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View Poll Results: What do you think about CC-PUT Unification?
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I am glad about the Unification of CC and PUT 
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14 |
34.15% |
I am afraid of CC-PUT! 
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3 |
7.32% |
I don`t think it is important. 
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7 |
17.07% |
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This is the most exciting event in ACDG ever!
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5 |
12.20% |
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Xenobananas are tasty.
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10 |
24.39% |
I hope we can cooperate with CC-PUT! 
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2 |
4.88% |
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February 4, 2004, 14:07
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#61
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Deity
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
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Silly 
You have to put a tiger-skin rug on the stairs.
-Jam
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February 4, 2004, 15:12
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#62
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Local Time: 04:24
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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Its my party and I'll cr.. erm.. put marbles on the stairs if I want to.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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February 4, 2004, 16:21
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#63
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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Quote:
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You have not answered the vendetta question.
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That will be up to CyCon. If they wish to persue vendetta, they may.
If not...then they may not.
Again, it really is up to them.
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Second, if former PUT members decided to go their own away in the future, as it is a voluntary initiative by PUT, they should be allowed to do so.
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They should be, but for all intents and purposes they are an eliminated faction now.
I'm sure, however, if PUT members wanted to regain their nation that CyCon would allow them to 
Remember, this wasn't forced vassalization.
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Anyhow from what you say I gather they are really just a humdrum permi pact.
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Sigh. Call it what you will.
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February 4, 2004, 17:32
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#64
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Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jamski
Sorry, but PUT are letting the CyCon play the PUT turn for them?
This stinks.
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Imagine this. PUT decides to ceed all their bases to us (allowed). That is the same thing, in effect.
Sure, we could not play the CyCon turn, we could let Archaic play it and tell him what to do. It makes no difference in reality. We are effectively one faction. Whether we ceed all PUT bases to the CyCon or leave it as too, I don't see a difference.
We have two turns, but we only get one turn of base production, one of movement, etc, just split into two. It's like playing half your turn, and then stopping and playing the other half. What is the difference between that and playing it as one turn, joining the two turns together?
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Originally posted by Hercules
Jamski makes good points. If you are now one unified grouping a la Germany a la Arab state, then you don't need two turns.
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We could do it as one turn, but it makes no difference. We can move each unit one space, each base has one turn production. If we did it as one turn it would be the same.
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Originally posted by Hercules
Second, if former PUT members decided to go their own away in the future, as it is a voluntary initiative by PUT, they should be allowed to do so.
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There are only 2 PUT members, neither of which is particularly active. Archaic has the final say, as he runs this as a PBEM, so if he decides to ceed PUT to the CyCon, that is his choice. If I give my computer to someone, that is my choice. If I gave it to them, and then wanted it back, they would probably do so, but they would be under no obligation to.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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February 4, 2004, 17:38
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#65
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Deity
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
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Quote:
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Imagine this. PUT decides to ceed all their bases to us (allowed). That is the same thing, in effect.
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This is hardly fair then, is it? And don't feed me some line of krap about how you and the Uni have been buddy-buddy for years.
The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish.
-Jam
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February 4, 2004, 17:40
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#66
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Provost
Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jamski
The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish.
-Jam
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Why! Destroy such magnificient bases? If they want to gift them their choice - our happiness - other factions unhappiness
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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February 4, 2004, 17:42
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#67
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Deity
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
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Yes, but HARDLY FAIR, really.
-Jam
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February 4, 2004, 17:51
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#68
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PolyCast Thread Necromancer
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: We are all Asher now.
Posts: 1,437
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It may not be fair, but its not against the rules.
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February 4, 2004, 17:51
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#69
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Provost
Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
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Doublepost - sorry 
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
Last edited by Illuminatus; February 4, 2004 at 18:02.
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February 4, 2004, 18:00
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#70
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Provost
Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 5,942
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Triplepost - sorry again
__________________
SMAC/X FAQ | Chiron Archives
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man. --G.B.Shaw
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February 4, 2004, 19:00
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#71
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King
Local Time: 18:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Posts: 2,649
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Drogue
We have two turns, but we only get one turn of base production, one of movement, etc, just split into two. It's like playing half your turn, and then stopping and playing the other half. What is the difference between that and playing it as one turn, joining the two turns together?
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Erm, technological research? You can beeline with yourself! Now if that wasn´t unfair...
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February 4, 2004, 19:05
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#72
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Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
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You can also beeline with yourself. 
I presume you are talking about leapfrogging, but I don't see the difference. Assuming equal labs production, it doesn't make a difference whether or not your labs production is gathered in one faction or split over two. You'll still need to research the same techs. In fact, we will have more problems, as we have twice as much chance as you that a beeline can be interrupted due to mod3 rule interference.
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
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February 5, 2004, 07:23
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#73
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Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Jamski
This is hardly fair then, is it? And don't feed me some line of krap about how you and the Uni have been buddy-buddy for years.
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I'm not going to. Fair or not, it's the PUT's choice. If you wish to ceed your bases to another faction, you may. If another faction wishes to ceed theirs to you, they may. It's like giving a submissive ally all your techs, and units, etc. Some gift them bases too.
If you told a faction to ceed you a base or you'll declare war, and they do, should that be against the rules?
And it is fair, because we all live by the same rules. If you wish to do the same, you may. However if you do not wish to, that is your perogative. The rules are the same for everyone.
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Originally posted by Jamski
The fair thing is to self-destruct the Uni faction if they have had enough, and let any surviving members join the CyCon if they so wish.
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They don't wish to self destruct. Their faction, they decide their diplomacy. If they want to submit to another faction as a submissive ally, they can. Quite realistic actually.
