new game

Mart · January 22, 2004, 06:32

Hi, I'm looking for players for pbem games, SMAC and/or SMAX. If interested, please reply. Settings to be decided, (I prefer original 7 factions in both SMAC and SMAX, and wish to play Peacekeepers)

t_ras · January 22, 2004, 16:13

if your using original factions no need for smacx.
it is slightly different only.

any way, i'll take the hive.

binTravkin · January 22, 2004, 18:11

Hi

Id like to join u 2,but not knowin the rules
(especially - victory conditions)
dont know what to take

mmm..lets take an universal one -> I'll be deirdre!

But better get those conditions brained out soon,so i can switch fac if any 1 is loving Deirdre very much..

..shes quite pretty!

..but i prefer Santiago - athletic women r better in sex!

Mart · January 22, 2004, 18:13

Yes, but there are those "small" additions like UNS Unity wreackage and a bit different aliens - fungal towers. I play SMAX mainly for the Unity wreackage, i like the additional graphics and its options

We could start two games or one and decide about which one to play and what settings will be used.

binTravkin · January 22, 2004, 18:49

Well,if u still choose to play SMAC,my comm freq will be wide open!

I have no SMAX & dont want 1 - I dont like it
But the wreckage is quite nice!

Themonger · January 22, 2004, 20:51

Hello everyone,

I'd be up for a game of either (although I prefer classic SMAC)

My faction of choice: UoP

Looking forward to a good game already

-Themonger

t_ras · January 22, 2004, 20:55

mat started thread, he will decide, ill stay any way....
and since you all seem to be setlers you can choose any level (i susualy play tracend).

Themonger · January 23, 2004, 00:25

Quote:

Originally posted by t_ras
mat started thread, he will decide, ill stay any way....
and since you all seem to be setlers you can choose any level (i susualy play tracend).

OK, I suppose I'll just go ahead and vote for map conditions right now and get it out of the way.

All victory Conditions
Directed Research
Transcendant difficulty
no spoils of war
no random events
flexible starting positions
yes to CMN

medium everything for map conditions

I also don't prefer any type of fast start (the built in one, or of the campaign made variety)

Thats what I prefer (I'm up for new things as well, if thats what the group wants to do)

Mr. Harley · January 23, 2004, 00:30

I'll take Morgan, unless the map is too small - then I'll take Santiago. Let's let Mart7x5 decide, since he started the thread. I go with t_ras, I'll support anything Mart7x5 goes with, and I think Thermonger has a good basis to start from - I'd prefer a map that is no smaller than large.

edited to clarify

binTravkin · January 23, 2004, 02:44

Waitin 4 you to decide whether to take SMAC or SMAX

If it is SMAC count me in as Deirdre & add my vote for all posted by themonger,except for cloud cover -> let it be "dense"

I like rain!

Mr. Harley · January 23, 2004, 04:00

Mart, since you've started the thread and have my and t_ras votes, how do you want it. You post and I'll try to find a CNN to set it up.

Mart · January 23, 2004, 05:11

Thank you for joining!

Presently we have the following factions:

Gaia's Stepdaughters...................BinTravkin
Human Hive...............................T_ras
University of Planet.....................Themonger
Morgan Industries.......................Shawnmmcc
Spartan Federation.....................(vacant)
The Lord's Believers....................(vacant)
Peacekeeping Forces...................Mart7x5

If someone wants to change faction, write when there is still time. We play SMAC - original release, as already two persons prefere it. Updated to version 4.0, i think you could have this update (thus having Manifold Nexus and Borehole Cluster), check if this is ok with you.

Map considerations
Please write what you think about playing on some known map, made by someone, and actually known to all players. the advantage is that the map generator mostly creates awful maps, and seems never to be able to put Freshwater Sea the proper way. Polar regions are also not the best. Though when map is created with ocean and erosive forces at average settings, maps are quite good as for land shapes.
Size - maybe Large or Huge, but i would not go for larger map than 64x128, as they recommend in the editor.

Players Preferences
Please write your preferences the way you would play the game, we can just take majority approach. What CMN stands for? I do not know where to put this preference...

