New all purpose Baldurs Gate thread - Page 4

duke o' york · February 9, 2004, 09:18

Not sure I want any halflings in my party!

Mind you, this is the first time out so I'm going to need all the help I can get, and having a necromancer on board will be useful to practise casting spells.

Will a necromancer join a good character's party or not?

Never mind, I can knife 'em when I get to the Inn. After remembering to remove any decent stuff they might have.

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 09:59

Quote:

Originally posted by duke o' york
Who is Nevin? I got the antidote from the chest when I retrieved the sword. This had better be worthwhile, because I'm certain to find myself poisoned sooner or later and in dire need of that antidote.

Don't worry about telling me what you get for it, but knowing who Nevin is would be nice. Maybe I just forgot I'd spoken to him.

You know the haystack you get the book from. He's the guy with the cow next to it. I think Nevin's his name...

Quote:

Originally posted by duke o' york
What would you suggest beginning with then? Something with an enormous sword?

Or someone who can use magic straightaway?

For a first time, a fighter. Paladin's good for RP, but not as strong as a fighter. Mage is good but hard at the begining, with a pittance of HP. Thief is good, one of my favs, actually. Druid's are also quite good, since Cleric's level up very slowly towards the end, and druids are prety quick. Depends on you're style and you're party. There is a pretty usual party to take through (you'll notice with the quests, who you seem to be 'meant' to take) and so you don't need a thief, but an extra healer, mage or fighter is always good.

Ranger's not a bad choice at all, and has some nice RPing, playing it in character, it's just I never saw the point of them as opposed to fighters really.

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 10:01

Quote:

Originally posted by duke o' york
Not sure I want any halflings in my party!

Mind you, this is the first time out so I'm going to need all the help I can get, and having a necromancer on board will be useful to practise casting spells.

Will a necromancer join a good character's party or not?

Xzar won't like it, but will if you keep your rep at 18 or below. And halflings make the best thieves, they get some nice modifiers.

Quote:

Originally posted by duke o' york
Never mind, I can knife 'em when I get to the Inn. After remembering to remove any decent stuff they might have.

Good plan. You can practice with spells and then dump them later

Keeps your party strong until you get someone better too.

duke o' york · February 9, 2004, 10:22

I am still tempted to get a decent archer as my character, but I guess I'll bump into NPCs later on whop could fill that role just as well , while I need the fight now.
I still haven't been through the manual particularly well, so I'm not certain about dual and multiple classes, but will work it all out slowly and get to grips with the game.

Thanks for all your help so far.

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 10:44

Both fighters and rangers can be good archers. Give a fighter a 5 in long or crossbow and you can do a lot of damage. You can find NPCs who can do fill pretty much any role.

I can try to do a brief explanation of dual and multi-classing:

Restrictions: Each class has it's restrictions for when dual and multi-classed. Whatever it is dualed with, a cleric can only use cleric weapons, a mage cannot use armour and cast, a thief cannot wear better than studded leather and use their skills and a druid can only use druidic weapons. These are the same whether dualed or multi-classed, IIRC.

Multi-classing is quite simple. You have two classes, and any Exp you get is split evenly between the two. You go up levels as normal (though get only half the HP bonus for each level of each class). Thus at the XP cap, you have 49500 in each, instead of 89000 XP. You get the skills of both classes, but also the restrictions, as above. Any race but humans can do this, and it is decided at the start.

Dual classing is a little more complex. You start as one class, and whenever you decide to, you choose to dual. You must have the minimum stats for the class you wish to dual too, and then you start from 0 Xp in that class. When you reach one level above the level you were when you dualed, you gain the abilities of your old class too. You continue to go up only in your new class, never gaining any more Xp in your old class. For example, a fighter dualed at level 3 to a mage, would start for 0 Xp as a mage. When he gets to level 4 mage, he gets his fighter abilities back, and so can use fighter weapons with their ability. He will always remain a level 3 fighter, but will continue to gain, as usual, in his mage class. Only humans can dual class.

The main difference, indeed only real difference, is that a dualed character advances in one class first, then their dualed class, in terms of experience, whereas a multi-class character chooses both at the start, and advances in them simultaneously.

duke o' york · February 9, 2004, 11:03

Right........

