Anti-intellectualism

[Monk]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp I used to get beaten up at school regularly, but as it was for wearing make-up I don't think it has much bearing on this discussion.

You were a devoted fan of The Cure!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
lol OMFG PWNDD!!!11!!!!1

You are about to enter...
The Ignore zone

[Drake Tungsten]

You were a devoted fan of The Cure!

That, or a budding transvestite.

[Atahualpa]

You're right. I'm "assuming," based on experience, that the "intellectual" is going to get flak for being an arrogant twit -- that the intellectual is not as socially able as the rugby player, because the rugby player doesn't act like a condescending blowhard when he answers questions in class. Your "in the same manner" qualifier implies that you're asking questions in the same manner as a rugby player -- so, try being a rugby player for awhile, ask questions in the same manner, and report back on the results.

I thinks thats because the rugby player will answer on the same intelligence level as the questioner. Or at least answer on a common ground, whereas the intellectual would have to step down, because most probably the crowd doesnt want to step up. And when he doesnt want to step down, he is considered a smart ass.
But I think thats just to hide that for yourself you are a lazy ass ;-)
In General there is this fear that you get into a situation with lots of people and it proves you are a dumbass. Talking with an intellectual this situation would be much more likely, maybe a reason for more tense situations and hostilities.

Also I believe that clever people are considered to be dangerous and as such there would be natural resentments. Because obviously physical power is much better to weigh. Or at least you believe you can weigh it better. Besides there is pretty good protection from law against physical attacks. However there is only weak or no protection if you were out-witted!
In the intellectual world the strength of a person is hidden very well if you dont know him real good.

I think thats one reason why people are more suspicioius to intellectuals.

Another reason is that because you can hide your intellectual strengths you can also bluff or fake.

[BeBro]

Originally posted by Guynemer


Anti-intellectual bastard!


HATE CRIME!!!

INTELLECTUAL!!!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Intellectuals also seem to ignore human emotions and feelings with their pursuit for absolute rationality. Well guess what, we aren't rational creatures.

What say you to folk (like me) with both exceptional IQ and EQ?
I'm friends with the Professors, even the arrogant ones. I'm also quite a fan of the insightful and thoughtful people at my college.
...Yes I do get along well with folk who I do not have a long-term goal of killing, TYVM. Just that that group does not happen to include the majority of our species.

Just because it is difficult to express why people take a particular position (ie, provide a "logical" sequence or whatever) does not mean their position is any less valid.

No, but nor does it validate our agreement with their position.
Whether their position is 'valid' or not (who validates life goals anyway?), we can still 'validate' our opposition to it.
Not that I believe my goal of destroying the Smacktard cycle is inherently 'good', but that I judge it to be the thing to do, to support the things I like.
My likes, values, beliefs and feelings are subjective and I don't think they're 100% Correct (Something subjective isn't even on a Right-Wrong slider), but I use them as bases for stuff I do.

Funny how you can never escape at least -some- form of presumption...

Why do I lift weights..because I like the feeling it gives. Why do I dislike ***s..because I dislike being around them and what they say.
You could argue that it's the intellectuals who are just not in touch with their feelings and that.

Some are, some aren't. Though chances are we have different feelings to your ilk.
BTW I don't like this big grouping of folk into an 'intellectuals' box... I reckon that there are different types!
(No I am not going to supply other boxes for you to put them in. Try to be boxless.)

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
That sounds familiar!! All that relativism means however is that we cannot impose one view upon another. However, we can attack the strength of the logic used to back it up.

We are never 'told' the truth or 'proven' false.
We are the masters of what be believe, and in many ways, how we react.
It is only us that can change what we believe, and it is we that are the cause of what we feel - not anyone else.
We can always give each-other incentives to act or believe a certain way, of course, but the decision lands back with the person.

***s?? What are ***s?

I think they're the ****** that **** with the *********** of the *******, if you get what I mean.

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
"You are not going to get very far in this debate"

This isn't a debate. You came here with a problem, and people are trying to give suggestions as to what is wrong.

The world is what we make it out to be.
I'm basically here to post my opinion.

Perhaps an obession about being right and debating is part of the problem?

It's entirely possible that a skew towards this side of the spectrum is a problem... but there are different problems for A-type AND C-type personalities. Even mediation and moderation leaves something behind.
Problem at hand? Anti-Intellectualism.
A-type solution: Use them smarts to run your enemies into the ground!
B-type solution: They can keep their ways to themselves while your brilliance nets you a good job and a fine life.
C-type solution: Change yourself so that you fit in with the Anti-intellectuals, and it's no longer a problem.

Problems beg Solutions, but there are lots of ways to solve a problem, and each solution entails problems of its own.

Read over your posts in this thread. It shouldn't be too hard to see why you provoke hostility in people.

Well I'm not provoked and I can't see where the problem lies.
...
Am I an arrogant intellectual bastard too?

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
A debate is not an example of penis envy.