Please review your votes in the table below, this is what i understood from your posts, but i may be wrong

Code:

Preference.BinTravkin.T_ras..Themonger.Shawnmmcc.(-)....(-)....Mart

Map size	?	?	?	L-H	-	-	L-H	
Ocean		50-70	?	50-70	50-70	-	-	50-70
Erosion		Aver	?	Aver	Aver	-	-	Weak
Life		Aver	?	Aver	Aver	-	-	Aver	
Clouds		Dense	?	Aver	Aver	-	-	Dense	
Difficulty	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	-	-	Transc.	

Transcend	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Conquest	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Diplomatic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Economic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Cooperative	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Do or Die	?	?	?	?	-	-	No
Flexible start	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Tech stag	?	?	?	?	-	-	No
Spoils of war	No	?	No	No	-	-	No
Blind research	No	?	No	No	-	-	No
Intense riv	?	?	?	?	-	-	No
No survey	?	?	?	?	-	-	Yes
No scatter	?	?	?	?	-	-	No
No rnd events	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	-	-	Yes
Time Warp	No	?	No	No	-	-	No
Iron man	?	?	?	?	-	-	will it change anything?
Rand person	?	?	?	?	-	-	No
Rand social	?	?	?	?	-	-	No

t_ras · January 23, 2004, 06:08

spoils of war yes!!!!
huge map.
no accelarated start
all other i dont care....

CMN is coordinator,moderator,narrator.

inmost of the games (not allways) it is used that he creates the map, moderates the thread and take arbiral desitions if needed.
i might be able to find one if you want.
also i think it would be better to leabe the vacant places for AI's this time.

binTravkin · January 23, 2004, 06:28

These are my votes:

Preference.BinTravkin.MyNewVotes

Map size ? huge
Ocean 50-70 30-50 (the ocean will rise!)
Erosion Aver weak (more minerals)
Life Aver abundant
Clouds Dense
Difficulty Transc.

Transcend Yes
Conquest Yes
Diplomatic Yes
Economic Yes
Cooperative Yes
Do or Die ? no (more interesting)
Flexible start Yes
Tech stag ? yes (or Zakharov,Morgan&Lal will hit the skies)
Spoils of war No yes
Blind research No no
Intense riv ? no
No survey ? no
No scatter ? no
No rnd events Yes no
Time Warp No no
Iron man ? no
Rand person ? yes (for more fun with AI)
Rand social ? yes (for more fun with AI)

Additional:
Gametype = SMAC

Comments:
I strongly suggest others to think twice before settin OCEAN to more than 30-50,

because,when the sea will start risin,not much of land will stay!!
And terraform will then be wery slow:
Raise land: 12 turns
Thermal Borehole: 24 turns
Road: 1 turn
Magtube (optional):3 turns
----
40 turns for 1 former

I expect to have not more than 4 formers for base
It will take them 10(5 with superformer) turns to work on 1 square!
What about 20 squares?

Also EROSION should be WEAK to have more minerals & CLOUDS - DENSE to have more nutrients!
It will fasten the buildup & more time will be left for war!

NATIVE LIFE is essential for Gaians so I wote highest

DO OR DIE on NO because I for myself will be very interested in losing and then startin in small island & Im goin to lose,cause you guys seem to be more professional yhan I.
PLEASE SET IT FOR ME, I promise it will be very fun seein binTravkin crossing the skies with escape pod like binLadens boys in their plane headin for 2 towers (not the ones from Lord of The Rings)!

TECH STAGNATION is very important,because Zakharov will have to build only prototypes (so fast his tech will be advancing) while the others will be sittin on Impact weapons!
There is always chance for Facs like SPARTANS,BELIEVERS,HIVE,GAIANS to produce more explore units (SPARTANS: tech:Mobile, BELIEVERS: ++SUPPORT, HIVE: +INDUSTRY, GAIANS:

+PLANET-->mindworm capture) and collect artifacts for later use on NetNodes!!
Also probe teams will prove more useful on slower research - if research speed of univ is
<10 turns/tech + NetNode/Artifact U cant get from your base to their frequently enough to
steal at least much needed techs & if you try to direct your stealin the result may be lost
probe

SPOILS OF WAR -> For low tech factions (especially BELIEVERS & HIVE) its the best chance to
win a war!
I suggest that TECH STAGNATION go along with SPOILS OF WAR, because it will balance the
advance of science between economic/research facs and warriors (also for builders &
warmongers from human players)

RANDOM EVENTS render game more realistic & interestin, but its fine also without them

RANDOM PERSONALITY/SOCIAL AGENDA -> These randomisations often generates versatile AIs for
example: Exploring Yang, Economical Miriam(makes up for --RESEARCH)& so on..
Anyway, our free slots are SPARTANS & BELIEVERS:
every1 knows their agendas, agresiveness & so they become very predictable!
It does no good for interesting game..

