AU501 - DAR3: Contact with all other civs

[lockstep]

AAR, part 3 (again somewhat longer)

530 BC: Landmass N of sea lane; Russia demands HR, I decline, they declare war
510 BC: Contact with Mayas, are backward; Rotterdam (Dutch) finishes Mausoleum of Mausollos
470 BC: Republic; border N of Mayas; iron connected; Smyrna finishes worker
450 BC: Contact with France, is backwards; Wri to France for 221g; Constantinople finishes barracks; Ur (Sumeria) finishes Great Library
430 BC: 3 warrior upgraded to swordsman; Constantinople finishes spearman; Adrianople finishes spearman

At this time, Constantinople had reached 20 shields pt and was thus able to crank out a spearman in a single turn. I decided that going for another ancient wonder (e.g. Hanging Gardens) would be foolhardy because there had to be a lot of AI wonder builds out there. Also, Map Making would sooner or later be researched by the AIs, so it was time to build up some homeland defense. And then there were those backward Japanese who happened to have ivory, but neither Mathematics nor Iron Working.

410 BC: Constantinople finishes spearman; Nicae fininshes barracks
390 BC: Mathematics, start Construction; embassy with Japan for 33g; Kyoto will finish Temple of Artemis in 16t; Constantinople finishes spearman; Varna finishes worker
370 BC: Border E of France; Constantinople finishes spearman; Paris (France) finishes Temple of Artemis
350 BC: Contact with Dutch, are backwards, CB to Dutch for 60g; Constantinople finishes spearman; Caesarea finishes temple; Kyoto (Japan) finishes Hanging Gardens
330 BC: Japan demands HR, I decline, they back down
310 BC: Constantinople finishes settler; Caesarea finishes worker
290 BC: Construction, start Currency; Heraclea finishes temple
270 BC: Peace with Hittites for peace; Lit to Japan for 20g, Lit to to France for 5gpt, 60g
230 BC: Trebizond founded; Adrianople finishes swordsman
210 BC: Nicae finishes swordsman, Smyrna finishes temple
170 BC: Constantinople finishes Colosseum; Caesare finishes dromon; Heraclea finishes barracks
150 BC: Currency (-> Middle Ages), start Monotheism; Feudalism (free tech)
110 BC: 6 sworsman upgraded to Med infantry
90 BC: Adrianople finishes dromon; 2 spearman upgraded to pikeman
70 BC: Constantinople finishes marketplace
50 BC: Caesarea finishes settler
30 BC: Myst to Dutch for spices, 37g, HR to France for 36g; Constantinople finishes Med infantry; Adrianople finishes dromon
10 BC: Nicae finishes harbor

At this point I decided to go for the inevitable invasion of Japan with 7 Med infantry, 2 pikeman and 3 dromon. It turned out that this was not enough even on Monarch. I should have guessed so - Japan was so backward that it couldn't build most of the city improvements, so they had built spearmen and archers instead. (I then suceeded with a 2nd wave of 9 Med infantry, 3 pikeman and 3 dromon. And for something completely different: I had finally cleared some of the swamp in the NE.)

10 AD: Declare war on Japan; 4 Med infantry, 2 pikeman land near Osaka; Chalcedon founded; Constantinople finishes Med infantry; Varna finishes library
30 AD: 2 Med infantry win, 2 killed; 3 Med infantry land near Osaka
50 AD: Contact with England, is backward
70 AD: 1 Med infantry wins, 1 killed; strongest unit in Osaka is healthy spearman; decide to retreat for now; Smyrna finishes aqueduct
90 AD: Constantinople finishes Med infantry
110 AD: Caesarea finishes settler; Heraclea finishes aqueduct
130 AD: Poly to Dutch for 32g; Lit to England for 31g; Constantinople finishes Med infantry; Adrianople rushes Med infantry;
150 AD: 3 Med infantry, 3 pikeman land near Osaka; Trebizond finishes library; Constantinople has 1010 culture, 24 culture pt
170 AD: Monotheism, start Theology; 6 Med infantry land near Osaka; strongest unit in Osaka is healthy warrior
190 AD: Osaka captured; peace with Japan for peace, 1g

Status:
10 cities (52 pop points)
Pyramids, Great Lighthouse
5 barracks, 9 granary (Pyramids!), 7 temple, 1 marketplace, 8 library, 3 harbor, 1 colosseum, 2 aqueduct
1 settler, 7 worker, 4 spearman, 1 pikeman, 8 Med infantry, 4 dromon

Plans for the future:
a) Connect ivory, i.e. build harbor in Osaka
b) Build cathedral in Constantinople and set luxury at 0%,
c) Build Statue of Zeus in Constantinople, amass some Ancient Cavalry and eliminate Japan,
d) If c) doesn't yield a GA (by attacking Japanese curraghs), find another way to trigger GA,
e) Settle uninhabited island in the W before someone else does
f) Continue tech brokering and gain a substantial tech lead
g) Let Constantinople build every Middle Age wonder (with high culture per turn) that it can grab.

