Part of Patriot Act ruled unconstitutional

[ixnay]

http://www.cnn.com/2004/LAW/01/26/pa....ap/index.html

LOS ANGELES, California (AP) -- A federal judge has declared unconstitutional a portion of the USA Patriot Act that bars giving expert advice or assistance to groups designated international terrorist organizations.

The ruling marks the first court decision to declare a part of the post-September 11, 2001 anti-terrorism statute unconstitutional, said David Cole, a Georgetown University law professor who argued the case on behalf of the Humanitarian Law Project.

In a ruling handed down late Friday and made available Monday, U.S. District Judge Audrey Collins said the ban on providing "expert advice or assistance" is impermissibly vague, in violation of the First and Fifth Amendments.

John Tyler, the Justice Department attorney who argued the case, had no comment and referred calls to the department press office in Washington. A message left there was not immediately returned.

The case before the court involved five groups and two U.S. citizens seeking to provide support for lawful, nonviolent activities on behalf of Kurdish refugees in Turkey.

The Humanitarian Law Project, which brought the lawsuit, said the plaintiffs were threatened with 15 years in prison if they advised groups on seeking a peaceful resolution of the Kurds' campaign for self-determination in Turkey.

The judge's ruling said the law, as written, does not differentiate between impermissible advice on violence and encouraging the use of peaceful, nonviolent means to achieve goals.

"The USA Patriot Act places no limitation on the type of expert advice and assistance which is prohibited and instead bans the provision of all expert advice and assistance regardless of its nature," the judge said.

Cole declared the ruling "a victory for everyone who believes the war on terrorism ought to be fought consistent with constitutional principles."

[Nubclear]

[The Mad Viking]

They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.

[chequita guevara]

Good. Now let's get the rest of it.

[curtsibling]

The patriot act is an evil in disguise.

The might of the US military has always been enough to safeguard the USA.

The events of the last few years have had more to them than meets the eye.

[Whaleboy]

I concur entirely with the thread thus far.

[Drogue]

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
I concur entirely with the thread thus far.

I must dissent.

A people unwilling to sacrifice some part of their individual rights for the welfare of the people as a whole are not worthy of liberties nor will they long enjoy them.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by The Mad Viking
They who would give up an essential liberty for temporary security, deserve neither liberty or security.

They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security.

This government is not our enemy, nor did they kill thousands of our countrymen on 9/11. Now is again the time for all good men to come to the support of our country.

[curtsibling]

Stealth-transforming a free nation into a draconian police-state does not benefit the people.

Only the corrupt mandarins in charge.

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


I must dissent.

A people unwilling to sacrifice some part of their individual rights for the welfare of the people as a whole are not worthy of liberties nor will they long enjoy them.

As evidenced by the courts shutting part of the Patriot Act down.

[Capt Dizle]

I think these groups and US Citizens need to be a little less concerned about Kurdish liberty and a little more concerned about US security. Turkey has cooperated with US anti-terrorism and US citizens need to just stop their efforts against Turkish national interests.

There is a war on.

[curtsibling]

A 'war' that oddly enough generates vast profits for the same people drafting this dubious 'act'.

A pleasing symmetry, for those on the make.

[Dis]

why am I not surprised by this news?

[Dis]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security.

This government is not our enemy, nor did they kill thousands of our countrymen on 9/11. Now is again the time for all good men to come to the support of our country.

the goverment is always the enemy. Power corrupts. It is an inevitability. Yes we do need goverment for some essentual things. But homeland security is not one of them. . Yes that would appear to not make sense, but it does.

[Thorn]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security.

This government is not our enemy, nor did they kill thousands of our countrymen on 9/11. Now is again the time for all good men to come to the support of our country.

Arguing with a quote be Thomas Jefferson I see....

You make me wretch and want to vomit..... support of our country.... You're not the one that was on a terrorist watch list......

[Dis]

I don't think that is Jefferson quote.

It was one of those other framer dudes. I know the name, I just can't bring it up right now.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security.

Yes. The Russian people are just so damn impatient....

---Josef Stalin
---"Dictatorialism for Dummies"

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Thorn


Arguing with a quote be Thomas Jefferson I see....

You make me wretch and want to vomit..... support of our country.... You're not the one that was on a terrorist watch list......

Feel free to retch and vomit all you want. If you are an American you should be proud to submit to the temporary inconveince of being on a watch list. It is just another way of serving one's country.

Service of any sort is sacrifice. I appreciate the sacrifice you made for our security.

If you are not an American I could care less pal.

[Q Classic]

A people unwilling to sacrifice some part of their individual rights for the welfare of the people as a whole are not worthy of liberties nor will they long enjoy them.

