AU501 - DAR3: Contact with all other civs

[Dominae]

This is the third DAR thread for AU501 - The Power of Seafaring. Post here once you've contacted all the other civs in the game (there's nine of them total).

What have you noticed about this scenario that's different from your typical epic game?

[nbarclay]

Thanks to the Great Lighthouse, it didn't take me all that long to discover all the other civs. Figuring out that I had done so took a lot longer because I forgot that the my defeat of Japan meant there were only supposed to be eight AIs left, not nine.

When last we left off our tale, the Byzantine Empire had decided to research Republic at a 50-turn pace and build and upgrade warriors for the invasion of Japan. In 670 BC, the Byzantines hooked up iron, started upgrading troops, and issued a recall order for the three dromons then comprising the Byzantine fleet. Eighty years later, fourswordsmen and two spearmen landed as the vanguard of the force invading Japan. Kyoto fell in 430 BC, and the conquest of Japan was completed in 330 BC.

In the meantime, dromon construction continued alongside production of swordsmen and spearmen. The Imperial Byzantine Navy got an enormous boost in 510 BC with the completion of the Great Lighthouse in Nicaea. Contacts soon followed: the Russians in 430 BC (and Egypt probably a little before that); Mayas in 390 and the English shortly after; the French in 170; and the Dutch in 10 BC.

On the scientific front, in 230 BC, the Byzantines traded Philosophy, Code of Laws, and Map Making to theMayas for Currency and Construction, entering the medieval era and getting Engineering as a free tech. Republic was discovered in 90 BC, and research started on Feudalism. I'd been planning to invade Sumeria shortly after the conquest of Japan, but with Feudalism so close (nine turns at the time Republic was discovered, but probably actually eight), I decided to wait until I could invade with MedInfs defended by pikes instead of swordsmen defended by spears. The new plan was to switch to Republic as soon as Feudalism was discovered, start the war during the transition of governments, and try not to have any victories by Dromons until after the transition was complete. (The actual invasion started in the period covered by the next DAR.)

One other noteworthy event occurred during this period: the completion of the Statue of Zeus in 190 BC. (A prebuild was underway even before the invasion of Japan began.) Thus, Ancient Cavalry were destined to join the MedInfs and pikemen in the Sumerian invasion.

I'm sorry about the lack of screenshots, but the Japanese war was so lopsided that it wasn't interesting enough for me to take screenshots and I was far past the point where this DAR is supposed to end by the time I realized I'd met everyone. My next save isn't until more than three centuries later.

[nbarclay]

Regarding what I found interesting or unusual about this game, perhaps the most interesting is that there are sea trading connections among all ten civs. That has three very interesting implications. First with the AU Mod, the potential payoff of suicide curraughs is relatively high for players willing to gamble that they wont' encounter ocean dead ends venturing into sea tiles. (For better or for worse, I wasn't one of them; I felt like my odds of getting the Great Lighthouse were pretty good, and anywhere curraughs can go at all under the AU Mod, galleys can go safely and easily with the Lighthouse.) Second, the Great Lighthouse is significantly more useful than it would be under other circumstances. Not only does the Lighthouse provide relatively easy contact with everyone, but it also provides the ability to trade for all seven non-native luxuries long before Astronomy (since it allows trade over sea tiles). And third, with the Lighthouse sufficient to enable trading for all luxuries, Navigation is far less important than it would be under other circumstances. Usually, since there aren't enough luxuries to go around in C3C, I make Navigation a high priority because I want to be the first one on my land mass (or cluster of nearby land masses in the case of an archipelago map) to have the ability to trade across ocean tiles. But unless war cuts a trade route, all that is needed on this map is the Great Lighthouse or Astronomy.

The AU Mod has definitely given the tech race a different feel. Something we didn't think about, but likely should have, was how giving different AIs different research paths can be taken advantage of by a human player on an archipelago map. In the last DAR, I pointed out how I traded to Japan and the Sumerian/Hittite block to obtain techs that each had but the other didn't. During the period covered by this DAR, I added Currency and Construction to the list of techs I was able to trade for. Under the standard rules, with AIs not following such different research paths, I don't think it's generally possible to trade a couple techs for nerly as many others. (And Philosophy's high cost in the AU Mod, while inconvenient in regard to researching the tech, comes in really handy in terms of trading value.)

Of course if an AI had gotten the Great Lighthouse, my tech brokering opportunities would likely have been cut a lot shorter (and it would have been a lot riskier for me to obtain the necessary contacts). And on a Continents or Pangea map, the different research paths for the different AIs would work a lot better for them because they could trade with each other. But the AU Mod can make archipelago maps tech trading heaven for a human player who gets the Great Lighthouse.

(By the way, my researching Republic at a 50-turn pace left Russia with rough tech parity but me in excellent shape otherwise. I did without Monarchy for a long time since I didn't want two government switches in the medieval era, but no one beat me to the medieval era.)

Having a weak neighbor with ivory on an archipelago map can be the next best thing to having it yourself, especially if the neighbor happens to be a civ that views Masonry and Mathematics as low priorities. I don't think Japan even had Mathematics when I invaded! Nor did Japan have horses or iron when I invaded (or, for that matter, Map Making to let them go out and try to acquire some offshore). The overall effect was that Dominae practically handed the Statue of Zeus to us as a gift. (Which, I suppose, is good for testing the impact of our changes in Ancient Cavalry.)

By the way, thanks for setting this up, Dominae.

Nathan

[ZargonX]

More quick notes on my game for this section:

950 - Math Writing HBR to Egypt for Poly
950 - Poly HBR 100g to Sumer for Constr.
730 - French build Oracle
690 - Sumeriams build Great Wall
630 - Philo to Sumer for CoL and 90g
630 - Poly to Russia for 40g
630 - Myst to Hitt for 30g
630 - MM to Egypt for 80g
610 - Built Great Lit
470 - Russians declare war
470 - Mayans build ToA
410 - Worker lost to volcano
410 - Operation Sashimi launches: 3 Dromon, 1 Horse, 4 Arch, 1 Spear.
370 - Osaka Captured. Next wave of swords for Op Sashimi arrive next turn.
350 - Egypt builds Great Lib. Massive barbs
330 - Dutch build MoM
330 - We enter Med Age
310 - Mono for Engineering with Sumer
270 - Satsuma captured
210 - Japan gives us Edo and Tokyo for peace, Osaka gets deposed War redeclared next turn.
70 BC - Enter GA from Japanese ship attack
90 AD - Lose first Dromon to that same stack of 5 barb galleys...
90 - Kyoto taken
190 - Japanese eliminated
300 - GA ends
300 - Eng to Egypt for Mono and 80g
300 - Feud and 200g to Sumer for Theo
300 - Contact with Maya
310 - Contact with England
310 - Engineering to Eng for Rep. and 1g
330 - Found the mighty whale breeding grounds
350 - Contact with Dutch
380 - Anarchy!
450 - Republic
560 - PP to Sumer for Inv. and 6g
560 - Theo to Maya for contact with French, 180g, and 60gpt

[notyoueither]

I took a wrong turn at Canterbury and did not find the French (10th Civ) until 500 AD.