EDIT: h) In addition to g), go for a 20k cultural victory in Constantinople - 27 shields pt has to be more than enough on Monarch.

[alexman]

As the world entered a new millennium, there was a growing desire among Byzantines to board their recently-built Dromons and emigrate from their increasingly crowded island to live a simpler life in the tropical islands to the west. Needless to say, Theodora found that sentiment insulting. How can they think that the stress of city living was not a trivially small price to pay for living on the very same island as she did? It’s true that her Granary cities were continuously producing settlers and workers, and that those workers had already cleared the northern marshland and were now asking for new work. They could have easily converted the jungle islands to beautiful grassland, but Theodora had other plans for them.

This was no time for vacation on tropical islands. Theodora was planning to attack Japan, but even though she had more land, more money, and a lot more knowledge than Tokugawa, her foreign advisors kept saying that he was not far from her equal in power. That meant only one thing: his military was a force to be reasoned with. Since Tokugawa was getting more and more powerful, teaching him a lesson would require a concentrated effort by every single citizen. Extra workers settled down in towns with access to fresh water and turned them into great cities. After making sure almost every city got a Library, Theodora funded a great boatbuilding, warrior training, and siege weapon construction program. Cities with harbors built Dromons, cities with Barracks built Warriors and Spearmen, and other cities built Catapults. Varna was the only city excluded from this program, as her citizens were busy building a top secret Great Wonder for many hundreds of years.

Tokugawa evidently heard of Theodora’s decision to build up her military, so he got desperate. In 850 BC he demanded Mathematics, and when Theodora refused, he declared war. Since Japan had no knowledge of Map Making, all Dromons were ordered back into port so that conflict would be avoided. Such a peace-loving hippie, this Theodora…

In 950 BC Byzantine exploring Curraghs discovered Russia next to Egypt. Theodora was happy to hear of another female leader to the east, but she was somewhat shocked after seeing her portrait. Catherine was clearly overweight, so Theodora tricked her into paying Russia’s entire treasury (34g) in exchange for her low-carb secret diet. Little did Catherine know that Theodora owed her great figure to her high metabolism, not to a fad diet.

In 800 BC, Gilgamesh and Mursilis resumed their fighting. Byzantine scientists had just discovered Currency and Theodora immediately put it to use: she asked Gilgamesh for 40 gold coins to go shopping, because otherwise she would take Mursilis’ side in the argument. Gilgamesh gladly funded Theodora’s shopping spree.

The Sumerians completed their Great Lighthouse project in 775 BC. Theodora was becoming increasingly impressed with Gilgamesh and the lengths to which he went in order to impress her. This was a Wonder that Theodora would have loved to have, but she would not have been able to compete for it without neglecting more pressing needs of her empire. The Sumerians were clearly more efficient than the Byzantines in Wonder construction.

In 750 BC, a brave Dromon captain survived a dangerous Ocean crossing and discovered the great civilization of the Mayas. Theodora met with their leader, who had obviously heard of her good looks even if he lived across the ocean from her. Things were going well until she realized that he wasn’t joking when he told her his name was “Smoke-Jaguar”. After barely containing her laughter, she decided that this guy and had some serious issues. Nevertheless, she taught him Map Making in exchange for Construction, which ended the Ancient age in the Byzantine Empire. Byzantine scientists instantly applied their new knowledge of Construction to develop Engineering, and then started working on the concept of Feudalism.

In 710 BC, that same Domon captain discovered France. Joan had led her small civilization in building several ancient Wonders, but she had fallen behind in technology. Theodora felt generous, so she taught her Philosophy, Math, Map Making, and Horseback Riding in exchange for Monarchy and peace.

Like most women, Theodora dreamed of being a princess ever since she was a little girl. Now that Joan taught her about Monarchy, her dreams could finally become reality. After establishing embassies with the Maya and Hittites, in 690 BC she staged a revolution to overthrow her own Despotism.

It wasn’t until 590 BC that the Byzantine Monarchy was established, but at that point Theodora felt like a new woman. She was going to fight back against Tokugawa, who was still at war against her. She sent one of her Dromons to sink a Japanese Curragh, thereby starting what is known now as the Golden Age of Byzantium.

The next two hundred years of prosperity were used by Theodora to accelerate the production of military units and ships, while researching towards Invention. She also built some Aqueducts in order to absorb the rest of her Workers into cities to take advantage of the extra production.

