"Boys are stupid, throw rocks at them" - Page 3

Sava · February 2, 2004, 16:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Jac de Molay

Yeah, Im protesting alright

Im "protesting" that most people are intelligent and sophisticated enough to decide for themselves what is humorous and what is offensive. and make their purchasing choices accordingly.

The self-proclaimed PC crusaders that want these pulled from the shelves have apparently made that decision for us already. Good thing we have them to watch over us....

This whole thing reeks of hypocrisy. How many of these stores carry South Park merchandise? Violent video games?

bullshit... you are trying to justify "speech" that directly incites violence... How about a shirt that says "girls are stupid, rape them"?

oh I guess the PC police are running rampant

"black people are stupid, let's lynch them" OH NO PC POLICE

the shirt may have been originally a joke, but it's not funny... and certainly not "free expression".

Sprayber · February 2, 2004, 16:39

I've forgotten which side of the arguement I'm for. Can someone remind me

Q Classic · February 2, 2004, 17:51

the side that thinks it's stupid and doesn't give a **** anyhow?

yavoon · February 2, 2004, 18:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
bullshit... you are trying to justify "speech" that directly incites violence... How about a shirt that says "girls are stupid, rape them"?

oh I guess the PC police are running rampant

"black people are stupid, let's lynch them" OH NO PC POLICE

the shirt may have been originally a joke, but it's not funny... and certainly not "free expression".

I think free speech should cover all those.

Japher · February 2, 2004, 18:15

"I think free speech should cover all those."

We all do, but sadly it doesn't. People take offense to free speech...

People Are Stupid... Shuddup!!

Oncle Boris · February 2, 2004, 18:18

Quote:

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
The thing, is a similar "humourous" T-Shirt could not be made in this society about some form of violence against women.

Exactly. Personally, I think it should be allowed. Both for men and women.

Jac de Molay · February 2, 2004, 18:34

Quote:

bullshit... you are trying to justify "speech" that directly incites violence... How about a shirt that says "girls are stupid, rape them"?

Bullshit....explain to me how this is any different than half the crap on south park these same kids watch and buy on t shirts and merchandise.

Heck I think this is tame compared to most of the stuff these same kids are exposed to.

And quit bringing up lame comparisons like "rape them" because the context and the way its portrayed is what's ultimately important here. No of course I won't justify speech that says stuff like that, but this is completely different and more lighthearted.

Are you going to get your panties in a bunch over violent video games and TV? Because they're far far worse.

Verto · February 2, 2004, 18:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
I think the action is reasonable... I wonder... if the shirt had said "Jews are stupid, throw rocks at them" would people feel the same?

I agree with Sava on this one. (which is in itself reason for concern.)

What would happen if I exchanged Boy with:

Muslims
Blacks
Homosexuals

MrFun · February 2, 2004, 19:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Japher

I don't like his reasoning. Saying that is o.k. because it is funny, still doesn't make it right.

He's a moderator you know -- you might have to agree with him if you want to continue participating in this forum.

MrFun · February 2, 2004, 19:05

People who are protesting these t-shirts are stupid -- throw rocks at them.

Japher · February 2, 2004, 19:06

MrFun is gay... throw him out of a helicopter!!!

If someone, anyone, throws a rock at me I am suing that T-shirt company...

Someone throw a rock at me please

Provost Harrison · February 2, 2004, 19:08

I'm going to produce my own line...

"Women are weak, beat them up when married"

or perhaps

"Women are stupid, they should only be allowed in the kitchen and bedroom"

Only harmless fun after all

Verres · February 2, 2004, 19:08

With pleasure, Japher. consider yourself knocked unconscious by a mad rock throwing girl who thinks boys are stupid.

Verres · February 2, 2004, 19:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I'm going to produce my own line...

"Women are weak, beat them up when married"

or perhaps

"Women are stupid, they should only be allowed in the kitchen and bedroom"

Only harmless fun after all

Id be happy to help with the marketing for that one

Japher · February 2, 2004, 19:10

Provost Harrison · February 2, 2004, 19:11

See, pretty rotten aren't they?

I understand that those throw rock ones aren't of the same magnitude, but it is a slippery slope.

Verres · February 2, 2004, 19:14

on the contrary Provost, i support them wholeheartedly. I truly believe women should realise their place as sex objects who belong to their husbands. i see no prob with them beign incited to throw rocks at boys...its not like the pathetic little creatures could do any lasting damage, is it?

MrFun · February 2, 2004, 19:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Japher
MrFun is gay... throw him out of a helicopter!!!

If someone, anyone, throws a rock at me I am suing that T-shirt company...

Someone throw a rock at me please

As long as there's a bungee cord attached to me, it might be fun as a real thrill.

As for your plans to sue -- just spill some coffee on yourself.

Guynemer · February 2, 2004, 19:15

To all my fellow boys:

Lighten the **** up.

We're top dogs. We are the dominating force in culture. Deny it all you want, but we control government, business, everything, and we have done this since forever.

As top dogs, others are jealous of that status, and rightly so; there is nothing inherent within us that makes us top dog, other than it has always been so. So when there is a joke made about us, realize that it ain't hurting nothin', it ain't changing nothin'. Yes, it's in poor taste. Big deal. No one in their right mind, including children, actually thinks that this is advocating violence.