Not much exciting happened since my last update, except the bozo Hittites kept on attacking me. So eventually I left them to be forever at war with me (or a very looong time) as the happy bonus comes in handy as a Republic planning on attacking, and my misfortune with the RNG seemed to go away with some positive results.

Falling behind in tech to the Dutch-Maya-Sumerian combine put me into quite a hole. At 500AD I am just about to discover Chivalry and go back to Japan to stay.

[Fosse]

Emperor, AU mod.

I've been playing for a while after discovering the last Civ, because I was thinking that there were 12. Silly me.

When I last posted the Dutch had recently been discovered, and it was seen that they had beaten me to Philosophy. I traded and am currently researching Republic.

I continue my expansion, with cities 2-4 spaces apart, mostly at 3. I have decided not to trade for Republic, which the Dutch have, since I am 7 turns away from the Great Lighthouse.


825 Sumeria discovers Construction. I buy it off of them for COL and Currency. This throws me into the Middle Ages (first Civ there!) and I get Feudalism as my freebie.

730 Mayans start Hanging Gardens, which means they are the first with Monarchy. I'm not too worried, as HG aren't on my list.

710 Huge year for me. I finish the Great Library and Discover Republic. The Wonder gives me sea lane access to the Dutch and the French (nobody else has harbors). Netherlands give me 1 gpt and spices for Horsebackriding.

With that, I call for a revolution... Anarchy will be six turns.

670 BC Russia nabs the Great Library. They have been very backwards, so this might be interesting.

650 Nicea gets Black Death! I actually didn't know that the AU mod activated it! to the mod.

590 I emerge from anarchy, establishing the Byzantine Republic. I'm continuing to build cities on my landmass, have 18 turns to Monotheism, and am the clear tech leader with 2-3 above everybody else (but a different 2-3 depending on who we're talking about!)

530 Constantinople starts on Sun Tzu. Artemis, Hanging Gardens, Zes and the Great wall were built in the last two or three turns, breaking the cascade.

470 Russia gets a granary, and I import some Dyes. I start planning an invasion of the Hittites. They have a big enough landmass for a Forbidden Palace, and are near enough that I should be able to build it myself if the war doesn't generate a leader (or I don't get an SGL). I start upgrading the 10 or so vet warriors I have (one barracks city has been building them and nothing else for centuries now) to Med. Inf.

I sell some tech to the Dutch for 11 gpt.

Between turns Egypt demands COL. I give in, becaue I don't want my new trade with Russia disrupted, and I think Egypt controls the sealand I'm using. When my turn starts I confirm that they would indeed have cut me off if they declared war.

290 BC. My Russian dyes are cut off! Turns out that Egypt is taking over much of Russia. The coasts show a few ruins, and Egypt now has an extra dye. I buy it off of them and hope that my reputation isn't hurt.

This is the year I meet England (thus, all Civs met). They are in the early ancient ages.

210 Discover Monotheism, Theology in 12.

10 AD Dutch got Engineering a few turns ago. My military buildup is going well, I plan on dropping about 8 Med Inf and a few pikes and trebuchets off near Ugarit, using the island below them as a drop off ponit for the Dromon ferries. I strike a ROP with Sumeria, and station a signifigant invasion force on the Hittite border. I plan to attack with them a few turns before landing the forces in Ugarit, thus drawing their military into the north.

Some Year I didn't write down... Theology discovered, SGL generated! He will rush Sistine Chapel, and Education will be had in 8 turns!

Mayans now have a harbor, and I sell them Theology for Silk, wines, and Engineering.

170 AD Education, Astronomy in 9. I trade tech to Dutch for Invention, Spice, and 12 gpt.

230 AD The Hittites declare war! They attack my units (on Sumerian land) on the choke point! I'm pretending they saw my buildup and didn't like it. Don't burst my bubble!

This is the turn I watch Sumeria disband a worker outside of a city. Sigh.

The first few turns of the war go poorly. I didn't have all the troops in Sumeria I wanted, and even though I have pikes and Med Inf and the have spears and archers, their very superior numbers and some poor RNG roles kill most of my five Med Inf. The rest of the Med Inf. are en route.

To relive pressure on my northern front I unload a force of pikes and Med Inf (4 pikes and around 10 Med Inf) next to Ugarit, Hittites southernmost city. That turn EVERY SINGLE unit in the north starts heading south.

280 I build Sun Tzu in Constantinople and start building units in my high production cities. I take Ugarit and Hittites come calling for peace. I say no, because I am planning to wipe them out over a longish war.

I take Aleppo in 310, while the defense holds in Ugarit. Their 3 man Chariots keep retreating though, so I'm not gaining ground.

320 AD I import some new luxuries and am able to trade a tech for Chivalry, all units being built get switched to Knights.


It is now 340 AD. The Hittite army is primitive but huge. I am probably going to settle for taking my two cities for now, but am going to see how the next 2-3 turns play out. If I can get their incense to bolster my trade.... hmmmm. I am losing very few units, and kill some of their spears each turn.

I am selling techs to the Mayans and Netherlands for about 100 gpt (combined) as they come up, and to anyone else who musters some cash. Japan is still in the ancient age, and haven't built a harbor for their ivory yet..... I might think about taking them out when I get peace in my current war, to keep my military busy while I wait out the 20 turns.


I'm really enjoying the game so far. I like the map Dom, can you tell us how much of it is generator and how much of it is your magic touch?

[Fosse]

The obligatory screenie!

[cracky]

AU 501 DAR 3: First Dromon to contact with all civs. This one was really short.

975: decided to be fruitful and multiply across those two western islands rather than attack Japan right off. 14 turns to monarchy.

950: Got Code of Laws from the Dutch for Mysticism and HR, plus 22 gold. Nobody else has anything interesting.

850: took 238 gold from the English for HR

825: Contacted the Hittites… they were right next to me this whole time

690BC Monarchy finished. Revolt will begin in 2 turns (waiting on 3 settlers.)

