AU501 - DAR3: Contact with all other civs - Page 4

Aeson · February 12, 2004, 12:42

I hadn't brought along many of my Med Inf, but with 12 Dromons able to bombard, and a Trebuchet, I was hoping the 6 MI and 2 LB I had would be enough to take Osaka. The Southern force had done it's job, and the Japanese forces were almost entirely South of the river when I landed.

My Dromons bombarded, and the Japanese had a Galley in the city. This triggered my GA. After the Galley was sunk, I was able to get the 5 Spears left down to 1 or 2 HP each, and another Archer down to 1 HP. In the assault I lost only 1 Med Inf, and was able to kill 1 of the 1 HP Spears and the 1 HP Archer with Elite Pikemen. Wanted as many shots at leaders as I could get, as War Weariness was getting too much (up to 40% Luxury rate, with 3 Luxuries), and taking a single city was all I could hope for.

The diversion to the S was enough so that I could get everyone into Osaka before the main counterattack arrived. I used my Dromons as artillery, and tried to keep the roaded Ivory intact. A great Leader showed up, and I made an army of Med Inf with it. Two turns later another Leader, which rushed the FP in Osaka. Then I made peace (was going to have to push the Luxury rate to 50%).

I didn't keep track, but I think I must have killed 60 Archers and 10 Spearmen. Just to take one city. The Japanese still had 30 units next to Osaka, about 50:50 Spears to Archers. That's a lot of units to support with all of 5 cities, one of which they no longer had!

Aeson · February 12, 2004, 12:59

By this time I had made contact with everyone (or rather, the Mayans had sold my contact to everyone). I was at least 8 techs behind, but was the leader in the 'old world', even with Sumeria.

I had just finished researching Invention, and so bought Gunpowder from the French for 4 contacts, 342 gold, and 3 gpt. Then I bought Chemistry from the Dutch for 4 contacts, 110 gold, and 82 gpt. France didn't have Chemistry yet, which is why I 'sold my soul' for it. Trading Chemistry to France got me Theology and 272 gold. Theology and Gunpowder (haha, no Saltpeter anywhere near...thanks!) to Sumeria for Chivalry. I started research on Metallurgy, hoping to beat France to it. They still had Education, Music Theory, and Printing Press at least.

Sumeria really helped out by somehow aquiring Printing Press and Education in the same turn. They had no money and everyone on the new world had both, so I wonder how they got them? Anyways, I traded Chemistry for Education.

Still at 'war' with Russia, and they are pretty far behind in tech. They do have Saltpeter though, so eventually I think I will make peace and trade for one of their sources. In the meantime, the negative war weariness is too good to pass up.

The Mayans have grabbed just about every wonder, and I'm still at least 4 techs behind (PP, Astronomy, Banking, Economics), and probably more than that (Military Tradition, Democracy, Physics). I'm reasonably sure that I can't be anymore than 7 techs behind the leader, as Shakespeare, Magellan, and Newton's have yet to be started by anyone.

I have the most population of anyone, tied with Russia for 12% of the world population. Russia is the leader in land area too. Thankfully they are rather far behind, and should be easy targets (well, as easy as C3C Deity civs get) around the time of Infantry and Tanks. If I can get Saltpeter, the Sumerians and Hittites will be easy pickings in not too long as well. Just have to hit Sumeria before they can get to Nationalism. The Hittites are very backwards and only have one tech (that I gave to them) in the Middle Ages.

Dominae · February 12, 2004, 15:02

Very cool of you to keep going after that Volcano fiasco. I like to think I would have done the same, but giving up would probably have won me over.

Let's see you win it!

Dominae

ducki · February 12, 2004, 15:10

The sheer determination to keep "digging" that I see from the 'poly veterans here never ceases to amaze and impress me.

I'd like to think I'd keep digging too, and in a public game like this, I might, but I think my will might be broken and my play would become wreckless, looking for a KAI to put me out of my misery. This is so close to accidentally pressing 'E' instead of 'R' for a worker that I'd be tempted to reload and fix the fumble, as well.