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Originally posted by Micha
Erm, technological research? You can beeline with yourself! Now if that wasn´t unfair...
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As Maniac has answered, as can anyone. It doesn't matter if it's all your research or half yours and half someone elses.
Also, why does that differ from before the unification? We were beelining with PUT then, we are now. That hasn't changed.
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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February 5, 2004, 09:05
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#74
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Local Time: 04:24
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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All's fair in love and war, dear.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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February 5, 2004, 16:49
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#75
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Deity
Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: amongst equals.
Posts: 12,956
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Skanky Burns
All's fair in love and war, dear.
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The only reason why you dare saying this is 'cause his avatar is gone on the moment? 
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February 5, 2004, 19:27
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#76
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Local Time: 04:24
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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I said that around 8 hours before you checked his away status.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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February 5, 2004, 22:01
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#77
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Deity
Local Time: 18:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: On a Board Walk
Posts: 11,565
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In a MP game you actually can't cede bases as you can in SP games. If you wish to do so a faction must vacate its base(s) and the faction taking over have to occupy the base(s), declaring vendetta while they are at it.
It is a long and tiresome process if ceding more than one base. If ceding all the bases, the surrendering faction cease after self destructing their own last base.
__________________
"Four things come not back: the spoken word, the sped arrow, the past life and the neglected opportunity."
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February 6, 2004, 06:33
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#78
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Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Herc: I was unaware we were using the rule of not ceding bases? I'm aware you can't cede your last, but I thought all others were allowed?
I may be wrong though 
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
Last edited by Drogue; February 6, 2004 at 11:37.
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February 6, 2004, 11:18
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#79
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King
Local Time: 18:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Technical University of Ilmenau, Germany
Posts: 2,649
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Drogue
Herc: I was unaware we were using the rule of not ceeding bases? I'm away you can't ceed your last, but I thought all others were allowed?
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Drogue, you shouldn´t taste every single drink you pour in the CDA
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February 6, 2004, 11:39
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#80
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Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Oxford or Northampton, England
Posts: 8,116
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Micha
Drogue, you shouldn´t taste every single drink you pour in the CDA
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Actually, I really should 
It's not a typo though. Since I never needed to spell it before, I presumed it would be like the usual English, where a long e sound is spelt as a double e, as in speed or need, whereas a single is, and in fled, is pronounced as a short e.
I typo less when drunk
__________________
Smile
For though he was master of the world, he was not quite sure what to do next
But he would think of something
"Hm. I suppose I should get my waffle a santa hat." - Kuciwalker
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February 6, 2004, 13:51
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#81
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King
Local Time: 18:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Moo Like In Moomin
Posts: 1,579
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I, for one, welcome the arrival of our new cybernetic lab rats friends.
__________________
"The number of political murders was a little under one million (800,000 - 900,000)." - chegitz guevara on the history of the USSR.
"I think the real figures probably are about a million or less." - David Irving on the number of Holocaust victims.
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February 6, 2004, 14:19
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#82
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Princess
Local Time: 11:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: falling, once again
Posts: 8,823
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I agree with those assessment that such "unification" benefits CPU in research and social engineering settings in that CPU can face less reseach costs when leapfroging researching and can benefit from different SE settings. The benefit is somewhat unbalanced compare to the real unifications of two teams, ie. when two teams becomes one, have one capital and one symbol. Also Hercules was right in saying that in MP one team cannot gift a base to anther team. The only thing you can do is to let the other team invade it and there will be costs associated with such invasion. The CPU "unification" appearantly has avoided this consequence.
Also, the CPU "unification" also appears to be superior to a permanant pact to the CyCons. In a perm pact the PUT will still have its own will and rans its own bases (and may even want to backstab and abandon the perm pact in a future time). While in our case the PUT bases are actually run by the CyCons and the CCs do not have to worry about anything that can rise inside the PUT. However, I believe this is similar to the case in an SP game when a faction surrender to another faction. You would be able to do the same thing above and the submissive faction will do whatever you want it to do. As long as the PUT members agrees, I do not think other teams can do anything about it.
In other words, I believe that although it is pretty tough for other teams, it is a truth that they have to face, and it's not something that is not allowed by the game rules.
__________________
Be good, and if at first you don't succeed, perhaps failure will be back in fashion soon. -- teh Spamski
Grapefruit Garden
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February 6, 2004, 16:49
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#83
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Deity
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
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Oh well... looks like we're stuck with CyUni forever then
-Jam
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February 6, 2004, 17:42
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#84
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Local Time: 19:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Gent, Belgium
Posts: 10,712
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Keep in mind that PUT bases don't get the advantages of CyCon secret projects, so it's not like it are all advantages. A real unification into one faction would probably also be more advantagous for us for this reason (shared SP benefits), if it weren't for the fact that bases can't be traded between human players except by conquest (with heavy pop and infrastructure loss...)
__________________
Contraria sunt Complementa. -- Niels Bohr
Mods: SMAniaC (SMAC) & Planetfall (Civ4)
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February 6, 2004, 18:09
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#85
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Princess
Local Time: 11:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: falling, once again
Posts: 8,823
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I agree that's true too. Although to benefit from a CC SP would mean not benefiting from PUT's free nodes ...
But yes you are right. Anything has two sides. 
__________________
Be good, and if at first you don't succeed, perhaps failure will be back in fashion soon. -- teh Spamski
Grapefruit Garden
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February 6, 2004, 21:13
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#86
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Deity
Local Time: 17:24
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2002
Location: lol ED&D is officially full PvP LOL
Posts: 13,229
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The effic bonus from splitting the bases between two factions is the killer.
-Jam
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