650BC: revolt begun, Constantinople started on Hanging Gardens.

610: After plying the sea lanes for near unto 2500 years, our first Curragh finally succumbed to a barbarian attack near England…

590 BC: CRAP! The black death strikes Caesarea! Cracky shakes his fist at Dominae! Is this what you meant by different from stock rules?

570BC: Egypt contacted. Caesarea’s roads are cut.

550 BC: Russia contacted. That’s everyone (should be 10 including me, right?)! Black Death ended in Caesarea, but we’re still in anarchy. At least no other cities were hit by the Black Death.


Overview: Everyone in range (Japan, Hittites, and Sumerians ) seem to be heading for the western most isle discovered. If my anarchy ever ends I should be able to get the lion’s share of that island. After that I'll be waiting until knights to wipe out Japan, or maybe swords, depending on if they trade anyone for iron. I've maintained a tech lead, but am 6th on the world rankings in power. Almost all of my workers are on Automate - no changes. I know this isn't the way to go, but can't bring myself to shepard even 11-12 workers along every turn.


Anyone else get hit by the plague?

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by cracky
AU 501 DAR 3: First Dromon to contact with all civs. Overview: Everyone in range (Japan, Hittites, and Sumerians ) seem to be heading for the western most isle discovered. If my anarchy ever ends I should be able to get the lion’s share of that island. After that I'll be waiting until knights to wipe out Japan, or maybe swords, depending on if they trade anyone for iron. I've maintained a tech lead, but am 6th on the world rankings in power. Almost all of my workers are on Automate - no changes. I know this isn't the way to go, but can't bring myself to shepard even 11-12 workers along every turn.


Anyone else get hit by the plague?

I haven't posted yet, but I have finished up to this DAR (finally contacted England in 50bc...I took the other fork at the Mayans that NYE didn't and contacted France but explored several islands before finding the English).

Anyway back to my reason for quoting the post...I know a lot of people don't like managing workers themselves, but trust me, that is one of the best ways to move up levels. If you understand the power of the worker and how to use them effectively, then your empire will grow faster. If you let the AI run your workers for you then you will often see them roading that mountain when you have an unimproved tile your city is working.

Oh, and I haven't been hit by black death yet. I haven't even had a volcano eruption :crosses fingers: I'll try and post my DAR tonight, but I might not have a chance to write it so it may be tomorrow.

[cracky]

Originally posted by Rhothaerill
Oh, and I haven't been hit by black death yet. I haven't even had a volcano eruption :crosses fingers: I'll try and post my DAR tonight, but I might not have a chance to write it so it may be tomorrow.

But the Plague isn't normally in the epic game, neh? At least it was only one city for only 2-3 turns. The animation was almost worth the effects for those few turns The volcano eruptions aren't that bad. Though the second time it erupted the lava covered the two tiles nearest Constantinople

...Time to go teach the Sumerians some manners...

[donZappo]

AU Mod, Emperor Difficulty

It took me longer to meet everybody than most of you in this thread, but I think it appears that I sacrificed some of my exploration for war-mongering. That, and I'm not that used to playing on Large maps so I didn't realize how much more expansive it was than what I'm used to!

Alright... like most of you, I was in the midst of gearing up for an invasion of Japan right after my first Dromon was created. I saw a Japanese galley in 750BC and really didn't want them to get contacts with other civs. I demanded they leave, and after saying they would stubbornly refused to leave. So I had no choice but to sink them with my Dromons and trigger my golden age!

During the next two turns I took Osaka, the city right next to the ivory, and noticed that they had been kind enough to build me a harbor! Also, my first Great Leader was produced from this battle on only my second elite victory! It seems that the Civ Gods really didn't care much for Japan in this game and gave me their blessings to rid the globe of their filth! Needless to say the Japanese quickly disappeared to my swordmen army. No need to elaborate, really.

I used my golden age to work on the Statue of Zeus and Heroic epic while focusing on libraries in most of my other cities.

In 470BC I finally popped the goody hut that was seen from the initial start. Heh. It gave me Code of Laws much to my surprise. I guess they aren't always barbs on Emperor. On a side note, this was the year that Kyoto fell. I was upset that I had left a spearmen with only one hit point the turn before and couldn't take it then. But, to my eternal surprise, after that turn they built the Hanging Gardens! So I walked in next turn to claim my new wonder. I've never seen the AI give me a present like that before and found it quite funny.

After Japan was destroyed in 250BC I was left with a decision who to hit next. My GA had ended so I switched to Monarchy and traded to bring me into the Middle Ages skipping the Optional Philosophy/Republic. It's interesting how making Philosophy optional actually speeds up the warmongering path... Also, I noticed that England had set up a city on my islands so I resumed my exploration once again while there was a lull in the wars.

The very next turn the Hittites dropped of an archer and warrior on my main island. I guess the decision on who goes next isn't so hard after all!

I continued attacking the Hittites with Medieval Infantry and Pikemen while meeting the other civs. I eventually met them all in 460AD when the Dutch traded somebody for my contact and I met the French through them. I see that France is going for a OCC in this game. Heh.

Now for some notes on what I've learned so far throughout this phase:

Trading Map Making to everybody when I got it was a bad idea, actually. They were able to colonize the western islands with me instead of them being left to my sole possession. I kicked myself for that but will remember it in the future.

I'm really missing the extra hit point on my Ancient Cavalry. They're helping with the fighting, but that HP really makes a difference. I'm surprised by how important it really is.

The Dromons are really a great unit, at least on this map. In both of my wars they have completely dominated the Hittites and Japanese and made sure that nobody could attack me on my own land. Also, when not "blockading" they made really great bombard-support for my troops. I'm completely surprised how effective they are! I had very few casualties in the Japanese war and took the Hittite coastal cities without many problems.

I'm wondering if Monarchy was the best government to go with... I've fallen somewhat behind in techs, but assume that I would be completely swamped economically in republic. It seems that most of the players have gone to republic without too much trouble so I wonder if I was wrong in this belief. Have you had any problems economically maintaining a war with the new republic?

Overall the game is going very well. It does seem somewhat easy compared to my other Emperor games, though. I don't know if that's improved skill or something about this map in particular. I'll give it some thought and see if I can put a finger on it...


-donZappo

[Smellincoffee]

I'm not sure where the first half of this report went; maybe it was the latter half of DAR2. Anyhoo, I'm at war with the Hittites courtesty of the "Take your threats somewhere else!" button.