Take in your consideration

binTravkin

binTravkin · January 23, 2004, 06:32

Explanation:

Map size ? huge

means:
was "?"
i vote for "huge"

bin

Mart · January 23, 2004, 06:46

T_ras, as you propose we can start the game with two AI's. Moderator would be good, he/she might fix the map and setup paswords. And most of us agree to it. Present settings (still in decision making, and waiting aproval):

Code:

SMAC game, version release 4.0

Factions:

Gaia's Stepdaughters	BinTravkin
Human Hive		T_ras
University of Planet	Themonger
Morgan Industries	Shawnmmcc
Spartan Federation	AI
The Lord's Believers	AI
Peacekeeping Forces	Mart7x5
______________________________________
Preference.BinTravkin.T_ras..Themonger.Shawnmmcc.Mart	|	Settings

Map size	H	H	?	L-H	L-H	|	Huge
Ocean		30--70	?	50-70	50-70	50-70	|	50-70
Erosion		Weak	?	Aver	Aver	Weak	|	Aver-Weak(2:2)
Life		Abund.	?	Aver	Aver	Aver	|	Average
Clouds		Dense	?	Aver	Aver	Dense	|	Aver-Dense(2:2)
Difficulty	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	|	Transcend

Transcend	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Conquest	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Diplomatic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Economic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Cooperative	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Do or Die	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
Flexible start	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Tech stag	Yes	?	?	?	No	|	?(1:1)
Spoils of war	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	|	No
Blind research	No	?	No	No	No	|	No
Intense riv	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No survey	No	?	?	?	Yes	|	?(1:1)
No scatter	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No rnd events	No	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Time Warp	No	No	No	No	No	|	No
Iron man	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
Rand person	Yes	?	?	?	No	|	?(1:1)
Rand social	Yes	?	?	?	No	|	?(1:1)

CMN		Yes	Mightbe	Yes	Yes	Mightbe	|	Yes

Mart · January 23, 2004, 07:22

BinTravkin, very good points on settings. I think i may change my votes for Life and Spoils of war, as it effects Gaians and Hive factions.
Good point on randomize personality and social agendas, i'll chenge that.
As for the map - what do you think about playing on the Huge map of the planet - as it is in the released game? It is of course well known, but i think it is good map. All starting locations are fair. Maybe only Isle of Deianira is a bit chalanging, but last single game i play is started intentionally there on transced difficulty and i'm winning

, though i think AI is always easier to defeat, so when playing multiplayer that would give someone hard time.

Mr. Harley · January 23, 2004, 08:30

Mark me down to Huge, I love really big maps. mart7x5, I tried emailing one of the veterans I know, I suspect he'll make an interesting map. I have two backups if he doesn't get back to me tonight. Large standard map is good, the only problem is that we all know where the really hot spots are, though the CMN can offset that by giving the AI the Jungle - Jungle Spartans can be really rough. I would enjoy a CMN custom Huge map with more land mass, the reason being that there's a bug generating Huge maps and you typically get extra water anyway.

I vote for enhanced AI, with some independent formers andtechs, some extra units and base facilities. That way the AI as a chance to keep up. Maybe even the AI factions allied or pacted, it makes them tougher nuts. Let the CMN tweak them, including agneda, a good one will make them more fun. Tech stagnation will make the game take WAY too long, a huge map slows research anyway.

It looks like Spoils of War will be on, tjpigj most PBEM keep it turned off, the same for restart though I could go with Travkin's eloquent request.

t_ras · January 23, 2004, 09:12

i think tech stagnation is not so good. from my expirince this games are too long any way.
i also dont think random agendas are so good. it is better when we all know what every one gets and it is esier to personalize your faction leader.
huge map of planet is fine if needed.
you allso need to think twice about ocean coverage, but ill take any think. i work for the long run so for me is better to be far from the rest....