It is for some people. (Looks at some unnamed OT posters)

Yet most people are seemingly able to read and be logical with my posts, and get involved in a good constructive, non hostile debate.

This, unfortunately, is because we are so much smarter, more accepting, and better at understanding than the people off the 'Poly website.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by reds4ever
Don't bite my head off lads, but in apportioning the blame, maybe youre confusing 'intellectualism' for 'poor people skills' or varying combinations of the two? Just a thought, I'm back off to play Dominoes on Yahoo! ;O)

I've been through this one. There is nothing wrong with my social skills - yes, I am pretty outgoing but that is about the only thing that I can be accused of. Novartis tried to blame my social skills for them getting rid of me, but how come no one ever had a problem coming to me when they needed help, or in any other place I have ever worked I have always been very popular...

[Provost Harrison]

...of course, apart from a vocal few who seem to go out of their way to make my life difficult.

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova

Then I replaced you.
There is only one word capable of harnessing the power of this instance.
You, sir, have been

0WN3D

Who cares? He's just a camp, stuck up, introverted, psuedo intellectual anyway, fvck him!!!!!

just kidding Whaleboy

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Ramo
Who doesn't use their intellect for recreation or career?

Recreation: My Frat house enemies
Career: George W. Bush

[reds4ever]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
...of course, apart from a vocal few who seem to go out of their way to make my life difficult.

fvck them as well then!!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by reds4ever


fvck them as well then!!

Oh believe me I do But it is when they get in my way - deliberately try and **** things up...

[Whaleboy]

But the most useless intellectuals are also the ones who are the quickest to proclaim their status as 'intellectual'. Postmodernists, other theorists, cultural commentators, 'contemporary' artists, critics, students etc.

Its a commonly known fact that useless intellectuals get more sex.

I suppose I'm an intellectual, but I've never thought of myself as one, and I possess a great admiration for those who have actually gone and done something worthwhile. I'm always ready to give people praise for training to be a nurse, for example. So much more useful than what I do.

The notion of "use" is a difficult one. Let me put it this way. Imagine civilisation to be a car. Most people work in the engine, where they are perceived useful. You get some people who are the drivers (the policians, big business, pressure groups, pragmatic intellectuals (I think you are saying etc). Then you get the headlights .

Oh they didn't - i got to Uni, two degress and consumed vast quantities of booze. I didn't do it the way you suggested though. I changed my behaviour and became 'one of the boys'. Perhaps your insistence on sticking two metaphorical fingers up at your class mates is part of the reason you get a tough time ?

Fair enough, but some people are the kind of students that don't learn well in a normal class, i.e., spoon fed. Not so much now, but especially when I was a kid, I learned through questioning and educating myself. That didn't endear me to any of my classmates, and I was not coming across as arrogant.

Oh they didn't - i got to Uni, two degress and consumed vast quantities of booze. I didn't do it the way you suggested though. I changed my behaviour and became 'one of the boys'. Perhaps your insistence on sticking two metaphorical fingers up at your class mates is part of the reason you get a tough time ?

In interesting idea, I can't say it really crossed my mind before. However, see above point.

Enigma_Nova, sorry but to me you sound intolerant and arrogant but then i'm just a miserbale old git faced with doing the housework

Why are people so quick to cry "INTOLERANCE!". Heavens, its PC gone absolutely mad!

I have no problem with anyone calling themself "intelligent". However I'd probably avoid anyone calling themself "intellectual", due to bitter experience. Every person I've met who calls themself "intellectual" has turned out to have a crap personality.

For me, its the other way around. Intellectual is merely highlighting one of your talents, like someone saying "I'm good at sports". I see no difference when someone says "I'm good at philosophy" (ergo, he is intellectual). When you say you are intelligent or talented, THEN you are implying that you are superior.

I used to get beaten up at school regularly, but as it was for wearing make-up I don't think it has much bearing on this discussion.

It's entirely possible, but I reckon people should be able to express their beliefs, and so battle for that.
Conformism is the coward's way out of the conflict!

Then I replaced you.
There is only one word capable of harnessing the power of this instance.
You, sir, have been

0WN3D

Gentlemen please, no fighting over my sig space . I love you both!

Loinburger:

based on experience

Which seems to contradict others

being an arrogant twit...condescending blowhard

Case in point... LOINBURGER!!! . You're demonstrating what I'm trying to show.

so, try being a rugby player for awhile, ask questions in the same manner, and report back on the results.

There are not different languages in class for those that spending their lunch times reading, and those that spend them rolling around in the mud with their heads between another mans buttocks!!

Who bloody cares which one gets the higher "competency number"? That's no different than saying "Everybody is equally athletic, because you cannot objectively measure whether an olympic-class sprinter is faster than an olympic-class marathon runner!" Obviously both the chemist and physicist are intelligent, and obviously both the sprinter and the distance runner are athletic. We don't need a more fine-grained definition of intelligence/competence/athleticism/whatever, so the fact that our current definitions are coarse-grained in no way proves that our current definitions are meaningless.