In 610, the Hittites managed to sign the Sumerians to a military alliance. :roll:.
The French completed the Collossus, and the RUssians grabbed the Pyramids.
Meet with Mursilis; he wants Mysticism. Pooh.
Hittite gally approches my island.Drops off AN archer. Attack him with a horseman. Approched Mursilis. Nope, moron wants horsebackriding. I contemplate matters. Peaceful Sumeria won't let me talk to them. I decide it's time to let the Hittes know who's the human and who's the binary-code-driven AI. Set sail!

I continue to build up my forces. At 550, Mursilis STILL wants Mathematics. We come to an agreement. He give Code of Laws, me give Mathematics. More benificial for him, but I want my war with Japan, not 'ol Licebeard..
Approached Gilgamesh. He'll take peace for peace. Hah. I get peace for peace and 167 gold. That'll teach you, farmer Gil.

Declare war on Japan in 490. Adrianople II sets sail for the Passage of Theodora.

470: Lose a Veteran Swordsman in the Battle of Osaka
430: Kyoto falls. Adrianople II arrives at the entrance to the Passage of Theodora.
390: Fifth Year of Rot and Death: The Adrianople II flounders in the Passage.
330: Tokyto falls.
270: Sastuma falls.
210: The Adrianople III commissioned. Sent to Theodora's Passage.
130: Edo's culture finally expands, so I can take the city. I do. Japanese destroyed. Mwah hah hahahah etc.
50 BC: The Adrianople III arrives on the Mayan coast. There is much rejoicing.

In 10 BC the Hitties demand Currency. Smellincoffistin throws the defresenatates the diplomats. The Hittites declare war....again.

Crap. Wonder cascades have been going on for a while, but no one has siezed the great lighthouse, the one wonder I've been trying to get all game. (The size is stuck at size four, but..)

The French take my wonder. THEY TOOK MY WONDER!

*bawl* I switch to the Great Wall. Milistaristic and industrious. Wee-hoo.

30 AD: A HITTITE galley approaches my one curragh. I decide to defend rather than attack; at least I'll get a fortifying bonus.

We meet the French, finally. Now all's left are the Dutch. Maybe once Elizabeth dies, James dies, Charles dies, Cromwell dies, and Charles II is run out of town, maybe I can meet the Duke of Orange when he comess to assume the throne....

I decide to teach Merciliss X a lesson.

Nicaea captured by Hittites, whose one-archer one-warrior show overcome my veteran swordsmen. What the crap? We captured some crappy Hittite town on their isle. We talk to the Hittites who give up two colonies for peace. I forget to set off my golden age with the dromons, though. No biggie; Sumeria could use some "downsizing". Not to mention Gilgamesh is getting a little big for his britches, ordering my innocent lil' curragh out of his scum-covered water.


I guess it's an effect of the AU mod-- but the AI is using navy like mad. I've seen hordes of Hittite galleys and quite a few French curraghs.

The "Passage of Theodora", where two of my ships died...

[Rhothaerill]

Emperor level played with the AU mod

850bc – The invasion begins. I landed on Japanese soil next to Osaka the turn before with 8 swordsmen and a few more on their way. Most of the swords were upgraded warriors that ate up most of my gold. But it was worth it.

I only lost one unit with my swordsmen stack, but it was interesting because the AI had five military units in the city, which usually only happens with their capital. I suppose it was because either a) it had nowhere else to put those units being on an island, b) it was the closest city to my borders, or both of those. On the bright side, the city was also sporting two settlers to give me my first slave workers. After the city capture I immediately started it on a harbor to get those ivory up to my capital.

710bc – Lose my exploratory dromon in the north sea lane. Capture Kyoto after several dromon bombards and the loss of one archer.

After the obligatory attacks at Osaka by the Japanese warriors and archers they didn’t have much left. I bypassed Satsuma to take out the capital. After capture and suppression of the dissidents it was size 5. This is where I made a large mistake. Osaka was still several turns away from building a harbor. I rush-bought a barracks to get rid of the population to avoid culture flip…completely forgetting that what I should have rushed was a harbor. I still wouldn’t have been able to get the ivory up there right away because the Japanese culture border still blocked the coastal lanes, but once Satsuma fell I would have had ivory in my capital several turns sooner than I did. That little mistake really came back to bite me later on.

One interesting thing…the Japanese got two curraghs out. One of those I sank with my last remaining curragh to preserve a golden age until I could get to a better government. The other curragh was in striking distance of one of my dromons…and went the other way to explore.

690bc – Sardica founded in former marshland to finish off settlement of my original island.

Sardica and Chalcedon are already fairly productive cities now that I’ve drained most of the swamp. That fish tile on grassland still cracks me up.

670bc – Dutch complete the Mausoleum of Mausollos.

Woopty doo. I didn’t want it anyway. I still haven’t made any major push toward a wonder.

650bc – Capture Satsuma and a worker. I also lost 3 swordsmen to a spear and a warrior while attacking Edo

It wasn’t until after I took the city that I checked it. Not only was it on a hill, but that was indeed a river I was attacking across. Yeesh! The very next turn I lost two more swords to a 1hp spearman before finally taking it the turn after.

610bc – Sumerians complete the Great Library. Finally capture Edo and give peace to the Japanese for polytheism and 15 gold.

It would have been nice to keep the GL out of their hands as they were already the tech leader, but it ended up not being a big deal. The main thing was that it caused a wonder cascade with the Mayans completing the Hanging Gardens, the French completing the Temple of Artemis, and me left with no wonders to switch my pre-build to in Constantinople because I still did not have ivory in my capitol for another few turns. I had to settle for a temple since that was the highest shield count building I could build. Sigh, one little mistake.

I gave peace to Japan, but I had no intention of keeping it. I knew they didn’t have contact with anyone because their one curragh went west where no other AI ships had been yet, so I could pull an Arrian Deception, not that it mattered since at that point the two other civs I knew were angry with me anyway.

570bc – Contact with the Mayans. Finally.

I traded code of laws, literature, map making and 45 gold to them for monarchy and mathematics. I then trade monarchy to the Hittites for 70 gold and the ability to deficit research (the Sumerians already had it so it was almost worthless to them by then).

550bc – Mayans complete the Great Wall.

I wasn’t going to be attacking them anytime soon anyway.

490bc – Destroy the Japanese and capture 4 slave workers.

And the island is mine. Hopefully it will have more on it than ivory in the future. The Japanese were kind of a pushover with no iron or horses. If I had noticed the river and hill site in Edo, they might have been even more of a pushover as I wouldn’t have lost a bunch of swordsmen taking the city. Really, once I landed on the island it was a foregone conclusion that I’d win. I had not only strength in numbers of swordsmen, but also strength in quality of units, as well as a few dromons running around bombarding cities. I’m really liking dromons and their unit animation. This is the first time I’ve played with them, but I’ve always liked bombarding cities from sea. Now I can do that in the bc’s.