Kudos to everyone that rolls with the punches and especially to Aeson in this case.

Aeson · February 12, 2004, 15:24

I have to keep playing... if only to nuke the Volcano over and over again...

Dominae · February 12, 2004, 15:48

Does a nuked Volcano turn into a Moutain, then Hills, then Plains?

vmxa1 · February 12, 2004, 17:08

Do we have another so very cold in the works?

Dominae · February 12, 2004, 17:26

Not really...

Aeson · February 12, 2004, 18:28

So very warm (of the Volcano)

This isn't a very hard map though. Nicely designed for the AI to stay competitive, and there are some difficult timeframes, but nothing terribly worrying. C3C Deity is more difficult in general than Civ/PtW Deity, but with such a nice starting location you have quite a bit of leeway on this map.

Theseus · February 16, 2004, 19:24

I was hit with the Black Death in 650 BC in Dyrrachium, which later spread Chalcedon... not quite sure how that happened, as no units entered or left Dyracchium. Just road connections are dangerous then?

Theseus · February 16, 2004, 19:26

I completed the Hanging Gardens in 610 BC. There was shortly a wave of GWs, with Artemis, Mausoleum (Kyoto, thank you very much!), and Great Library being built that turn and the next. The GLib would be a life-saver for Russia, who later turned out quite well.

Subsequent to a revolution and the beginning of Monarchy, I was at this point furiously building an attack force for Japan, using the new forces as MPs to facilitate max research in the interim. I landed my attack force on the mountain at Satsuma1 in 250 BC, consisting of 12 Horse and 4 Spear, delivered by... 12 Dromon. Time to go to TOWN on Toku's *ss! Dromon bombard just rocks... this is a unit to be dreaded.

After the first bombards, I peeled off 4 Dromon to go exploring. The next turn a Japanese Curraugh attacks the stack, triggering my GA.

Overall, however, my initial attack on Japan was a lot more of a slog than I expected, even with Dromons to soften them up and only facing Archers and Spears. I burned up a chunk of my GA building extra forces for the attack. I decided to make lemons out of lemonnade (ice cream out of wasabi?

), and go GL hunting. This worked pretty well, with my first MGL generated in Osaka in 30 AD, and another in 230 AD, both turned into an Armies (I would hold them for Knights, however). This will of course mean no Arrian Deception, so I have to play nice and by the rules.

Also, luckily, planning now for a slow war in Japan, I decided to beeline for Gunpowder, and, ahem, started realizing the deviltry and brilliance of the game design.

While that was going on, I used my GA primarily as a builder, getting Temples, Markets, Libraries, Harbors, and Aqueducts built all over, but in between some additional Horse, Spears/Pikes, and Trebuchet to support the war in Japan. Also, with Constantinople producing 25spt, I make a run for Leonardo's... I usually avoid GWs in my capitol like the plague, but with some many soon to be available I'll take the chance.

Somewhere along here, I snag the goody hut to the south of the Hittites, and got something decent, but don;t remember what.

I finally meet Russia in 170 AD. Cathy didn't know JACK-ALL, but the GLib put her back in the game. I'm ahead of everybody by at least Gunpowder, and the only AI civ with any tech I don't have is Sumeria with Monotheism. Everyone (except Toku) is polite. I can't see any SP nearby, but I assume either Sumeria or the Hittites have it, so one of the two will be my next victim.

I rank #1 in most of the stats, except land where I am 9.

Status:
16 towns with 87 pop
1 Settler (waiting for a Worker to clear the northern tip of the home continent)
11 Workers
12 Warriors
3 Spears
2 Pikes
2 Trebuchet
8 Horse
13 Dromon
1 Army

Master Zen · February 16, 2004, 21:13

and I thought my 12 cities on the home continent was a lot...

MrWhereItsAt · February 17, 2004, 04:27

What a pillock - I just realised I have contact with the Hittites - when the hell did that happen? Oh, that culture border my Curragh sank trying to reach, the one I thought was just Sumeria? That's them. Bloody helll....