We are left to conclude that everyone is equally talented, though in different ways, until proven otherwise. And relativism dictates that in the absence of any subjective measure of judgment, we are all equally valid, or talented.

It is for some people. (Looks at some unnamed OT posters)

So true

Who cares? He's just a camp, stuck up, introverted, psuedo intellectual anyway, fvck him!!!!!

Thats going on my sig!!

[Drake Tungsten]

This thread brings up a very important question, namely, why do I spend so much time on a forum that is jam-packed with insufferable *****?

Gonna have to think about that one...

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by loinburger
that the intellectual is not as socially able as the rugby player,

I smile meekly, due to the low emotional aptitude of some of the meatbags I know.

And when that "aspect of our being" becomes relevant, then our definition of competence changes.

It may already BE relevant, but not catalogued.
We may have missed something...

Who bloody cares which one gets the higher "competency number"? That's no different than saying "Everybody is equally athletic, because you cannot objectively measure whether an olympic-class sprinter is faster than an olympic-class marathon runner!"

I didn't make that claim did I?
I made the claim that one cannot compare the value of two different disciplines, not assess whether a person is competant in any one discipline or not.

We don't need a more fine-grained definition of intelligence/competence/athleticism/whatever, so the fact that our current definitions are coarse-grained in no way proves that our current definitions are meaningless.

Nor did I say that they were meaningless; I said that they were not absolute.


Who is more athletic -- the olympic-class sprinter, or the olympic-class weightlifter? Does the fact that you cannot objectively discriminate between them prove that I'm just as athletic as either one? [/QUOTE]

[Provost Harrison]

Whaleboy is right. People do utilise me and I like being utilised - when people have a problem they know I can fix they ask me over and there will be no boasting about it. But the same works the other way around when I ask people about something. I do pride myself on self sufficiency and learning quickly, something my manager at Novartis couldn't get her head around. I didn't have to ask again. I didn't need to be told something twice. They thought I was distancing myself by never asking for advice...fact was, technically, the job was so straightforward I didn't need to.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Enigma_Nova
Am I an arrogant intellectual bastard too?

Not only yes, but hell yes.

[Provost Harrison]

I can be brash, I admit, but that is just part of my outward persona. I am also sensitive, caring and generous and invariably have a completely different perspective on life and matters. My failing is pessimism. I don't like the knockbacks I get. I get back up again, but it hurts and I have to find my confidence and feet again.

[curtsibling]

Most people are wrapped in their own little pointless lives.

Someone outside that loop is considered dangerous, heretical.

Most sheeple are happy to be ignorant.

[Whaleboy]

Curt and PH:

Curt, I'd make your sig text normal size, I got killed by Ming for having mine big.

[Provost Harrison]

curtsibling hits a nail on the head there...this is definitely the impression when you don't follow the herd. Reality is, it would be nice at times to have a pointless life to wrap myself in...

[Whaleboy]

Thats why the big guy upstairs gave us imaginations

[curtsibling]

LOL!
Big guy upstairs?

Rejecting such thinking is the first step to leaving that loop.

Taking control of your own life is vital to survival.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by Whaleboy Curt, I'd make your sig text normal size, I got killed by Ming for having mine big.

Thanks for the heads-up, dude!

[Enigma_Nova]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
The notion of "use" is a difficult one. Let me put it this way. Imagine civilisation to be a car.

If Civilization were a car:
It would run like a Chevy.
Then they produce Civilization: II
Which runs like a Chevy, but has tail fins.

Why are people so quick to cry "INTOLERANCE!". Heavens, its PC gone absolutely mad!

The act of convicting yourself because other people are incapable of coping with the stuff your brain produces?
It's backwards! We should imprison people for being offended, not for offending!
Damn, people! Weed out the weakest of our species...

Gentlemen please, no fighting over my sig space . I love you both!

But you love ME more, right?
I love you, too. Now, let's wait for more prejudice from folk that think interhuman compassion is a sign of being a 'poofter'...

We are left to conclude that everyone is equally talented, though in different ways, until proven otherwise. And relativism dictates that in the absence of any subjective measure of judgment, we are all equally valid, or talented.

Occam's razor in this instance dictates that we do away with any notion of absolute value and forget the conclusion altogether.
I'm good at Physics and Vengeance, but lousy at Law and Manipulation. Screw putting a value on any area - just sign me up for a job as a scientist and keep me away from those slimy spin doctors!

So true

You concede the point?
iM wInNeR1!1 my penis must therefore be larger than yours!

Thats going on my sig!!

Look - now he's booted some innocent poster out of his sig space.
YOU stopped the flow of love, reds4ever!

[Whaleboy]

Rejecting such thinking is the first step to leaving that loop.

Damn... to think I was only talking about a placenta .

Taking control of your own life is vital to survival.

Socrates

Thanks for the heads-up, dude!

No probs! I'd get rid of bold to, to be on the safe side but I think they'll tolerate .

[Drake Tungsten]

I love you, too.

Poof...