To be continued…

[Rhothaerill]

Emperor level played with the AU mod

450bc – Contact with France and Egypt on the same turn with different exploratory dromons.

I trade map making and code of laws to the French for currency and 1 gold. The Egyptians are a ways behind in tech and don’t have any gold to trade. I also notice that the French have been in a war with the Mayans and lost as the city of Tours is a Mayan city.

430bc – Finish research on philosophy. The Hittites complete the Great Lighthouse. I start my revolution.

One of the three civs I haven’t met must have beat me to it as I don’t receive a free tech. I had waited to begin my revolution hoping to receive republic as a free tech, but I don’t want to wait any longer and I already have monarchy so my revolution is begun. 7 turns, ugh! The very next turn the Hittites discover philosophy as well so I quickly trade it to Sumeria for 3gpt and 100 gold. I then traded it to the Mayans for 18gpt and 105 gold.

390bc – Contact with Russia.

They are as backwards as their continent-mates, the Egyptians. Considering how the Sumerians and Hittites traded back and forth before I got involved and upset their schedule, it’s almost a joke that Russia and Egypt are so backwards. Despite having wildly different traits and with Russia having both the expansionist and scientific traits, they must have either researched the same techs or got involved in an early war.

370bc – The Hittites land two warriors in my land. I ask them to remove and they refuse and start a war (which I knew would happen). Contact with the Dutch.

I was still not out of anarchy so I had no desire to start my golden age until I was in a new government. I hid my dromons in towns until then to avoid any possibility of starting it early. Unfortunately the two regular warriors they dropped on grassland proved to be too much for a swordsman and a chariot to deal with and I had to bring in another sword and chariot to finish them off.

When I contacted the Dutch they still did not have mysticism (which I traded to them for 2 gpt and 70 gold), but they did have the Republic which I greatly desired and which they refused to trade. Now there was only one contact left to make. As I stated in a post above I could have had contact finished by now if I hadn’t taken that right turn at the Mayans.

290bc – Anarchy ends and I enter the Republic…yep that’s correct, the Republic.

The turn before I was about to come out of anarchy I decided to gamble a bit and gifted polytheism to the Dutch. This made them polite. They were more than happy to give me the Republic, 7gpt and 40 gold for monarchy. And I of course was jazzed as I wanted to be in a Republic before triggering my golden age. Also this turn I traded currency to the Sumerians for construction, 20 gold and gems. I was expecting to enter the next age, but didn’t. NO ONE had researched horseback riding yet.

210bc – Finish research of horseback riding and enter the next age. I receive feudalism as my free tech. Begin my golden age and then request peace from the Hittites and gain the city of Kadesh.

After landing six swordsmen on Hittite land (a token force) a turn before and surviving a vicious counterattack that left half my force dead and the rest with half hp or less, I bombarded a Hittite galley with one of my dromons to begin my golden age. Then I call up the Hittites and offer peace. Not only do they want peace they also give me a minor city on their southern island even though I had not even attacked their cities yet. I quickly moved my surviving swords back to my island to heal. I had already decided to have a peaceful golden age that I could use to build up my infrastructure and then go back to building war units.

Also this turn the Sumerians entered the next age just ahead of me and received engineering. They were polite with me by now and traded engineering 4gpt and 140 gold for feudalism. I began research on invention and changed Constantinople’s build to Sun Tzu in preparation to build Leonardo’s Workshop. My plan is to quickly research invention and monotheism and then do a slow research of chivalry to build up gold. By then I could have several more dromons and 20-30 horsemen built and ready to upgrade (with the cheaper upgrades from Leo’s) to knights for a very fine strike force.

Over the next several turns I finally started settling the western island, though I have to share it with the Sumerians…for a while.

[b]50bc – Finish research on invention. Contact the English.[/i]

Finally. I had no idea where they were. I had actually thought they were in the large black area to the southwest and I was slowly making my way there. My dromon in the north had made his way all around the French nation as well as the island to their east (being settled by the Dutch) before making its way back through Mayan territory and happening on the English by pure chance.

To be continued…

[Cort Haus]

The quick story

Using 3 barracks, a military was built to hit Japan : ~ 10 Swords, 5 Dromons, 4 horses, 2 cats The war was going well until Edo flipped with 300 shields worth of units inside. I was devastated, but made peace, getting all Japanese cities, including 2 on the western island. I then used the remained of the GA to research Republic and build libraries and other infrastructure in the core, pop-rushing libraries in Japan and the island cities. The GA also got Statue of Zeus, and a start on another wonder.

The Dromons were a superb asset. My exploration was restricted with them, though, as I wanted to exploit their fire-power, and I got the feeling that the other civs were not going to be running away in tech.

The Japanese declared war on the Hittites, but my peace with Japan expired before they could get to Kyoto, which I took. Japan escaped to an island.
My decision at this point is whether to go after the remaining Japanese city, eliminate them and get a foothold on that island, or let their new freebie military maybe mess up the Hittites a bit - who have three lightly-defended cities on that island. Trouble is I can't tell the Hittites from the Sumerians, both of whom are wearing light blue.




The DAR


Decide to build on forest at edge of swamp for the military support.
Literature in 1225BC - two turns on max gold to raise cash for another Dromon upg then Code of Laws (10 turns)
As unit count reached support limit, traded Phil + 5g to Japan for HBR, started Adrianople, Const, Varna, Nicara, Caesarea on Temples.
in 1025 a dromon circumnavigating the Sumerians has a look east and sees yellow borders
Meet Egypt in 1000BC. I'm way ahead of them. Trade Polytheism for Writing + HBR.
Spare settler taken to Island south of Sumaria.
Mil in 925BC : 15 warriors, 4 chariot, 5 dromon, 9 workers
Code of Laws in 950. Now at last I can stop and save some cash for upgrades and hit Japan. 34gpt at max. 10 turns of that should make an impression.
Got 50g for a RoP with Sumeria !
Meet Russia in 925BC and sell Maths for 120g. Spend 45g upgrading last Curragh.
Iron Hooked up in 900BC - upgrade 1st 3 swords.
10th Sword (some upg, some built) in 730BC
Second settler arrives at SE island - Sumaria has 2 cities here too, and there are barbs from a hut which destroy settler
710 BC - sold HBR to Sumaria for 148g, upgrade chars to horses. 41 units, 40 supported. start researching currency (15 turns)