In 570 BC, the Sumerians used their Great Lighthouse to navigate all the way to the Mayan lands. They used the Great Library and their new contact with the Maya, who like the Byzantines were already in the Middle Ages, to gain knowledge to Currency and Construction. Just like that, they discovered Feudalism before the Byzantines, who had been researching this technology for several years, and traded it to the Mayas. Theodora decided to give her Engineering secrets to the Mayas in exchange for Feudalism, and started working on Invention. She also traded Engineering to the Sumerians in exchange for some gold per turn and an alliance against Japan. Theodora didn’t really need Gilgamesh’s help against Tokugawa, but she didn’t want any trading between Japan and Sumeria, in order to keep Japan technologically backwards.

England was discovered in 490 BC, and Theodora got to ask Elisabeth all about her Hanging Gardens. Now just the Dutch remained to be discovered.

In 510 BC, it was Mursilis’ turn to fund Theodora’s shopping spree with 50g, and in 450BC Catherine shelled out another 54g for the second edition of “Theodora’s dieting secrets” in Russian.

In 390 BC, Gilgamesh ruined all the hard work he had done to impress Theodora by breaking their alliance against Tokugawa, barely 9 turns after it was signed. He even refused to continue paying the gold per turn associated with that deal. Why was she not surprised? “All men are liars”, she sighed. Later, in 210 BC, when Gilgamesh wanted to cancel their gems-for-horses deal, Theodora was furious. Her smile might have lost some of its power over Gilgamesh as she got older, but she knew other tricks. She threw a temper tantrum and threatened with war, and not only did Gilgamesh agree on the deal, but he also gave her 7gpt to go with it. Ha!

Byzantine scientists learned Invention in 310 BC, only to discover that the Mayan and Sumerian scientists already knew these secrets. Gilgamesh’s Great Library was beginning to annoy Theodora. If only she weren’t in such a hurry to learn Invention, things would have been different for the Sumerians.

Theodora was not shocked to learn that “Smoke-Jaguar” had finally lost it. She was shocked, however, to learn that her poor friend Joan had paid for his whacky behavior. He took over her small empire in 170 BC, including control of the Colossus, the Oracle, and the Temple of Artemis. Gilgamesh, apparently feeling guilty about his earlier behavior, decided to teach Smoke-Jag a lesson and declared war on him. The problem was that the Mayas now had possession of the Gunpowder secrets.

Theodora finally met William of the Netherlands in 130 BC, she asked him where he had been hiding all her life, and she told him that she had searched the entire world to find him. He was mildly flattered and bought Engineering from her for a bunch of gold.

After hundreds and hundreds of years of worth of building, the town of Varna finally completed her Great Wonder in 10 BC. Theodora was not pleased that it had taken so long, but it was worth the wait. Leonardo’s Workshop could be used to upgrade the Byzantine military to modern standards. It’s too bad that the recent discovery of Gunpowder did not reveal any saltpeter locations within the Byzantine island, but the invasion of Japan was not going to be held up by such details. Tokugawa's time had come at last!

[vmxa1]

Nice story, very entertaining. Do you always have the buttons on the side?

[ducki]

You can put the buttons on the side?!?

[alexman]

Yes, it happens when you press backspace. I did it just for the screenshot though.

[Mountain Sage]

730BC – The Year of Water Storm
“They will eat our logs for dinner!” Theodora dixit.
[The Hittites declared war on us; we entered our GA]

670BC – The Year of Farvision
“So our logs will see farther an better. Will their captains the be wiser?” Theodora dixit.
[We finished the Great Lighthouse]

530BC – The Year of the Squares
“After the triangles, the squares. Were is our world going?” Theodora dixit.
[We discovered the Maya. Traded Philosophy and HR for Construction and 480 gold]

530BC – The Year of the Double Post
“Yea, one done, another one to go.” Theodora dixit.
[We entered the Middle Ages, Engineering free, going for Feudalism]

510BC – The Year of the Useful Spies
“Ah, peace and discovery.” Theodora dixit.
[We made peace with the Hittites for 21 gold and traded HE with the Dutch for 69 gold]

470BC – The Year of the Frogs
“MS, tell me frankly, don’t you thing frogs taste a bit too… slimly?” Theodora dixit.
[We discovered the French, at war with the Mayans]

450BC – The Year of the Unknown Poet
“Who the hell is Pliny? Well, give him a spare ring.” Theodora dixit.
[According to Pliny, we are the most advanced civ]

430BC – The Year of the Long-Lost Tribe
“Bathing in lukewarm milk? That’s worse than disgusting!” Theodora dixit.
[We discovered the English, traded Literature for 42 gold + 6/turn]

[Mountain Sage]

430BC: we are still expanding (west). The new Pikemen will be heading to the islands as garrison. With walls, it's pretty effective.