Mr. Harley · January 23, 2004, 10:18

You are talking to the masochist choosing Morgan - he loves to turtle.

Themonger · January 23, 2004, 12:40

Quote:

Originally posted by binTravkin
These are my votes:

SPOILS OF WAR -> For low tech factions (especially BELIEVERS & HIVE) its the best chance to
win a war!

are you kiding? What do you think probe teams are for?? Why give some one like the Believers such a huge advantage, being able to have +2 probe from the start (which means there probes hardly ever loose), and stealing techs on conquering bases?!?!?!

I want to switch my faction to believers if spoils of war and tech stagnation is on. (seriously)

Mart · January 23, 2004, 18:58

Do or Die - I think it is good to have it on "No". Once eliminated and restarted, it is very difficult for the faction to regain strength, but it is still in the game, and that makes the game, at least for me, more interesting.

Tech Stagnation - I think that for any pbem, and especially on huge map here having it on "No" is good, and will speed up the game. It seems like we are scattered on various parts of the globe, so fast turns rotation might be more difficult, so let's make gameplay faster if we can.

Spoils of War - I decided to stay with my original vote.

How about "No Survey", we have still (1:1). T_ras you might help to solve some issues where we have 2:2 result.

Current settings(i put also Themonger Tech stag on No, this is what i understand is your vote here...)

Code:

SMAC game, version release 4.0

Factions:

Gaia's Stepdaughters	BinTravkin
Human Hive		T_ras
University of Planet	Themonger
Morgan Industries	Shawnmmcc
Spartan Federation	AI
The Lord's Believers	AI
Peacekeeping Forces	Mart7x5
______________________________________
Preference.BinTravkin.T_ras..Themonger.Shawnmmcc.Mart	|	Settings

Map size	H	H	?	H	H	|	Huge
Ocean		30--70	?	50-70	50-70	50-70	|	50-70
Erosion		Weak	?	Aver	Aver	Weak	|	Aver-Weak(2:2)
Life		Abund.	?	Aver	Aver	Abund.	|	Aver-Abund(2:2)
Clouds		Dense	?	Aver	Aver	Dense	|	Aver-Dense(2:2)
Difficulty	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	|	Transcend

Transcend	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Conquest	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Diplomatic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Economic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Cooperative	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Do or Die	No	?	?	(Yes?)	No	|	No
Flexible start	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Tech stag	Yes	No	No	No	No	|	No
Spoils of war	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	|	No
Blind research	No	?	No	No	No	|	No
Intense riv	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No survey	No	?	?	?	Yes	|	?(1:1)
No scatter	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No rnd events	No	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Time Warp	No	No	No	No	No	|	No
Iron man	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
Rand person	Yes	No	?	?	Yes	|	Yes
Rand social	Yes	No	?	?	Yes	|	Yes

CMN		Yes	Mightbe	Yes	Yes	Mightbe	|	Yes

t_ras · January 23, 2004, 21:08

no survey - NO, i think seeing the map would be more realistic.
al the map seetings- average

Mart · January 24, 2004, 02:06

Thank you for your opinion! Last chance to cast missing votes to possibly change the settings in their current form. We have some "hot" preferences

and it is good there is odd number of us, five.

As for me we are good to go

Code:

SMAC game, version release 4.0

Factions:

Gaia's Stepdaughters	BinTravkin
Human Hive		T_ras
University of Planet	Themonger
Morgan Industries	Shawnmmcc
Spartan Federation	AI
The Lord's Believers	AI
Peacekeeping Forces	Mart7x5
______________________________________
Preference.BinTravkin.T_ras..Themonger.Shawnmmcc.Mart	|	Settings

Map size	H	H	?	H	H	|	Huge
Ocean		30--70	50-70	50-70	50-70	50-70	|	50-70
Erosion		Weak	Aver	Aver	Aver	Weak	|	Aver
Life		Abund.	Aver	Aver	Aver	Abund.	|	Aver
Clouds		Dense	Aver	Aver	Aver	Dense	|	Aver
Difficulty	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	Transc.	|	Transcend