Declare War on Japan

1st 6 Swords unloads next to Osaka. 3 Dromons bombard, return to coast and get loaded with 4 swords and 2 cats
690 Sword stack resists archer attack. Dromons take 2 HP off each of 2 Spears on 2 HP off a warrior.
Osaka taken. 3 Dromons unload cargo, cats ping nme spear for 2 HP - swords finish that spear and a warrior
670 Japanese move 2 spears and 2 warriors adjacent to Osaka. Dromons collect Spear, Sword, 2 Horses, return and bombard. Cats bombard too - both nme spears reduced to 1HP.
650 Cats reduce incoming archer to 1 HP, finished by Elite. 6 Swords get on 3 dromons & get dropped along coast adjacent to second target - Edo. 4th Dromon picks up another sword and bombards spear on nme stack near Edo - reduces it to 1 HP. 5th Dromon joins
630 5 Dromons bombard Edo - taking 3 spear HP. Swords attack. Elite bops archer and gets an MGL! Next Sword dies - our 1st Casualty of the war. Next sword dies to Spear, but Edo finally succumbs. Remaining sword and one on galley take out adjacent stack. MGL builds Army in Edo, gets on Dromon and sails back round the coast.
4 enemy units enter Osaka's radius. Cats ping spear for 1HP, but my Sword dies and enemy promotes. Left spear, took out 2 loose archers instead.
610 Left garrison in Edo, brought Swords back to Osaka by boat to heal, regroup and join Army. 1 Dromon explores east coast. Tokyo has Black Death! Just as well Satsuma's next. Poprush harbor in Osaka.
590 Sword defends against incoming Archer & gets promoted. Harbor in Osaka We are now a 2-lux Civ! Sword and Horse get on Dromon and head for Satsuma.
570 Sword & Horse from mainland taken by Dromon to Osaka.
3 Swords including *Elite join army, which marches on Satsuma. Dromon unloads too by Satsuma. Cats ping nme galley & Dromon finishes. GA!
Japan has another galley coming up round east coast, send southern Dromon after it.
550 Take Satsuma. Sink 2 galleys. Japan will make peace for their 3 remaining cities, (including 2 on western island) but Kyoto culture could mean flip-peril.
530 Open embassies with Russia & Egypt and sign RoPs
510 Renewed RoP with Sumaria for 65g
490 Disaster! Edo flips - with 5 swords, 4 Dromons and a horse inside. 300 shields lost. That sucks iceburgs Their culture is about 1.5 x mine. Seems harsh - comments please...

Made Peace for every Japanese City (4) except the capital - and 3 workers.
Discover currency, trade it and CoL to Sumeria for Construction + 66g. Get Feudalism as freebie, and so do Sumerians. Start Republic (11t)
Plan now is to use remainder of GA to get libs / mts / temples up while researching Republic, and switch to that with a light military. Build libs then aquas in Japan.


470 Founded 2nd city on SE island - sharing with 2 Hittite cities.
450 started on SoZ in Nicea
310 spotting a blue border NW of Sumeria, I tried a suicide run and saw a Dutch galley! Ha! They have Republic, and mine drops in price. they don't have Lit, Poly, or Currency. Open embassy with them. Amsterdam is size 9 , but they're NE of Sumeria, so a lucky contact. They've got 7 spears in their capital, one lux and iron.
Rushed lib in Chalcedon on SE island.
290 Meet Maya, and establish embassy. They also have a huge army (11 units) in their capital.
Discover Republic, start Monotheism.
230 Meet the French. They're waay behind, but have at least 14 units in their capital - including 5 swords and 2 archers.
One civ left to find.
170 Complete Statue of Zeus!
Hittites are stronger, so I gift them Ivory.
130 Japan declare war on Hittites
110 got 85g for RoP with Sumeria
Sumer buids ToA
90BC Trade Literature for 8gpt + 190g to Sumaria
10BC Russians build Great Library. English complete Hanging Gardens
Trade Ivory to Dutch for Spices +100g + 1gpt
Trade Currency to Russia for 60g. They get Monotheism, which I buy with 11g. Gift Republic
10AD
Investigate Kyoto. It has 3 reg spears and a vet archer, galley in 3


50 AD Declare War on Japan
70 AD take Tokyo. Japan still not dead. Revolution - 8 turns! Grrrr :rant :fume: that's b*ll*cks
190 AD My Dromon chasing a Japanese galley arrives 1 turn too late - and they plonk a settler on the far western island. I watch 2 archers, 2 spears and a warrior splurge out of the new city.
210 AD Elizabeth appears. Contact established with all civs, though I don't know where the English are.
250 AD Republic declared. 314g, +5gpt, Theology in 9 turns, Sistine in 14 unless Tzu's built elsewhere within 9 turns, then it's Heroic Epic.



19 cites,

Mil :

11 workers
8 warriors
1 spear
9 swords (3 in an Army)
2 horses
13 pikes
2 cats
1 MI
6 dromon


Buildings:

1 granary
17 libraries
6 temples
4 barracks
3 mkts
4 aquas
8 harbors
1 courthouse
1 wonder (SoZ)

[jshelr]

Just a short update now that Liz has been met. At 660ad the Byz had run the Hittites out of their main continent and southern island. We have the lower gems near Sumaria as well. Gilgamesh lacks saltpeter, horses, and he's small. No problem.

Banks in the core area are nearing full completion. We are three required techs behind the impressive Dutch performance, but not really worried.

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by jshelr
Just a short update now that Liz has been met. At 660ad the Byz had run the Hittites out of their main continent and southern island. We have the lower gems near Sumaria as well. Gilgamesh lacks saltpeter, horses, and he's small. No problem.

Banks in the core area are nearing full completion. We are three required techs behind the impressive Dutch performance, but not really worried.

Okay so I saw 660bc at first not 660ad and my jaw was about to drop that you had banks. Oh the games our minds play with the things we see.

[Cort Haus]

Am I the only one so far with an Army stuck on an Island waiting for Galleons?

[Rhothaerill]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Am I the only one so far with an Army stuck on an Island waiting for Galleons?

I haven't even seen any type of great leader yet. No armies for me...yet hopefully.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Am I the only one so far with an Army stuck on an Island waiting for Galleons?

You might be, but I only put 2 knights in mine, so a caravel could carry it.

[ZargonX]

I haven't even seen any type of great leader yet. No armies for me...yet hopefully.