So multi- is both together, and dual- is consecutive.

To be honest, I think I'll save this kind of shenanigans for my second time round, and just play a simpler version to ease me in gently. Though Jamski will no doubt be expecting me to empty all of the dungeons and slay every monster in the game before taking to the Swords Coast and doing the same there.

Maybe one day, but, unlike you Drogue, I am not yet worthy to apprentice myself to him.

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 11:11

Pretty much. If you've started as an elf, you don't have much choice with your PC anyway. The only usual dual class is Imoen to a mage. I don't do it, but it can work out, if you want more magic over thievery.

But yeh, just play and learn as you go seems best

Jamski · February 9, 2004, 11:26

I want those dungeons EMPTIED NOW!

My one short collection of advice :

Talk to everyone with a blue circle.
If you can't beat them now, come back later.
Your Armour Class can never be too low.
Use the weapons that you hit more often with, not the ones that hit harder. Most monsters only need one hit anyway.
Get them before they get you - use bows, slings etc.
Don't be afraid to use potions, scrolls and magic arrows. The game gives you plenty of "disposable" items.
Look before you leap. Hide-in-shadows and Invisibilty are your best friends.
Have fun

Drogue - you have learnt well

Nice multi and dual information

Thus begins an apprenticeship

-Jam

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 11:38

You know what I'd love? An arena where you could have two parties fighting each other. I'd love to see which is the best party

Simple rules: 1 PC, 5 NPCs.
Xp at the cap level for all characters.
Any weapons, bracers, boots, shields, rings and necklaces and armour found in the game. In other words, anything you can carry, is allowed, but not in your inventory.

If you can do a two player, and try this, anyone care for a battle? Maybe it would have to be done with only 3 characters each, which is a little annoying

Jamski · February 9, 2004, 12:16

We could just imagine it. Better would be 1 PC and 1 NPC though to make it simpler.

-Jam

duke o' york · February 9, 2004, 12:23

Beware my staff! And the book I found in the cowshed!

centrifuge · February 9, 2004, 12:27

duke,

Talk to everyone that doesn't have a generic name (like townsperson, citizen, etc.) That way you'll catch almost every possible quest(even if you decide not to do them).

Illuminatus · February 9, 2004, 14:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
Its Dak'kon's Zerth. Dak'kon is the Gith, and his sword is a Zerth blade.

This is annoying since Zerth blades cannot exist without their owner.
* Jamski likes being pedantic *

Yeah, dam it! Vhalior`s helmet casting simulacrum spell?
Other PT items in BG2 don`t have any sense! Why did you put this in game?

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 14:58

Because they're very funky. Balduran's Armour/Helm/Shield/Sword all belong, all from Deirdre. However Robe of Vecna is very cool, Vhalior's Helm produces some interesting opportunities with selections, and there are many lil things that are very cool there. Having items from other games makes you smile, like putting in characters from other games. It makes you smile when you play them. A great idea IMHO.

Besides, without some of them, we'd be lacking in magical Katana's, and wouldn't have some of the other funky goods

Illuminatus · February 9, 2004, 15:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue
Having items from other games makes you smile, like putting in characters from other games. It makes you smile when you play them. A great idea IMHO.

Besides, without some of them, we'd be lacking in magical Katana's, and wouldn't have some of the other funky goods

Vecna robe is cool- made fight with Irenicus much easier.

But if you played PT you would surely realise that their magic abbilities in BG2 don`t have any sense when trying to relate it to their original game.

Traianvs · February 9, 2004, 16:37

Btw Jam, if you play BG2, do you set it to hardcore mode, where all monsters have 200% HP etc?

Maybe that'll be more of a challenge

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 17:00

Quote:

Originally posted by obstructor
But if you played PT you would surely realise that their magic abbilities in BG2 don`t have any sense when trying to relate it to their original game.

That's the idea. People look at them and smile. It's not trying to relate to the original game, it's just there for colour.

Illuminatus · February 9, 2004, 17:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue

That's the idea. People look at them and smile. It's not trying to relate to the original game, it's just there for colour.

So where is Magic Ring of Little Pink Elephants?

Dis · February 9, 2004, 17:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Drogue

Have done, that raises it one, for turning him in.