[Mountain Sage]

Our military. Now that we have a foothold on the eastern continent, we will go for the Hittites. Serves them well. Another PP game ruined. AND they blew up our GA.

[Mountain Sage]

Our family picture...

[Mountain Sage]

Our techs and economics. Until now, we stayed for the most part on the 30-70% range. We have a 2 techs lead min.

[Tall Stranger]

Man, no one has posted here in a couple of days. Starting to think I'm gonna be the last one to finish this game up!!

Anyway, reminder I'm playing the AU mod at Emp level. At the end of my last DAR, I was pretty well in a great position. I was beginning plans for my conquest of Japan and had a tech lead with all the civs I'd met (all but French, Netherlands and English).

1175BC: Trade Polytheism to Maya for Code of Laws and 171g, start on Republic.

1150BC: Final city on the home island (Sardica) is founded, at the tip of the marsh nearest to Sumeria.

1075BC: Make contact with the France, who have nothing to trade. Seems to be a common theme of the civs I've met so far.

1050BC: I start my colonization of the nearest island to the west, founding Naissus on the jungle spot near the game on the island's southeast coast. Start cranking out workers so I can clear this.

975BC: Dyrrachium founded on island, near the fish. It too starts on workers.

750BC: With my strike force of about 12 swords ready, I declare on Japan; seeking complete destruction (I take Osaka and its valuable ivory next turn.)

670BC: I seize Satsuma, near the gold mountain in Japan. One of my dromons makes contact with Netherlands, who also have nothing to trade. What is with the AI?

650BC: Japan sends a warrior towards Satsuma, which I quickly dispatch. However, from the hill I can see that the plague has hit Kyoto. CRAP!! Not only will I have to refrain from taking Kyoto, but I need to worry about it spreading. (Nice touch, Dom!) To protect the force, I start cutting roads to Osaka. Fortunately, a Japanese warrior helped me by pillaging the road to Satsuma.

610BC: I take Tokyo, on the southeastern hill in Japan.

570BC: Shifting my force around, I move against Edo, on the westernmost side of the island. It falls, thanks to the wonders of dromon bombardment. I love these ships.

550BC: After taking a slight pause after Edo, I am pleased to find that the plague has ended at Kyoto. I start the final assault.

530BC: Kyoto falls, and and I luck out, getting an MGL. As I've already decided that Sumeria needs to go next, I'll use this for an army. Once Kyoto fell, I decided that it was a good time to go into anarchy and become a Republic. (I was still 8 turns from the Great Lighthouse, but felt pretty good that I'd get it.) Get the message that anarchy will last 6 turns, which is pretty good.

410BC: The Byzantine Republic is founded, whereupon I am horrified at my support level. I've probably got 30 units excess. This could be harder than I thought. Need to get that second lux (ivory) hooked up soon.

370BC: Osaka builds a harbor, thus ivory is flowing. This makes things a bit better, but the Maya are gaining on my tech lead.

290BC: Greedy for luxuries, I decide I've waited long enough to take down Sumerians. I also plan (bad idea as it turns out) to do so while actively colonizing the rest of the first western island and building up my domestic infrastructure. Upon looking at the map, I develop a plan to cut these islands off from interlopers. As you can see, there's only one sea lane from the Maya/France/Netherlands (and eventually English) area to both the first and second western islands. Once the Lighthouse is done, I will place a dromon on permanent patrol there, making it impossible for any of those civs to land a settler there until they can travel on ocean squares. I assume my mil is strong enough to handle the Sumerians, who don't even have iron. With that settled (so to speak), I declare on Sumeria and land near Lagash, by his southern gem deposit.

270BC: I take Lagash, barely.

250BC: Nicaea completes the Great Lighthouse completed. Woo-hoo, can now trade with all. I start by getting Dye from Russia for ivory and iron working.

210BC: I take Kish, which is in the north, near the fish and gems.

190 BC: I've suspected for some time that the English are not to the east of the French, but rather to the west of the Maya. Now that I can safely traverse sea squares, I make a left at the Mayas and meet the English, who are not a tech competitor either.

At this point, I still feel pretty good. My biggest (only) competition will be the Maya, who are at about the same tech level as me and seem perpetually annoyed at me.

[steven8r]

Originally posted by Tall Stranger
Man, no one has posted here in a couple of days. Starting to think I'm gonna be the last one to finish this game up!!

Perspire Not! Tall Stranger. You're not the last one. I will post eventually, but have had to put Civ on a minor hiatus briefly. There'll be more posts. Oh yes, there will be more!!!

Steven

[Aqualung71]

Tall Stranger, I’m right behind you!

Emperor level, AU mod…..Warpstorm’s watercolours, which I think are really cool!

This is my first post, but I’ve been reading all the others with great interest. Forgive the rambliness, but some background is necessary.