Since it's been brought up, I'll just complain now I've finished the course, and in my countless elite victories, I did not get a single MGL the entire game. Not a one. And don't even get me started on the SGL's

[ducki]

1400 BC - Two Dromons set sail with a settler and warrior in each. One to the South, one to the West.

1350 BC Maya complete Pyramids. French nab Colossus. Argh! Switch Caesarea from GLighthouse to GLibrary - should probably just take a shield loss and switch to units/improvements.

1075 BC - Island colonisation going well and uncontested. I just saw my first AI Curragh(Japan).

1050 BC - Naissus founded beyond the Island west of Byzantium, next to two cows.

1025 BC - GAAAAAHHHHHHHHRRRRRGHHHHHHHhhshahhah..... *whimper
Ducth complete Great Lighthouse.

950 BC - I'm number two on the list of greats behind England, I think. (Oddly, I am now well ahead of England. I wonder what happened to them...)

800 BC - Pop hut on island NW of Byzantium and get ... Construction! Whoo! With Philo optional, that means When I finish Currency in 9, I might skip on into the Middle Ages and use Fuedalism until Democracy. Since I plan on swallowing Japan, Sumeria, and Hittite, I'll need the troop support. The downside is the corruption. Speaking of which, I really should start thinking about FP placement. Hmmm...

750 BC - Contact Maya North of Sumeria.
Maya give me Currency and 5 gold for Writing.
Then they give me 240 gold for Horseback Riding. (I was very surprised throughout Ancient tech trading just now much the AI paid for HBR.)

710 BC - Currency and CoL to Russia for Monarchy.
Decide to waste 17 shields to take Hanging Gardens in 1 turn. Gotta get cranking on units and libraries, etc. Will probably Switch other wonder city to Great Wall and finish in 2. That's a total of 6 culture per turn and two Tourist Attractions - plus, when I established an embassy, I saw that Cathy was far ahead of me on the Library. Might as well nab this now and get on with what I should have been doing all along.

690 BC - Meet France and get another 100gold for Horseback Riding.

650 BC - Complete a settler, have GWall and HGardens. Revolt.
630 BC - Contact Netherlands - is that everyone now? No, I think I'm missing Lizzie. One problem with Philo costing so much - Now you can't even get Philo for Monarchy.

530 BC - FInally! Monarchy! Look out neighbors, I'm coming for ya!
470 BC - Trade Monotheism to Russia for Feudalism. Japan is woefully behind. Odds of smashing them at Chivalry look good.

pre150 BC - Lost yet another Dromon to the seas. I'm down to one now, and if I want to attack Japan any time soon, I can't be losing any more. Arg.

150 BC - Chivalry - Switch long lost prebuild to Templar. (Stupid Wonder addiction.)Get ready to roll over japan.

50 BC - Demand Japan get that Curragh out of my land or declare war - they declare. Dummies. Deliver 6 Med. Inf. and 4 Knights to Ivory town of Osaka. Tokie knows noone but me for now, so I won't bother with allies just yet - actually, I probably can't, can I?
He has what seems like an insane number of archers and spears. I should have waited for more knights.
Also, that stupid curragh attacked, so now I'm in a GA only slightly earlier than desired and stuck building units. At least it's not Despotic.

30 AD - Completed the Knights Templar. War is going "ok". Only taken one city, but Japan had an insane number of Archers and Spearmen. Luckily for me, my "galleys" can bombard. I've been destroying irrigation, plinking down spearmen, etc. I still only have a handful of troops in Japan, but more are coming every turn.

Note: It took about 5 or 6 turns to fend off the horde-o-archersandspears. If I hadn't had 6 or 7 Dromons constantly bombarding their troops and forcing retreats(and I used 1, later 2, to work around the coast bombarding roads and irrigation), I'd have been toast. They had that many troops.

210 AD - Move MGL Justinian to Iconium, the site of the former Japanese capitol(abandoned and resettled) to rush the FP next turn, after a rushed library completes. Had I known I'd get a Leader I could have saved a lot of money here and in Osaka. /sigh

230 AD - Rush FP. I'm so nervous. I do have 4 or 5 other elites to finish of the last two towns, so maybe I'll get another MGL...

IBT - Bastard Dutch demand 49 gold. I'm in no position to wage even a naval war. Grr. You will feel my wrath, prissy-boy. Just not right now.

260 AD - MM about 8 towns to Scientists to get Printing Press in 1 instead of 2. I dread going back and fixing all that, but maybe it'll be worth it.
Oops, I need Education and Banking for Democracy. Argh. On the upside, I trade Chivalry to France for Communication with the English and 1 gold.

Hey, I can sell Philo to England for 20 of her 23 gold! Yippee! After that, I'll wait for her to make some more money and sell her Construction or Republic.


What's odd about this game? Erm, uh, the very broad range of advancement, or rather, the lack thereof, of the various civs. I just finished Printing Press, noone has any techs to trade me, and I just sold Philosophy to England, who is in contact with France, who is only behind by Theology, Invention, and Printing Press.

It was nice to see AI Curraghs, but they seemed to wait a long time. Only Sumeria of my nearby neighbors seems interested in colonization. It was funny to lose my explorer Dromons and Curraghs after finding everyone but England and then giving up so I could fight a war that lasted until I was able to just trade for contact. I haven't explored as well as normal, though I'm sure far better than the AI.

Oh, and I got an MGL and I actually have an FP. Schweet!

[Catt]

Stock rules. Demi-god.

From AAR 1, I researched Pottery, then Writing at maximum research. After the discovery of Writing, I had to decide on the next tech -- it was either going to be Map Making or Philosophy. I decided to go after Map Making because: (1) I didn't have a sense of where other civs might be in the research path (not many wonder pop-ups) and didn't want to race for Philosophy and come up empty; (2) there were large swaths of unsettled land within reach and I needed transport capable naval units; (3) my initial curragh exploring indicated that I could use 4-move galleys to much better effect than 3-move curraghs; and, finally, (4) I habored wild hopes of securing the Great Lighthouse which would enable early trade over sea squares (Caesarea in the far NW was using a granary as a pre-build for the GL).

By 1475 bc I had discovered Japan, Sumeria, Hittites, and three uninhabited islands. After using the "no military units = no barbs" trick on the initial goody hut, I decided to use the "no barbs if a city within 1 tile" trick for the second goody hut (screenshot below).

I still hadn't made any tech trades. In my experience, in an archipelago or quasi-archipelago, it is well worth your while to beeline towards expensive techs and allow the AI civs to wallow in limited space while they research a bunch of lower level techs. I was researching MM and from there would look furtherinto the tech tree but didn't have ceremonial burial, the wheel, masonry, etc.