Arrrggg! I refuse to go anywhere near him. I specifically walk the long way round the Government District so I never have to meet him. Most anoying character ever. He's worse than Noober.

With Keldorn in the party?

Besides, have to do Fallen Paladin's first.

Jan is cool.

So is Noober for that matter.

Jamski · February 9, 2004, 18:41

Quote:

Btw Jam, if you play BG2, do you set it to hardcore mode, where all monsters have 200% HP etc?

Of course. Doesn't everyone? And I have full "Tactics" and "Acenction" installed as well. I LOVE "Improved Demogorgon" on Insane

-Jam

Traianvs · February 9, 2004, 19:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski

Of course. Doesn't everyone? And I have full "Tactics" and "Acenction" installed as well. I LOVE "Improved Demogorgon" on Insane

-Jam

woot de fook...

what's that Tactics and Ascension again? Enlighten me

Dis · February 9, 2004, 19:33

The regular demogorgon is challenging enough. I don't want an improved version.

I don't like my games to be that difficult. I tire of micromanaging spells.

Drogue · February 9, 2004, 19:39

I just use it on core rules. It's how it's meant to be played, how it was set up to be.

lord of the mark · February 9, 2004, 23:36

well i just bought Planescape:Torment for $5(US) at my local bargain bin - a triumph in shopping, at least.

The game seems a bit ghoulish though. (im still in mortuary at the beginning) trying out the interface. I do like the dialogues, but.......

Marid Audran · February 10, 2004, 00:49

Quote:

Originally posted by obstructor

So where is Magic Ring of Little Pink Elephants?

Heh heh...I agree with you obstructor, but at least that isn't as bad an the fan-made mod which includes "bonus merchants" for IWDII hocking items from the Baldur's Gate series. Valygar's family leather and katana, Jan Jansen's "adventurewear," Nalia's signet ring, etc. Besides the similar discontinuity in having them available and for use in the first place, the Icewind Dale series takes place before the generation from Baldur's Gate was even born!!

Quote:

Originally posted by lord of the mark
well i just bought Planescape:Torment for $5(US) at my local bargain bin - a triumph in shopping, at least.

The game seems a bit ghoulish though. (im still in mortuary at the beginning) trying out the interface. I do like the dialogues, but.......

Part of the charm, my friend. The ambience of Sigil is other-wordly...quite literally. No Tolkein-esque blandness here. The game picks up as soon as you spring yourself from the Mortuary and you're on Senior Collector Pharod's trail...

You came upon a bargain of CRPG-ing goodness for the price of a latte and a biscotti! From how you described your Baldur's Gate experience PS:T is probably more up your alley...combat is scaled back in favor of dialogue and character interaction. IWD I/II, on the other hand, swings the pendulum to the other extreme.

Qilue · February 10, 2004, 02:59

Just giving advice here.

None seem to have mentioned the IWD merchant that is placed in the Copper Coronet. Most of what he sells is good, except for 1 item which is excellant, The Sling of Everard.

This requires no ammunition, is +5 so it can hit almost anything (even a certain demi-lich), and can even bypass the magical defenses of most low to medium level wizards. Also, a 'feature' in BG2 adds the melee strength bonuses to sling damage. Jaheira makes a good canditate for a belt of giant strength.

About paladins (especially if they have been buffed by the tomes in BG1) for BG2 - a certain two hand sword held by a crimson dragon and the inquisitor kit makes them a lot of fun to play. The Inquisitor's true sight ability will make mage fights much much easier.

The cleric/ranger multi class is another good combination when dual wielding Crom Faeyr and an upgraded Mace of Disruption.

Viconia may be everyone's love of their life, but Anomen's undead turning/destroying ability cannot be underestimated. At lvl 16+, standard liches become little more than a minor delay. At lvl 18+, vampires are no longer any kind of threat and at lvl 21+, undead of any kind are longer a threat (a certain demi-lich seems to be immune though). Also, a lich's magical defenses provide no protection from undead turning.

Just so you know I have played the games

Completed BG1 4 times (elf mage/thief, human paladin*, ½elf cleric/mage* and ½elf cleric/ranger*)
Completed BG2 6 times (three *'s above, dualed ranger->cleric, monk and sorcerer)(didn't get around to playing the mage/thief)

Dis · February 10, 2004, 03:10

PS:T.