Seems I’ve followed the path of most people here, but I tend to be somewhat slower than the rest of you. Partly because of my poor early MM and partly because I lost a few Curraghs to the RNG when trying to cross the sea. My arrival at DAR2 was further slowed by my concentration on building Libraries to keep up the research pace rather than Dromons….in any case, I didn’t have enough military to contemplate an invasion of Japan at this stage. Also, my couple of remaining Curraghs that weren’t lying at the bottom of the sea were drifting helplessly around the globe, missing presumed lost and many years away from a harbour for upgrade. I therefore didn’t build a Dromon until around the time Christ was born. I’ve now arrived at DAR3 at 680AD after finally contacting the English by buying communication with them from another civ (is that cheating Dom?), although my Curragh was only a few turns away from finding them as it turned out.

This is my first try with the Byzantines since I’ve never been excited by the scientific trait nor their UU. I’m glad I played this though – it’s given me a great appreciation of the benefits of the scientific trait and the Dromon, which really dominates the seas for a long time, not to mention it’s ability to sit offshore and pound the infantry enemy leaving your Horsemen to duck out of town, clean up the redliners and be home for dinner!

When I moved into the Middle Ages I scored Feudalism, which I quickly traded for Monotheism and Engineering – the goal being Theology for Sistine, which was to become my first wonder and one that I usually have no hope of getting at Emperor. Looking at it this way, the free advance at the start of an age, with proper planning, can be worth 3 due to the trading opportunities it can create.

I finally invaded Japan in 360AD with Swordsmen and MI, supported by a couple of Pikes. About 10 units landed next to Osaka and took it quite easily. After a MGL leader was created and a MI army formed using reinforcements from the homeland, the rest was just a matter of time. I foolishly cut off my own iron supply to quickly build a bunch of horsemen so I could upgrade them to Knights, unaware that the upgrade cost was 120 per horse….never doing that again! Serves me right for trying to be clever! Luckily the Japs only had Spearmen, so my hordes of Horsemen were adequate back up troops. No iron or horses eh, what a bummer!

My immediate objective was to take their capital, Kyoto, which beat me to SoZ and from that point on Japan was doomed to face the wrath of the Empress. After taking over the island, I granted the Emperor peace. He had already colonized the island to the north-west and had one city on the island to the south-west, shared with the Sumerians and Hittites. Astonishingly, he gave me 5 of his 6 cities for peace, leaving only his capital. Feeling generous I left him alone – although he was so far behind in tech his continued survival would never give me any tech trade bonuses. The mighty Emperor had fallen.….and to a woman at that – the Emperor lost so much face he committed Hari Kari, so my spies tell me. What’s more, the scourge of the Samurai was now never to be – a good thing for the world so I thought. No Tom Cruises running around on MY soil wearing dresses and beating rifles and cannons with fancy swords! So why are all the other civs so annoyed with me?

The Japanese war generated my GA as my Dromons were actively involved. I was still a Despot, with my move to Republic being delayed due to my military build-up and wonder building….as has become fairly typical for me now with C3C. Still, I couldn't wait any longer as my citizens needed new lands. A despotic GA is not as bad as I had first thought, since it effectively give you the same production and income as a Republic, without the WW downside. Granted, you miss the huge power punch of a Republic GA, but it’s not the end of the world.

The daft Hittites then decided to walk into my undefended ex-Japanese town in 660AD, sparking a mini-war. My Dromon sped in with a couple of angry Knights Templars and deposited them in front of Mursilis' doorstep cutting off his reinforcements, though the end result of that little conflict belongs in the next post.

The Dutch and the Maya had sprinted 3 techs ahead of me after consistently sharing their knowledge between themselves, so I picked Music Theory next, both for JS Bach and for the trade value...an unusual choice for me to pick an optional tech, but I wanted that wonder and was not confident of completing Copernicus. I have to agree with nbarclay here – the added flavours for the AI gives the human player an unseen bonus by giving more tech trading opportunities.

By 680AD then, having met all rival civs, I was 2 turns away from MT, 3rd/4th in size and population and in the top 3 of all economic measures. I was 8th out of 10 on overall score, but second only in power to the Dutch. Culturally I was mid-range, but gaining ground. 3 techs behind the Dutch and 2 behind the Maya, but poised to make my move. Looking forward to the Industrial age and the effects of the small but significant tech tree change!

Very interesting game so far.

[Aqualung71]

Screen shot......

[Arrian]

Right, picking up from DAR2...

It was shortly after building the three cities on the island to my west (each garrisoned by a warrior) that I found out something that I would live with for quite some time: the Dutch are absolute BASTARDS in this game.

I met them off the northern Sumerian coast - they had a galley coming down, and I had a Dromon moving up. Shortly thereafter, they dropped 2 warriors right next to my "marsh game" city.