If the tables were turned, as some have suggested, and it was "throw rocks at girls" or gays or blacks or insert your prefered minority here, it would be in even more poor taste, because that **** actually ****ing happens.

Japher · February 2, 2004, 19:16

give 'em an inch and... nevermind

Provost Harrison · February 2, 2004, 19:16

I don't think that is true Guynemer...women have a lot of influence and can certainly wield it like a blunt instrument like any bloke.

MichaeltheGreat · February 2, 2004, 19:21

Quote:

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

So why is it right to encourage violence against men, and not against women?

Ahhh, the purity of vision and lack of perspective of youth.

The general "girl version" of reality in that age range is that boys are immature pushy dorks who like to do stupid stuff, especially if it can mess up what you like to do. "Throw rocks at them" is more like "get 'em to go away and stop bugging us" as opposed to "double points for making their ears bleed when you hit their head." Sometimes (and this is something where the PC crowd is the same, whether left or right) you have to go a bit past the literal "hooked on phonics" sound it out word by word way of doing things.

Let's say you're in a room with an ordinary, everyday human being and you engage him in conversation. Now let's have candidate number two - some really hot, cute young woman you'd like to ask out. Now let's say you're in a room with a known paranoid schizophrenic with auditory hallucinations and a nasty habit of spontaneously eviscerating people with whatever implements are at hand. Do you expect that your choice of words and expressions will be interpreted the same way? Didn't think so. So sometimes, under some circumstances, you likely vary what you say and how you say it depending on the audience, and in particular, how likely the audience is to respond in a particular way.

The male gender is, on the whole, more prone to violence and easier to incite to violence individually or as a group. Not to say there aren't exceptions, but most people really aren't going to use ten pound rocks to check the state of other people's brain matter based on a t-shirt with a cartoon and the saying "throw rocks at them"

Quote:

But not all? What do we do for those losers who refuse to resort to rape?

How many women have you known who've been raped? Or threatened with rape? Or punched or slapped around, or made to fear they would be, by fathers, brothers, boyfriends, husbands, or simply strangers? Any family members or close friends? Ever done any kind of volunteer work (any kind, but ten times the points if you've done martial arts training) for women at shelters for domestic violence victims?

I've seen it go the other way, with the women being instigators or mutual beating. Rarely. Not one percent as often as male on female violence.

Now, how many women do you know who have an absolute ability to know that a given stranger, or someone she's just met or casually knows, will never engage in rape or domestic violence? I've yet to meet any mind readers in that department.

How many cultures around the world not only allow, but expect men to **** around because "boys will be boys" but women are sluts, whores, (or else material for killing) if they're not virgins at marriage?

Reality is that gender issues are not symmetrical - not when the average physical abilities are signficantly different, when the emotional response and propensity for violent reaction is different (not "violent" in the legalistic sense, but the general fight side of the fight or flight instinct), and not when social mores for millenia have long considered women as objects and property.

Quote:

And how does this t-shirt condone any of these actions? If you argue that having a shirt that says, 'throw rocks at girls' condones rape, than what does the t-shirt against boys say to them?

It doesn't condone anything in particular. It simply exists in a social context for a species with very distinct physical and emotional response differences between genders, and social contexts that far more often than not allow for total physical, social, and/or economic dominance of one gender by the other.

If women beat the crap out of men as often as the other way around, and were just as prone to both violence and cultures that condoned or accepted violence, you'd have a point about symmetry. If you had a world where you were just as likely to have matriarchal amazon-style societies where men were historically dominated, controlled, and kept in their place, then you'd have a point about symmetry. We don't live in that kind of world.

MichaeltheGreat · February 2, 2004, 19:22

Quote:

Originally posted by Japher
give 'em an inch and... nevermind

You're giving 'em all you've got?

Japher · February 2, 2004, 19:24

actually, I was embellishing... like a true man

Starchild · February 2, 2004, 19:28

*ignores rest of thread as has not seen his name mentioned*

God I'd love one of those t-shirts. It expresses in one simple, almost zen like burst, what I'm thinking about this Valentine's Day.

Verres · February 2, 2004, 19:29

Kuciwalker · February 2, 2004, 19:33

Quote:

Originally posted by Sava
advocating violence is not protected speech... that's why you can't threaten someone with murder or violence.

Wrong. Inciting violence is not protected free speech (and even that has nothing to do with murder threats). It is a protected right, in fact it is an essential liberty, to be able to advocate something that is illegal. Otherwise no law could be overturned, by definition.

Kuciwalker · February 2, 2004, 19:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Comrade Tassadar
Americans are stupid - throw rocks at them!

Verres · February 2, 2004, 19:39

Quote:

Reality is that gender issues are not symmetrical - not when the average physical abilities are signficantly different, when the emotional response and propensity for violent reaction is different (not "violent" in the legalistic sense, but the general fight side of the fight or flight instinct), and not when social mores for millenia have long considered women as objects and property.

And long may it continue!

MichaeltheGreat · February 2, 2004, 19:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
I don't think that is true Guynemer...women have a lot of influence and can certainly wield it like a blunt instrument like any bloke.

Women have a lot of influence - in and to the extent that men have let them have influence. As far as "wielding it like a blunt instrument" - if the ***** gets too uppity, there are lots of "men" who can knock her around and "put her back in her place."

It really doesn't happen very often in the reverse direction.