I just finished it. Here are some thoughts.

I can't say I like the gameplay as much as BG1 and 2, or even IWD 1 and 2. But the game is the same engine, so the gameplay isn't bad. But overall the combat just isn't as good. I did have some fun when my The Nameless One as a mage was a higher level. I was sending him out solo killing packs of demon creatures

. Some of the higher level spells are interesting. And while the graphics of those spell effects aren't of real high graphical quality, I found some of the spell effects to be better than the BG and IWD games. So that is something to look forward to. That's why I recommend using your main character as a mage- if not you can pick up one single class mage later on, but that's later in the game. And Dakkon is a multi-class- he never does get any high level spells.

So the combat does improve. And the game does improve once you add more NPC's. Annah and Fall from Grace are the more interesting ones. That might be because of the romance implications and their feelings for you etc. And of course Morte is a hoot. But overall there isn't as much interaction as you have in BG2. But much better than IWD 1 and 2 obviously.

The story line is top notch. And the ending is the best of the infinity games I think. The game kind of won me over with the ending. It helped make up for lackluster gameplay somewhat. The entire plot ranks pretty good. Just as good as the Baldur's gate 1 and 2 plot.

I have no regrets about the time spent with this game. I may play this game in the future, who knows.

Jamski · February 10, 2004, 04:18

Quote:

what's that Tactics and Ascension again? Enlighten me

Its two BIG mods that make all the boss fights harder, add insane random encounters, give Abasigal a brother in ToB etc etc. Fun.

Quote:

I just use it on core rules. It's how it's meant to be played, how it was set up to be.

Sure, but its so easy. I like a chance to exist that my characters might die, otherwise it gets dull, fast.

Quote:

well i just bought Planescape:Torment for $5(US) at my local bargain bin - a triumph in shopping, at least.
The game seems a bit ghoulish though. (im still in mortuary at the beginning) trying out the interface. I do like the dialogues, but.......

You swine. $5. I paid a lot more than that, last week

And yeah, the whole game is obsessed with death.

Quote:

Also, a 'feature' in BG2 adds the melee strength bonuses to sling damage.

Only in BG1. It got taken out for BG2, it was a mistake.

Diss - congrats. I hope you didn't get spoiled by what I posted on Iplay.

-Jam

Dis · February 10, 2004, 04:27

no, I skipped over that.

I'm not sure about sling damage. I usually only used them for my sorcerer who had an average strenght anyways.

And shouldn't slings add strength to damage bonus? If you can pull the sling back farther, it should hit harder...

Drogue · February 10, 2004, 05:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Qilue
None seem to have mentioned the IWD merchant that is placed in the Copper Coronet. Most of what he sells is good, except for 1 item which is excellant, The Sling of Everard.

Is this an add on? Sling of Everard? Where from in the CC, I've never seen this?

Quote:

Originally posted by Qilue
About paladins (especially if they have been buffed by the tomes in BG1) for BG2 - a certain two hand sword held by a crimson dragon and the inquisitor kit makes them a lot of fun to play. The Inquisitor's true sight ability will make mage fights much much easier.

Or just use Keldorn. The PC can be used for something while still having a decent Inquisitor

Quote:

Originally posted by Qilue
The cleric/ranger multi class is another good combination when dual wielding Crom Faeyr and an upgraded Mace of Disruption.

Nice idea, though i intend to use Korgan for that, but with Crom Faeyr and one of the nice axes (Stonefire or Frostbite probably). Sunblade is also wonderful, and can be dual-wielded with Blduran's Sword, Blade of Roses, etc.

Quote:

Originally posted by Qilue
Viconia may be everyone's love of their life, but Anomen's undead turning/destroying ability cannot be underestimated. At lvl 16+, standard liches become little more than a minor delay. At lvl 18+, vampires are no longer any kind of threat and at lvl 21+, undead of any kind are longer a threat (a certain demi-lich seems to be immune though). Also, a lich's magical defenses provide no protection from undead turning.

Why is Anomen's better than Viconia's? Turning undead is nice

However having her and Keldorn can get interesting when she turns him