Transcend	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Conquest	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Diplomatic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Economic	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Cooperative	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Do or Die	No	?	?	(Yes?)	No	|	No
Flexible start	Yes	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Tech stag	Yes	No	No	No	No	|	No
Spoils of war	Yes	Yes	No	No	No	|	No
Blind research	No	?	No	No	No	|	No
Intense riv	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No survey	No	No	?	?	Yes	|	No
No scatter	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
No rnd events	No	?	Yes	Yes	Yes	|	Yes
Time Warp	No	No	No	No	No	|	No
Iron man	No	?	?	?	No	|	No
Rand person	Yes	No	?	?	Yes	|	Yes
Rand social	Yes	No	?	?	Yes	|	Yes

CMN		Yes	Mightbe	Yes	Yes	Mightbe	|	Yes

Mart · January 24, 2004, 02:20

What is SMAC version 5.0? is it the SMAC from planetary pack?

Maybe some additional data, some background story? Will we play just regular storyline, nothing more than what intro movie in SMAC offered or we will add something to it? That might enhance roleplaying, and fun from the game, though i'm ok with standard Peacekeepers mission.

Some name for our game? that might come out with the story if we add some.

Some general rules, in the thread "turns of 5-alive" i have seen some extensive general rules of game by Googlie. Do you think we also could use some rules like that?

binTravkin · January 24, 2004, 05:59

There is small problem with me if game is goin to start sooner than 26.01.04 - I wont be able to do my turn until monday evening.

Hope it doesnt hurt you all!

If does,switch myfac to Believers

so Im not playin the 1st turn,but the 5th..

I dont want any1 to wait 4 me!

If sometimes you realise Im sayin stupid things -> Ive never played SMAC PBEM, but a lots of IPX & TCP/IP, so there might be some things different from my expierence

As for probes & BELIEVERS (as themonger wrote) I believe it is easier to sneak a probe past border patrols, sensors&scouts in PBEM game, cause U can try diferent paths,but it is NOT so easy to steal when playin in huge map - ur borders rarely are close to enemies & if does there is much sensors and at least some fast units in border cities to quickly show up & rain some bullets on ur probes & they dont need much to die..

Heard something about planet map - at 1 point it would be interestin to play original scenario,but maybe there is some1 who have played very much on Chiron,so better take some unknown map

Wont have iNet access till monday afternoon so dont wonder havin no reply from me

Mart · January 24, 2004, 09:16

If we are to find moderator for the game, it would be excellent to start as soon as on monday. Anyway it is already like two days from now.

About trying various paths in order to achieve Probe Team success - i thought about some rules prohibiting us from multiple turn loading. when trying numerous times enough you could probably win a battle with unit with strength 1 against unit with strength 10, but after doing reloads for 6 hours i would probably gone mad. And also i do not think this kind of play was intended by game designers. That is why i like games where you actually do in your turn only orders issuing - no movements, no actual action and chance rolls, like Star Trek: Birth of the Federation. If someone played that game or know it, will understand my point.

---------------------

Checking "Do or Die" as "No" will allow us to have more fun from play and less to be concerned about being eliminated. I wouldn't be afraid of other players on Planet's map because they might know the map better. I would go for quality game rather than crude will to win, but of course i'm peacekeeping.........

For winning i play some of my single player games, but in multiplayer roleplaying is much more important for me

t_ras · January 24, 2004, 11:26

INPORTANT! - there are rules for PBEM in top of forum - READ THEM!! no multiple loading, n probing factions that you dont have vendeta with adn many more. again- READ THEM.

OK- LETS BEGIN PLAYING!!

if you dont post till tumorrow that you have CMN, ill find one.

Mart · January 24, 2004, 11:53

Maybe a note to the future CMN, if you could fix "Freshwater Sea" on the map, i would be greatful. I like this landmark, and random generator rarely places it in proper way, often there is no "Fresh... sea"
---------------------
T_ras, I do not know on this forum anyone whom I could ask for being CMN, so you please go forward with finding one, and also Shawnmmcc wrote some time ago that was already looking for someone to moderate.

Mr. Harley · January 24, 2004, 12:20

Been off again a couple of days, I'll try my backup moderator.