At this point I did something that some people might consider exploitish. I traded them 76 gold +28gpt (my maximum, even using a taxman) for Construction. Then I demanded they leave. They declared war, of course.

The next turn they destroyed my game marsh city (I don't recall my warrior even taking a hp off of theirs). Then they marched on my iron hill city, which had the advantage of having a vet warrior instead of a regular, and of course being on the hill. It repulsed the first attack, but then they dropped off two more warriors (and 2 spearmen) and my warrior was unable to fend off the first of these. So I lost that city too.

I did sign up the Hittites in an alliance vs. the Dutch, hoping they would take some pressure off me. It may have worked, I don't really know. The Hittites surprised me by staying alive and managing not to lose any ground, since they were fighting the Sumerians too.

I was able to do 3 things during this stage that I was pleased with:

1) Re-found my iron hill city after the Dutch had marched south, going after my last remaining city on that island. This time I had a regular spearman for garrison.

2) Keep my Dromon out of battle.

3) Trade horses for ivory from the Japanese, and start Zeus (they still didn't have Math!).

Additionally, I discovered something I didn't know about Conquests:

Mausolous will trigger the Byzantine GA. I had forgotten to change it over to the Great Library, so I completed it in error, and to my great surprise, triggered my GA. I went back and switched it, both because I never intended to let it finish and because I sure as hell didn't want a despotic GA.

I managed to finish the Great Library. I got feudalism as my free tech. I also researched Republic.

Back to the Dutch being bastards. Just after getting republic, I finally gave them currency for peace. I had been trying to make peace for a while, but because I was militarily weak and not doing anything to threaten them, they laughed at me. I was offering 100 gold, 200 gold... they laughed. So finally I coughed up currency, and traded it to the Sumerians (in their GA, fighting the Hittites) too.

Two turns later, the Dutch demanded Literature, and declared war when I refused. *sigh* They got me back for the Construction thing. Two turns after THAT, the Sumerians demanded Literature. That time I caved, which means the Dutch ended up getting Lit anyway.

I still haven met the Maya, but I know they're out there - they built the Pyramids.

I finished Zeus. I also began milking the GL for all it was worth, and using my cash to rush assist many goodies for my empire. I also got Constantinople up to 20 shields/turn and ordered it to start Sun Tzu.

As I played onward into the night, I got greedy. I made peace with the Dutch again for 100 gold (bastards!) and started pumping out 1-turn warriors in a couple of cities. I had not connected my iron, you see. Anyway, I ended up upgrading ~6 spears to pikes and ~15 warriors to med infs. I loaded 3 pikemen, 1 ancient cavalry, and 6 med infs onto 5 Dromon, and invaded Japan.

DISASTER.

I made a couple of mistakes. First, I underestimated just how many units (even if they were shitty units) an Emperor-level AI stuck on a small island for several millenia would have. Second, due to my overconfidence in my pikemen, I dropped my invasion force 4 of Osaka, which is flat land.

My pikemen went down to 1 horsemen and 3 archers. My ancient cav ran away from 1 archer and was killed by another. My 6 med infs... well, I admit I didn't watch too closely at this point. I think they may have killed 3-4 archers. And, to add ultimate insult to injury, my last med inf, elite with 2 hps, generated a GL while killing a warrior, and was then dispatched by an archer.

It was 450AD, and it was 1 hour past the time I was supposed to have gone to bed, so I saved and quit. I'm 8 turns from Sun Tzu, though I'm hoping to switch to Leos. I have cut off my iron again (sold my harbor in my iron hill city... the homeland iron still isn't roaded ) and will be doing another mass upgrade. I'll get it right this time. Japan's goin' DOWN.

-Arrian

[Arrian]

I haven't read any DARs yet. I did, however, just glance at Alexman's. THIRTY FOUR DROMON?!?!?

Holy naval power, Batman!

-Arrian

[Dominae]

Originally posted by Thriller
Warpstorm’s watercolours, which I think are really cool!

Yes, it should be the standard tileset. Or maybe they'll hire Warpstorm for Civ4?

I’ve now arrived at DAR3 at 680AD after finally contacting the English by buying communication with them from another civ (is that cheating Dom?)

Assuming you have Printing Press, that's fine.


Dominae

[Arrian]

Hmm, must not read this thread yet. I apparently have more civs still to meet than I knew about (I figured the Maya from their completion of the Pyramids, but I saw England and France on MS's F4 screen).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Arrian
I haven't read any DARs yet. I did, however, just glance at Alexman's. THIRTY FOUR DROMON?!?!?

Holy naval power, Batman!

-Arrian

plus 18 trebs and almost no offensive units ... I haven't read that DAR but I look forward to it.

