boy, 15, rapes his mother - Page 4

DinoDoc · January 26, 2004, 00:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
That would be cruel and unusual punishment.

Not really. IIRC, It's actually used in several states as a condition for the parole of people convicted of sex crimes.

Dis · January 26, 2004, 00:43

I support chemical castration for repeated sex offenders...

TCO · January 26, 2004, 00:56

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramo

Was responding to GP's idea that if he's going to change, it wasn't going to be from an attempt at rehabilition.

You are misrepresenting my point. I did not say that. I said rehab attempts had poor results. Perhaps, because people don't change much. You are jumping further down the track.

I mostly just want to punish the ****er.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 00:58

"But I do think that there is a chance, he will change his ways. Won't have anything to do with reform or rehabilitation or interventions."

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 01:02

And why exactly do you say that rehabilitation must have poor results? Particularly for a 15 year old kid?

Quote:

Perhaps, because people don't change much.

I think I've changed a lot in the 4 years since I was 15.

Quote:

I mostly just want to punish the ****er.

Because you genuinely believe that putting the kid through a lot of **** for the rest of his life will genuinely make society better off, or out of revenge for his acts?

Urban Ranger · January 26, 2004, 01:17

Quote:

Originally posted by TCO
rehabilitation is a miserable failure. Ask your texas counsel, lefty.

That does not mean rehab doesn't work, it's just the way them Texans do it doesn't.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 01:18

Right.

DinoDoc · January 26, 2004, 01:23

Quote:

Originally posted by Urban Ranger

That does not mean rehab doesn't work, it's just the way them Texans do it doesn't.

We could shoot him and charge the family for the bullet as the Chinese government does.

TCO · January 26, 2004, 01:24

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramo
And why exactly do you say that rehabilitation must have poor results? Particularly for a 15 year old kid?

I think I've changed a lot in the 4 years since I was 15.

Because you genuinely believe that putting the kid through a lot of **** for the rest of his life will genuinely make society better off, or out of revenge for his acts?

not to change him, but to punish him. If he decides to change fine. But for now, he earned a punishment.

Imran Siddiqui · January 26, 2004, 01:24

Quote:

We could shoot him and charge the family for the bullet as the Chinese government does.

Shi Huangdi · January 26, 2004, 02:50

Quote:

Originally posted by Tiamat
As opposed to raping your mother

Yeah ok.....

What he did was bad. That doesn't nessecitate trying to do something cruel to him.

Dis · January 26, 2004, 02:52

I still have yet to see proof of this. I still think it's some perverted publicity stunt.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 04:41

Quote:

not to change him, but to punish him. If he decides to change fine. But for now, he earned a punishment.

Is there any particular methodology to your desire to punish, or is it just a base, retributive urge?

Kull · January 26, 2004, 04:41

I can just see this conversation when he gets back to juvie hall:

Inmate: "You motherf**cker!"
Kid: "Yes....and your point is?"

TCO · January 26, 2004, 08:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Ramo

Is there any particular methodology to your desire to punish, or is it just a base, retributive urge?

"methodology" is not the right term here. Also, you continue to try to put in loaded emotional terms. I let you get away with it before with "revenge".

DinoDoc · January 26, 2004, 08:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
What he did was bad. That doesn't nessecitate trying to do something cruel to him.

How would it be cruel?

TCO · January 26, 2004, 08:49

IOW, yes.

TCO · January 26, 2004, 08:52

By the way, can I ask questions like,

"Are you satisfied with all the damage that your soft on crime attitide does? Are you happy that criminals (including the m-f that car-jacked me) get that trickle-down message that they are oppressed by society?"

You and I can probably have some useful discussion about whether it is moral to steal a loaf of bread for a starving baby. For a simple-minded criminal (and there are lots of them) and "eye for an eye" is a better ethic to promulgate.

Kuciwalker · January 26, 2004, 12:34

Quote:

Originally posted by Kull
I can just see this conversation when he gets back to juvie hall:

Inmate: "You motherf**cker!"
Kid: "Yes....and your point is?"

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 13:25

Quote:

"methodology" is not the right term here. Also, you continue to try to put in loaded emotional terms. I let you get away with it before with "revenge".

Just trying to get a rational justification for a presumably harsh punishment from you ("he deserves it" ain't good enough).

Quote:

You and I can probably have some useful discussion about whether it is moral to steal a loaf of bread for a starving baby. For a simple-minded criminal (and there are lots of them) and "eye for an eye" is a better ethic to promulgate.

Do you honestly think that this kid was thinking deeply about legal consequences before raping his mother? Most violent crime is spontaneous, and if the perps are thinking about legal consequences, they don't think they're going to get caught. An eye for an eye only leaves criminals even more dangerous when leave prison with the system seen as naturally vindictive (it always has interested me that if a man kills another man out of revenge he's killed by the state, while if the state kills a man out of revenge, it's to be praised).

Imran Siddiqui · January 26, 2004, 13:31

Quote:

Is there any particular methodology to your desire to punish, or is it just a base, retributive urge?

Well of course, it's a moral view of punishments (dammit, forget the technical term... Crim Law book is at home). You earn punishments by breaking the law because you commit a moral wrong and thus have to pay it back. Something like that.

And yes, it IS good enough to say 'he deserves it'.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 13:39

That's like saying revenge is fundamentally moral. That's an odd position to take.

Imran Siddiqui · January 26, 2004, 14:15

Quote:

That's like saying revenge is fundamentally moral. That's an odd position to take.

Why? I don't see why revenge is immoral in way, shape, or form.

curtsibling · January 26, 2004, 14:20

There is only one answer to dealing with a rapist/monster.

Dr Curt prescribes a few lead injections from this.

MrFun · January 26, 2004, 14:21

I oppose the death penalty -- even in this case.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 14:26

Quote:

Why? I don't see why revenge is immoral in way, shape, or form.

I see it as immoral because the use of revenge in social interactions decreases net freedom. Extreme violence isn't going to stop with more extreme violence. An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, and all that spiel.

Imran Siddiqui · January 26, 2004, 14:32

Quote:

I see it as immoral because the use of revenge in social interactions decreases net freedom.

So? So do social security security programs, but you won't find many saying those are immoral.

GePap · January 26, 2004, 14:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

We could shoot him and charge the family for the bullet as the Chinese government does.

Wait, you mean charge the victim? (remember who he raped...)

Wow Imran, so much compassion for this woman.

GePap · January 26, 2004, 14:37

And while we are on the theme of the victim..maybe this womna does not want her son killed:

sorry mam, he raped you, we think he is hopeless, so we will kill your son. Have a nice day.

Ramo · January 26, 2004, 14:40

Quote:

So? So do social security security programs, but you won't find many saying those are immoral.

They usually don't. If old people have no pensions, and have to live off the streets, have to starve, they're not in the least free. Young people generally won't become homeless and starve because of payroll taxes. So, SS is a net increase in freedom.