Catt

[Catt]

In 1275 bc my foolish fantasies of securing the GL were dashed when I learned that the Dutch had succeeded in building that wonder. I was still 3 turns from Map Making.

In 1175 bc separate curraghs discovered both the Dutch and the English. The English didn't have Writing, but did have all of my missing 1st-level techs as well as Iron Working (and who knows how many additional 2nd- or even 3rd-level techs since I lacked so many pre-requisities). The Dutch on the other hand had IW and both Philosophy and Code of Laws

By 1125 bc another curragh discovered both the Egyptians and the Russians. The Egyptians were horribly backward but the Russians had a slight tech lead over me -- I concluded that the two civs had been at war for some time and the Egyptians were suffering. I decided to launch the massive trading round, beginning with Alphabet and then Writing to Egypt (since Russia already had them both) for all the first and second level techs I could get. I proceeded to the poor backwards Japanese, trading Pottery and Masonry for the remaining early techs I lacked. A series of trades among the more advanced civs brought me into a leadership position -- the key being that England lacked Writing (and MM) but had discovered Construction; Construction and Polytheism brought Phil and CoL from the Dutch; at the end of trading I was one turn from Literature, and owned all known techs -- every other civ lacked one or more required techs except the Dutch.

I decided to research Currency instead of Republic or Monarchy -- with the number of workers I'd need to clear neighboring islands and / or the number of units I'd want to take Japan, I wasn't rushing towards Republic. In 850 bc I found the French and they miracuously had already discovered Currency but not Construction, Map Making, Polytheism, etc. -- I traded for Currency and entered the Middle Ages getting Monotheism as my free tech. I haven't yet traded Map Makinf to anyone (hoping to slow, if only marginally, any AI settler parties). The Dutch do not yet have a gov tech and lack currency. Republic is ~30 turns away.

Here's a screenshot of the current empire. Because I've been running max research and intend to continue to do so, I've converted most builds to libraries. Although I have the ability to build cathedrals, I haven't yet built a temple. I need to take out the barb camp in the north, but don't have the strength to do so yet --the wimpy C3C barbs never left their camp, and that camp has something like 15 horsemen / warriors even before the end-of-age uprising. I just hooked up iron to build / upgrade a few swords to take out the barbs and in the meantime have built a defenisve wall for my rexing peace.

Catt

[Catt]

Two thoughts on my approach and C3C features to date:

I decided to leave the Japanese alone for the near term. I figure they'll be so backwards that I can take them at any time, and I'd prefer to concentrate on rexing now to secure a big chunk of the island to my north west. With sufficient dromons / curraghs, no one will contact the Japanese for a long time so they'll always be backwards. Ironically, the access to Ivory and the SoZ may be a severe hindrance to Japan (they don't yet have Mathematicsso it's only my speculation) -- they'll be so backwards that the free ACs may bankrupt them. I've decided to take the Japanese island when it suits me, but plan an FP on the NW island after hordes and hordes of workers clear jungles and marshes.

The power of seafaring (at least for exploration and contacts) in the initial C3C release is absurd. This map is certainly favorable since one must risk sinking on only a few occassions in order to secure worldwide contacts -- but I didn't lose a curragh to sinking (though several to barbs) before contacting all civs. I had a ridiculous string of luck and traversed a huge ocean -- the extra move combined with the reduced sinking chance -- makes it too likely to succeed in less challenging circumstances. Ironically, my long ocean passage didn't help in any way -- other curraghs had already contacted the long-lost continents when the "lost ship" made it safely to port. So though the "vapor trail" below looks crazy, it wasn't a benefit and ended up being no more than an oddity in this game.

I personally don't like restricting sea / ocean access to certain units. But the seafaring's reduced sinking chances needs to be removed, IMHO, and probably the extra movement point as well. Extra city tile commerce and cheap improvements (and perhaps also naval units?) might make a more interesting and less unbalanced trait.

Catt

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Catt
...I decided to use the "no barbs if a city within 1 tile" trick for the second goody hut (screenshot below).

Are you certain this always works?

[notyoueither]

I don't see 9 civs in contact, do you have 9 other civs, Catt? [Damn, I was looking at 1100BC map, not 850.]

btw, Your good luck was my bad. I lost the little boat headed for the English. From that mini map, I would say you have been phenomenally lucky to have all contacts by that point. Average would be somewhat less or longer, no?

[Catt]

Originally posted by notyoueither
btw, Your good luck was my bad. I lost the little boat headed for the English. From that mini map, I would say you have been phenomenally lucky to have all contacts by that point. Average would be somewhat less or longer, no?

I think the average would be to lose a few more curraghs than I did. But I don't consider my luck exceptional by any means -- sure, the ridiculous trip west over 6 or 7 turns was very lucky, but by the time it made landfall safely, curraghs that headed east from the homeland had already reached the landing point.

If I had been unlucky and lost my "north to (it turns out) England)" curragh, I would have found it pretty soon thereafter via Sumeria or the Dutch. I was not building any land units and was instead building curraghs and workers. And I was starting to stream curraghs west thinking that there must be something out there to the west of the jungle islands, too. Less luck to my west might have fouled some trades by throwing off the timing of those trades, but fact of the matter is that on an isolation map (such as this) the AI civs will stagnate and very profitable trades will be available "late" in the early game, IMHO.

The fact that this map emphasized, for me, and only in the early game thus far, is that 25% sinking chance is too much -- every single civ is within a "one sinking chance" trip and it's just a matter of poking ships out into sea and looking for possible routes and then taking the risk -- at 25% chance of sinking, even two turns in dangerous water means a better than average chance of survival. That's too much.

Catt

[Catt]

Originally posted by Dominae

Are you certain this always works?

I would say "Yes!" but your question makes me think you have evidence otherwise. In the original "here are the goody hut rules" post by Mike B. from Firaxis, he stated that barbs would not come from a hut within one tile of a city. When you found a city next to a goody hut, you get the chance to name the city before the goody hut is popped -- note in my screenshot that Smyrna "exists" in that I was prompted for its name, its cultural border is expanding, and the settler info in the unit box already identifies the "settler" as "Smyrna."

In other words, I may be wrong, but I've relied on an old Mike B. post many times and never suffered for it (though in this game I suffered in the sense that I had to send a pair of workers in to drain the marsh before I could build a city).

Catt

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by ZargonX


Since it's been brought up, I'll just complain now I've finished the course, and in my countless elite victories, I did not get a single MGL the entire game. Not a one. And don't even get me started on the SGL's

Maybe that's because your spent all your time playing, and not taking many notes