They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security.
This government is not our enemy, nor did they kill thousands of our countrymen on 9/11. Now is again the time for all good men to come to the support of our country.

no, the government is not the enemy.
vigilance must be kept to prevent the government from being the enemy.
it is easier to gain security with no liberty than it is to gain security with liberty; the patriot act is on the path of security with no liberty.
it might be easier to do it this way.
that doesn't make it right.

and that quote is ben franklin's.

[Q Classic]

if you are american you should be proud enough of your institutions that you don't feel scared or threatened by the enemy when there's a war on.

the farce at the airport? the visible junk? it's for show. we don't need it--we look like cowards, scared of small-minded ****** who think the only way to make a point is to kill. americans should be proud enough not to panic and be terrified, we should be proud enough to stand tall and know that our security is working invisibly.

i don't know how they do it in israel, but the airport security in korea is awfully effective. do they have all those machines in full view? no. they have troops stationed here and there, and everything useful is invisible and transparent to the end user. that's standing tall and being proud.

the patriot act is another example of cowering. while some of the ideas behind it are good, the implementation is flawed--rather than protecting us and making us proud, it "protects" us and makes us look scared.

get rid of the "patriot" act.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Q Cubed

Quote:

A people unwilling to sacrifice some part of their individual rights for the welfare of the people as a whole are not worthy of liberties nor will they long enjoy them.

Quote:

They who would not give up temporary liberty for essential security, will have neither liberty or security. This government is not our enemy, nor did they kill thousands of our countrymen on 9/11. Now is again the time for all good men to come to the support of our country.

no, the government is not the enemy.
vigilance must be kept to prevent the government from being the enemy.
it is easier to gain security with no liberty than it is to gain security with liberty; the patriot act is on the path of security with no liberty.
it might be easier to do it this way.
that doesn't make it right.

and that quote is ben franklin's.

And really its up to good men to make sound judgements. We just have a different opinion about what degree of security is justified and what degree of liberty is at risk. I do not yet see a problem. No one has made a convincing case that our liberty is at jeopardy as far as I am concerned. As far as the judiciary is concerned I am content to assume any decision to strike down any specific provision of the Patriot Act is merely a partisan act by a liberal activist until facts surface to the contrary. It is a safe position to take.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Dissident
I don't think that is Jefferson quote.

It was one of those other framer dudes. I know the name, I just can't bring it up right now.

Ben Franklin

[Odin]

Jimmy, you sound like a frigging NAZI.

[Capt Dizle]

Originally posted by Odin
Jimmy, you sound like a frigging NAZI.

No, much worse. I am a Republican.

But that was a good argument.

[Q Classic]

beat you to the punch, drosedars.

And really its up to good men to make sound judgements. We just have a different opinion about what degree of security is justified and what degree of liberty is at risk. I do not yet see a problem. No one has made a convincing case that our liberty is at jeopardy as far as I am concerned. As far as the judiciary is concerned I am content to assume any decision to strike down any specific provision of the Patriot Act is merely a partisan act by a liberal activist until facts surface to the contrary. It is a safe position to take.

i do not think that anybody in congress qualifies as a "good man" (or woman). therefore, i do not think they are qualified to make such judgements.
this is the same congress that passesd the DMCA and the new Medicare bill when times were calm, am i to assume that somehow they got smarter/better in the chaotic aftermath of 11 sept?

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


And really its up to good men to make sound judgements. We just have a different opinion about what degree of security is justified and what degree of liberty is at risk. I do not yet see a problem. No one has made a convincing case that our liberty is at jeopardy as far as I am concerned. As far as the judiciary is concerned I am content to assume any decision to strike down any specific provision of the Patriot Act is merely a partisan act by a liberal activist until facts surface to the contrary. It is a safe position to take.

Yes. All the peoples should, of course, trust Commander-in-Comrade Gyorj Boosh!
Those who do not are liberal commienazi terrorists!

[Odin]

Originally posted by jimmytrick


No, much worse. I am a Republican.

Same thing.

[curtsibling]

Originally posted by jimmytrick Feel free to retch and vomit all you want.

Can I do it in your face?

Originally posted by jimmytrick If you are an American you should be proud to submit to the temporary inconveince of being on a watch list. It is just another way of serving one's country.

That statement is so insane, it would make Himmler seem like a boy scout leader.

Had he been here today, George Washington would beat you to death.

Originally posted by jimmytrick Service of any sort is sacrifice. I appreciate the sacrifice you made for our security.

I appreciate that you can take blinkered jingoism too far.

What will you say when the system turns on you, jimmy boy?

Will you take permanent detainment like a good sheeple?

Originally posted by jimmytrick If you are not an American I could care less pal.

Behold the hideous stereotype, given life!

I can assure you, the feeling is mutual!

[Nubclear]

TROLL