I then go and generally tidy things up - add 10% lux so I convert that Entertainer into a useful worker, rejig some tiles so I am actually getting shiels where they are needed for military units and attempt to squeeze a few more trade out - what an idiot I was being! Am most ashamed of my first 2 DAR playtimes....

825BC A Second Dromon is completed - I reckon 2 Horses and 2 Swords will be enough to take a Japanese city, and then they will be enough to ferry reinforcements across the little channel. France builds the Temple of Artemis.

775BC My Curragh is lost in its suicide mission SE of my lands. But my Dromons are now ready, and land their 2 Swords and 2 Horses on the Ivory next to Osaka.

750BC A Japanese Warrior out of Osaka hurts my first Sword down to 1hp. When I finally get my turn I kill another warrior approaching to reinforce the city, then take the city itself on with my non-damaged Sword. Their Spear loses... but there is a second! My second Horse loses, but 4 more have just arrived, ready for next turn. Wishing I'd thought of this before, my Dromons bombard the city. The first one unexpectedly hurts not the Spear, but a Curragh I did not see before. The second, instead of hurting the Spear (which is less wounded than the Curragh), KILLS the Curragh and triggers my sodding GA!!!! That's it. I can't stand an unintentional GA, and after all the crap I have put myself through so far I decide this game is toast. Time to start a new game, and once I have cooled down a bit I will have another go at AU501.

Aqualung71 · February 17, 2004, 09:16

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen
and I thought my 12 cities on the home continent was a lot...

I thought your 12 cities was a lot too....I had 9 for most of the game

Master Zen · February 17, 2004, 13:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Thriller

I thought your 12 cities was a lot too....I had 9 for most of the game

hey, I like tight spacing but Theseus apparently prefers the cities-groping-each-other feel

Theseus · February 17, 2004, 20:49

And there was still one to go at this point!

I remember regretting, btw, not having placed Varna at 7 of where it is, thus being able to add another city at what is currently Varna6, and also not having built a town at Nicaea77. That would have brought the max to 17!!

I later abandoned Sep-whatever at Naissus36.

This is the type of configuration I'll use when I expect to warmonger quite a bit... interestingly, I ended up having a fairly limited military until the very end, and playing pretty builder-ish, which this is NOT optimized for.

Lotta fun though!

SirOsis · February 19, 2004, 17:15

Finally met all civs in 370BC. Currently am at war with the Hittites. Nothing major just destroying his galleys with my Dromons. Japan has expanded onto another island. The Mayans are at war with the French, the Russians at war with Egypt. Russia and Egypt are destroying themselves and the Mayans are dominating the French. Chichen Itza is wonderful as it has the Pyramids and the Temple of Artemis.

My plans are to develop my navy, fill out my island and strike out for other lands. Not sure about picking a war just yet.

AU501 370BC Map of the World (1.4Mb)

SirOsis · February 20, 2004, 18:24

Sumeria just finished the Statue of Zeus 1 turn before I was done.

Very frustrating. Hopefully I will get the Great Library.

Aqualung71 · February 21, 2004, 22:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Master Zen

hey, I like tight spacing but Theseus apparently prefers the cities-groping-each-other feel

This is one of my major lessons from this game. Implementing it is much harder, since it's a complete change of philosophy.

ducki · February 22, 2004, 23:49

I've finally gotten to the point that I can drop a town down just 2 tiles away from another - City-Tile-City - without having an aneurism. It still tweaks the "perfectionist" in me, but I've finally learned that some things are more important than a pretty layout and wide open spaces. If there's enough "good" tiles around, I can often get 3-5 cities where I used to only want 2.

Still, Theseus takes the cake this time around. I think he was really just compensating for not having enough workers, so he put made fewer tiles available for improvements -

Theseus · February 23, 2004, 21:11

I hadn't thought of it that way, but true!

I've never really written it up, but this has for a long time been my "CP Strategy for Small Home Continents."

