I have to do is keep an eye out and take out their units with either rovers or upgraded garrison infantry. Middle game is the hardest part for me, just because everyone else is usually somewhere NEAR me on tech until I make a friend.

But I classify "end game" as being anytime after I attain complete tech superiority to the poin t where nobody could catch uyp even if I stopped all lab research entirely.

Which is why, I, like I said, upped my normal difficulty level. And I must admit, I did learn a lot from lurking here before i posted. *L* Most of the tactics I learned here I probably will never use, because I simply see no point in creating an energy park so expansive I learn every tech in one to two turns max... it'd take forever and I could've won by then. *L*

But other commonly accepted tactics, expanding insanely at the beginning for example, is something I learned here and use now. I used to only expand when my first base waas secure, and it always turned out the computer got more space than I did.

But then, they always started a war so I always took THEIR land, so it rarely mattered.

Slowly, but steadily, I'm getting better and better. I prefer not to challenge others in multiplayer until I can be assured of at the very least holding my own.

In any case, it's my pleasure to be a part of this board... I hope my viewpoint provides older, more experienced players with new ideas. After all, that's what I'm here for... to contribute. *L*

Ta.

[Illuminatus]

Welcome Starfarer!

[Frankychan]

Originally posted by DataAeolus
I remember when I started to participate in those forums, I thought to myself "Holy Smokes, those guys are hardcore!" and I felt way out of my league. Threads on combat and numerical factors affecting the combat itself was too much for this player who simply just point and shout 'Chaaaarrrggeeeee!'

Yup, that's me! ROFL. I have learned some valuable strategies here....but I'm still trying to figure out how to force a Pop boom....(despite reading Velocrix ((sp?)) article.

(sorry if I butchered his name!)

[Frankychan]

Starfarer,

Once again, welcome aboard Apolyton. A good place to go despite its reputation is the Off-Topic board. There are a lot of people there with a whole bunch of opinions and philosophical views. I've learned a great deal going there....and probably pissed a few others off with my own statements.

Oh well, good to see another face.

[Bella Hella]

starfarer, you sound like me! i like the angels, too, and it looks like we employ many of the same tactics. it's all about what you personally enjoy getting out of a game, but i found that moving up to higher difficulty levels gave me the challenge i was looking for, and made the game more fun for me. i used to think trancend was utterly impossible, but can handle it pretty well now.

re: miriam and the other faction who you enjoy less, have you ever tried to "role-play" as these factions? that can be really fun, too, and adds an interesting dimension. i used to pretty much play the same way with each faction, until i decided to really BE a spartan. survival of the fittest? okie dokie, then. it was really satisfying to build my military up and systematicaly eliminate the weaker factions simply for being weak. similarly, with the hive, i have fun building tons and tons of bases and ruthlessly crushing anyone who stands in my way. and i definitely consider it pretty cool to terraform nothing but forests as the gaians, and take the eco-wimp thing to heart.

i'm not much for mathematics, either; i just try to figure out what works the best. but this game has so much to offer to a variety of players, whether you're the "crush the opposition" type, the "peaceful and nice-looking builder" type, the "i've calculated the most effective strategy" type, etc.

[Adalbertus]

Welcome!

You can try to play this game as a mathematical thing but it's a hell more difficult than chess to do so
Some posters here really tried to get the mathematics of the game - Ecodamage formula, and most important, turn advantage.

About your tactical comments:
- I think the most important advance I made was the fixed base spacing, which I usually exploit in a way "you'll find the next base site in two turns or quit". Other people see it as a challenge to continue.
- The second most important thing was to realize the bureaucracy limit and to wait until I was ready to make the next step. Which means, on a huge map I only found nine bases and then I focus on SP's - of course all of the "first five" which is to me WP, HGP, ME, VW, and CN. In a few games, I managed to get all of them, mostly as the Drones, despite of their horrible research.
-There is a way to get up a very efficient land-based energy park in reasonable time, but you'll certainly want to figure it out by yourself (Hint: Answer the two questions: How to raise land as fast as efficiently as possible, and how to place energy-producing facilities in the best way.)
- About the military side: Most builder and hybrid-style first try to defend their bases until they get Air Power, MMI, and perhaps clean reactors. When you've got this, planet is yours, military wise. Unfortunately, AI is that lousy.

[Starfarer]

*coughs* Have I mentioned yet that I never bother witht eh bueracracy limit? I'veactually never paid attentiont o it. Not because I don't understand what it means... but rather, because I honestly don't care.

Let's face it, the advantages of so thoroughly outclassing your opponents in tech even with a penalty to research because you've got so many bases and so much energy even only at 40% research allocation to research outweigh the additional drones and occasional loss of a facility due to lack of cash.

At least, to me. I'm sure players would kick my arse because of it, but so far, I've never lost anything critical, and I'm usually so far ahead of the game facility-wise that I can rebuild it easily anyway.

Actually there are a lot of things I never worried about.

*L* And for the record, yeah... i've tried roleplaying. I just... well, prefer not to, as the Believers. I'm so far to the other end of the spectrum as Miriam and her brainwashed moronic folowers are that it's ANNOYING to get into her head...

But it makes for a good shoot-'em-up game every now and then.

In any case, thank you all for the generous greetings. It's good to know there are still places online with a suitable dearth of flamewars.

Ta!

[Adalbertus]

I started to worry about bureaucracy limit when I completely blocked myself in civ 2 after happily expanding and not knowing the intricacies of ICS. It took ages until I had something of a research rate again.
In the later game, there is no more problem for me, because I'm using close base packing with crawler/specialist approach.

[Shai-Hulud]

Welcome Starfarer.

Many of you early strategies certainly bring back some memories. I didn't do much research on "how-to-maximize-efficiency" when I started playing the game. I enjoyed builder more than conqueror and I never considered bureaucracy limits to be a problem.

I remember my first game was at the easiest level and second on Transcend. It took me very little time to beat the Transcend. Never the less I was VERY surprised when I first entered these forums. Strategies I learned here were far too refined and sophisticated for me to learn on my own...it was a real revolution in playing style.

But I've still found many of my old tactics useful...when refined a bit And, It was nice to get polite and intelligent feedback even though I was obviously inferior in my methods