I also look forward to reading your revenge against Japan, Arrian. You're not the only one to have met rather a lot of green units. Catt met them too, and possibly NYE. Me, I got jumped by a swarm of TMC's in Hittite-land. My Japanese nightmare, though, was Edo flipping taking 300s of units with it.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Mountain Sage
... Now that we have a foothold on the eastern continent, we will go for the Hittites. Serves them well. Another PP game ruined. AND they blew up our GA.

Is there such a thing as PP in Conquests? I gave up Peace-Play in C3C after the third attempt.

:nostalgia for the PTW pure builder days:

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Cort Haus


plus 18 trebs and almost no offensive units ... I haven't read that DAR but I look forward to it.

I also look forward to reading your revenge against Japan, Arrian. You're not the only one to have met rather a lot of green units. Catt met them too, and possibly NYE. Me, I got jumped by a swarm of TMC's in Hittite-land. My Japanese nightmare, though, was Edo flipping taking 300s of units with it.

I forgot one other thing about invading a small island civ:

Concentration of force. Normally, the AI is atrocious at this. But when their island is that small, pretty much their entire military can hit your landing force. Which is what happened to me. 3 pikemen weren't NEARLY enough. I also admit to having a grand total of 1 bombard unit. Oopsie.

I was running almost zero military for so long I just never built them. I had 1 barracks town (2 game) that provided spears to cover my cities. Until I completed Zeus, I had no offensive units (unless you count a couple of leftover regular warriors) in the homeland (I poprushed a regular archer offshore, but lost him attacking a spearman in a fit of "damnit, I'm due to WIN a battle!" madness).

-Arrian

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Catt

I decided to leave the Japanese alone for the near term. I figure they'll be so backwards that I can take them at any time,

Sorry Catt, but from what transpired here , the above quote is somewhat instructive, from a learning perspective

[Catt]

Originally posted by Cort Haus

Quote:

Originally posted by Catt I decided to leave the Japanese alone for the near term. I figure they'll be so backwards that I can take them at any time

Sorry Catt, but from what transpired here , the above quote is somewhat instructive, from a learning perspective

It is most definitely instructive -- my attacking force was slaughtered, and would have been completely routed had they not fled to the safety of dromons. Hubris, tragic hubris . I think it was a combination of (1) many years of "war" and (2) AI "large map" build priorities versus my more typical standard map game (lots more units per city on large maps). Backwardness does invite conquest, but it would have taken a heck of a lot more backwardness (on the part of the Japanese) and a heck of a lot more shield investment (on my part) to make it a walk-over .

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Is there such a thing as PP in Conquests? I gave up Peace-Play in C3C after the third attempt.

:nostalgia for the PTW pure builder days:

I know you don't particularly care for the bug that has altered strategic resource distribution in C3C, but I've played perhaps a dozen full epic games in C3C and several of them have been PP games -- I'd submit that my game here in AU 501 qualifies as a PP game in that I never went a'conquering for resources, and I played another game at Demi-God as the Germans and never once went to war (that one was pre-1.15 and I never built an FP either) despite a lack of resources. I think Firaxis recognizes the resource distribution as a bug and will fix it, but I don't think it has unduly prevented peaceful play as is.

Catt

[Aqualung71]

Originally posted by Dominae

Assuming you have Printing Press, that's fine.
Dominae

Strange - I went back to check my 680AD save, and no I didn't have PP by then (I'd actually forgotten which tech was required for communications, so thanks for the reminder).

The funny thing is though, I had still met all 9 AI civs and my Curragh at the top of the world quite clearly hadn't found England, and I'm pretty sure she didn't bump into a British vessel at any time in her travels.

This does not make sense - how could I have met England then? Hmmm, that's what you get for writing your DAR's from memory after the fact. I'm getting old!

I'll attach the save in case you've got time to have look and solve the mystery.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Thriller
The funny thing is though, I had still met all 9 AI civs and my Curragh at the top of the world quite clearly hadn't found England, and I'm pretty sure she didn't bump into a British vessel at any time in her travels.

This does not make sense - how could I have met England then?

Something like this happened to me. England appeared on the F4 long before I found them. I reckon one of their ships saw one of ours on their turn. With the Dutch and the English having a similar orange on my monitor, I wouldn't have noticed.

[Arrian]

800bc:

[Arrian]

360AD:

[Master Zen]

Well, unfortunately I have had almost no time to play this. I have no clue when I can post the next DAR since I won't have much time this weekend either. Anyway, i'll get around to it eventually


Exploration

During this period I obtained contact with every other civilization. The first thing I did was send my first dromon, the HMS Conqueror to explore one of the "sea protuberances" which appeared along the island to my northwest. Taking advantage of the Byzantine's reduced sinking rate (as well as crossing both my hands and toe fingers) my dromon was sent on a mission which was difficult but not impossible, to seek new empires across the sea (plus, knowing Dominae, that sea lane HAD to lead somewhere...)