It's supposed to be an militari-economic play... shields in the middle and commerce on the edges... with many towns and mucho gold coming in from the sea, short-rush a b*ttload of units EVERY OTHER TURN (or damn close) and romp all over AI civs anywhere with in reach.

Of course, idiot that I am, that's not at all what I did.

But, as I played it out, if you get up towards the Modern Era and build out all those cramped-in coastal cities, you can have yourself a heckuva machine anyway.

Dominae · February 23, 2004, 22:43

Quote:

Originally posted by ducki
I think he was really just compensating for not having enough workers, so he put made fewer tiles available for improvements.

You're describing one of the cornerstones of ICS: the city center tile provides average output regardless of underlying terrain, and is always worked "for free" (does not require a pop point or Laborer).

Dominae

ducki · February 24, 2004, 00:09

Quote:

build out all those cramped-in coastal cities,

This is so much more true with Commerical Docks and Offshore platforms. Of course, by that point in the game...

DrSpike · February 25, 2004, 16:58

Link to DAR2:

http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...20#post2754320

My 3 curraghs had been scuttling about for some time. 1 in the East died to a barb galley after valiantly holding off his companion, but the other 2 decided to go on an adventure, setting off due North from the Sumerian landmass and the 2nd island to West. They found the English, French and Maya (and gifted all tech), and soon the Dutch in 1100, making this DAR official 2 turns long.

However there is more!

In 1075 we got currency. Egypt had Polytheism, and Sumeria had been quiet for a while despite their earlier quick pace. I went for Horseback Riding and hoped to trade for construction. Horseback Riding came in 3 turns since Japan got it at the last minute, and Sumeria came up trumps, so we traded currency for everything we needed. We entered the Middle Ages in 1000BC, and got Monotheism. We gifted everything to all civs, and started Theology at 28 turns.

In 950 the invasion fleet was ready, though a pesky barb took out a Dromon that was stacked with another! This slowed down the transfer, but the army is on its way in 950.

12 workers
11 warriors
4 archers
5 spearmen
9 swordsmen
3 Dromon (1 in the South to colonise the island to the East)
2 Curragh

Theseus · February 26, 2004, 01:13

You went after Sumeria first??

Your thinking?

DrSpike · February 26, 2004, 07:42

Well I was going for an early win from quite early on in the game. Looking at the landmasses Japan's was I felt too small, and Hittites had the same luxury as we did. I did not want to wage more than one war since I felt that the net payoff for an early victory would be negative.

In retrospect Japan would have been a reasonable alternative target, since I could have hit them slightly earlier, with no fear of GA. Then I could also have had the small island totally to myself.

Also I thought (incorrectly as it turned out) that the OCN would be that for a large map. If I had realised it was actually for a standard map I may have gone for Japan instead.

But overall I think the Sumerian landmass is nice once improved, and an entirely reasonable first (and only) target.

ducki · February 26, 2004, 12:38

I still wish I had been able to hit Sumeria first. They just turned out to be one of my best trading partners for ages and I got addicted to the income.

But theirs was the land I really wanted to invade all along.

conmcb25 · February 26, 2004, 16:13

Well a short report

Japanese war went from 370BC to 260 BC and eventually I took over the whole island.

In 220 AD the Hittites demanded gold and I said no and they declared war, I took over the closest Coastal city but it culture flipped, I got peace for 33 Gold and 4GPT. That war ended in 430 AD (I didn't really attack them until several turns after the japanese war ended.)

In 650AD I finally met Egypt and Russia off on there island in the east.

Dromons ROCK! They are better than cats if your targets are mostly coastal of course and usually win against regular ships.

That group of early curraghs really helped out, I have most of the map discovered.

I had a Golden Age during the war with Greece, not the best timing but it sure helped end that war quickly.

Now do I try and remove the Hittites and Sumarians and move there? Or build he FP on the old japanese homeland and go super builder?

Thats for the next AAR.

Notice I left the japanese one city on the island to the north of there old homeland.

I do have to eventually get that Sumer city off my main continent