Eventually (and perhaps miraculously) our dromon arrived at unfamiliar shores in the year 750 BC. Here to greet us were the powerful Mayans. We settled on a trade by which we provided them with Horseback Riding and they gave us Code of Laws plus the nice sum of 123 gold. The Conqueror then sailed west and in 690 BC found the English. No trades were possible at this time unfortunately.

After looping around the British Isle my dromon came upon the rather backwards French. They were also at war with the Mayans and with very little to fight with. However, it seems they managed to hold their own with no substancial territorial loss. By 350 BC the Conqueror reached the Netherlands. Their leader, Willian, was very coridal and an important trade was set up by which we gave them Feudalism in return for The Republic, 20g, and 63gpt.


The Southern Hemisphere

Current policy was to trade trade and trade. In 610 BC, we discovered Currency. It was immediately traded to Russia in exchange for Construction and 186g. Other trades on this very year was Monarchy for Map Making and Literature with Japan. With the Russian trade I made it to the Medieval Age and got Feudalism for free!!! The best thing was that this was in line with my most pressing foreign policy objective of the moment:

WAR (ok, not yet)

Target: Japan. A major buildup began with warriors being upgraded for Swordsmen and later MI's. A lot of pikes were also being built. Key to Byzantine military strength was a strong fleet. Dromons began being built in our shipyards to prepare to transport our mighty army against Japan. The Order of Battle of the Byzantine Emprie was on 350 BC:

10 - Warriors
2 - Archers
2 - Horsemen
7 - Pikemen
11 - Medieval Infantry
8 - Dromons

Priority would be more pikes and a couple of more MI upgrades before the invasion would be launched.

Building

By this time 11 cities had been founded on the home island, a 12th city was set to built shortly. Most cities had been building a mix of improvements and military units. Three of my crappy coastal cities were pure Dromon pumps, with Caesarea used as a military pump mostly. Constantinople, the capital was switched between settler/worker/units.

Perhaps the greatest achievement of the Byzantines during this period was the construction of the Great Lighthouse in Nicaea in 450 BC. This gave our fleet a massive advantage of being able to move 5 turns. Our Dromons, already the most powerful naval unit in the game, coupled with this speed boost, are now the rulers of the seas.

[Aeson]

After the debacle that my first Japanese invasion turned out to be, I made peace with the Japanese. I started focusing on claiming the two NW islands, which I had successfully blocked off from all the other civs so far. My Dromon blockades only required 4 ships to keep everyone to the East from meeting the Japanese or getting to those islands.

After quickly pumping out about 10 Settlers, I started thinking about hitting Japan again. I got Feudalism as my free tech, and then researched Republic. Sumeria had also gotten Feudalism as their free tech.

I had sent a Curagh to try and cross at the NW sea, but it had sunk on the second turn. It was able to spot the Mayan borders though. A second and third attempt to cross with Dromons both failed, and so I gave up on that.

The Russians had demanded something from me earlier on, about the same time as my first war with the Japanese. I had refused (they didn't even have Map Making at the time) and signed Egypt up as my ally. I figured I'd make peace with the Russians just as soon as I saw any of their boats, but they never came. The Russians took out the Egyptians after about 40 turns, but are far behind in the tech race now. All this time with free negative war weariness is great too.

I built my fleet up to 11 Dromons, and my army with enough Pikes and Med Inf to filll them. Took along a couple Archers for the 0 range bombard too. So I landed 22 units on a free Mountain just south of the Japanese river. Hoped this was enough to at least hold the Mountain. My initial target was going to be Kyoto, if I could break through their masses of troops. On the turn I landed, the Japanese hit my stack with about 25 units, mostly Archers. They had 8 Ancient Cavalry, and those killed off 2 of my Pikes, but only 3 of their AC survived. The Archers only killed 1 Pike, but my entire stack was very low on HP's, and the Japanese had at least 20 more Archers that had moved into position to attack the next turn.

So I loaded everything back up on the boats, and took my units back home.

[Aeson]

After two turns, all my units were healed up, and I loaded them (along with some reinforcements) back onto the Dromons. Landed at the same place as before.

This time, without most of their AC, my stack held up much better. Just a few attacks in, one of my Pikes killed 2 Archers without losing any HP's. Then the Japanese just stopped attacking altogether. They had around 20 Archers nearby, but I guess they view 6 defense and 5 HP's as impossible.

Knowing this, I left a small force there to keep the Japanese attention, and then loaded up the rest to sail around to the other side of the island and assault Osaka. My units left behind were going to try to draw all the Japanese units to the S of the river, giving me at least one turn to hit Osaka before it could be counterattacked.