Should Hive and Drones Merge Factions?

Mead · February 4, 2004, 01:35

Just a thought before I log off.

Uni and CyCon have merged into the Axis Of Evil (AOE) and Googlie and Tassadar have said it was OK.

All their members can now share the same forums.
All the members can help with the planning and turns.
All the members have easy access to all the common information.

Why can't Hive and Drones merge?

It would make things a lot easier for all of us.

We share the same land mass, have worked well together, and would both benefit greatly from the merger.

I'm thinking Drones part of faction could concentrate on the research and Hive (Cloudbase/Command) concentrate on the military.

We put all the tech and energy related SPs in the Drone side and all the military and most mineral SPs in the Hive side. We could send crawlers to whichever side of the faction needed them at the time.

If we are serious about the perma-pact then this is a win-win-lose situation.

Win for Hive, Win for Drones, Lose for AOE.

Isn't this the way it is turning out anyway, CyCon-Uni vs. Hive-Drones? They are getting the advantage of total merger, why shouldn't we and the Drones?

Mead

PS

Maybe sleep deprivation has caused me to have this hallucination, but it sounds like a good idea to me (I have been thinking about it for a day or two).

Voltaire · February 4, 2004, 02:09

I would not be opposed to this, though perhaps it would be best for us to retain some autonomy within the larger body that would be the Hive/Drones united. This would distinguish us from the Uni/CyCon given that the CyCon essentially control the Uni. I’d rather see the Hive/Drones retain their independent status and that the union be seen more as a cooperation between two very close factions. We can work off of a Soviet style system where all involved are represented by the larger Union itself, but each of the republics/factions are equal.

We can let faction leaders maintain their posts, and let each faction have its own administration, but also have an All-Union representative government, an elected leader for the Union, and All-Union delegates who would help synchronies the two factions.

Vander · February 4, 2004, 03:33

I'd like to know why not just stick w/ what we are doing?

t_ras · February 4, 2004, 05:26

i'd rather stick to what we have now too.
i enjoy it more and it is enough reason for me.

Jamski · February 4, 2004, 08:12

We should stick with what we are doing.

The CyUni situation is that the CyCon have taken full control of the Uni. We don't want that.

-Jam

Snowflake · February 4, 2004, 11:18

The Hive and the Drones are two very different factions. We supplement each other very well. The way it is working now has served its purpose well, that is, to confuse the enemy regarding the depth of our relationship.

In a later point of time, when there is no more question about the depth of the relationship, we may want to accept a couple representatives of the other factions into each faction. However, it looks to me the time is not here yet.

Jamski · February 4, 2004, 13:39

It may come soon if WW1 starts.

-Jam

Micha · February 4, 2004, 14:08

CW1, you mean

Yeah, stck to what we have now, it is working well.

Jamski · February 4, 2004, 17:46

Chiron IS our world

-Jam

Frankychan · February 4, 2004, 18:20

As stated before, I like what we are doing now....it wouldn't be as interesting if we just had two big factions with little ones running around instead of one big faction vs. an alliance.

Besides, like Comrade Jamski has said, "Chiron IS our world."

Mead · February 4, 2004, 20:27

Quote:

Originally posted by Vander
I'd like to know why not just stick w/ what we are doing?

I would like to not have to worry about the Drones as a potential adversary. They might feel the same way.

If we do join as a combined team then there would be no danger of either faction betraying the other, since they would be the same faction.

If we did join together:

Then our world map would be much easier to see.

We could turn all the formers over to the Drone labeled bases, free up a lot of minerals for mineral production, PLUS take advantage of the WP.

We could turn all the aviation units over to the Hive labeled bases and get the +2 Cloudbase movement.

We could truly divide the labor of research versus military between the two differently labeled part of the joint faction.

If we retain the same democracy principles that w have now, then I think we will retain a substantial amount political control over the combined faction.

I think having Buster and his collegues on the same team working with us for the same goal would be enjoyable.

CyCon, must, by now, know that it will be facing a combined Drone/Hive alliance.

It will take a turn or two for both us and the Drones to consider my suggested merger, so we do not have to tell anyone else about it. We (the Drones and Us) should just announce it, like the CyCons announced their merger with Uni, as a fait accompli to the world.

Mead

Jamski · February 5, 2004, 04:21

No way. We have to beat the CyUni together, but then its us vs the Drones for control of Planet

Perhaps.

Anyway, they like freedom. Errrgh.

-Jam

Frankychan · February 6, 2004, 18:46

I hope it doesn't come to a Hive vs. Drone final battle.......that would be very bad.

Jamski · February 6, 2004, 21:22

Well, it would be kinda fun to say "ok, we got our joint win" and then bash it out afterwards just for laughs

-Jam

Mead · February 6, 2004, 21:45

Two things to consider.

One, the Pirates did not plan on making a CP and sending it to us until too late. They may still get one to us before their last base is destroyed, but if they made one and sent it to us seeking our protection once the war started their future would be more secure.

Let's not put off a union with the Drones until it is too late. The way I am starting to see it, we are going up against a combined enemy made up of CyCon, Uni, and Peace (or at least all the bases that used to compose Peace). The AOE will very soon be a dangerous force. I hope we can weaken and defeat it before it marshalls its forces. We must move quickly. The sooner we join with the Drones the sooner we get 'turn advantage'.

Two, I have never done this before so I am not sure if it will work (or be allowed if it does work).

What if, in a joint faction we transfer control of all of the military units we are using to attack (or move) at the end of each turn to double the movement and attacks.

For example we build a chopper move it 12 spaces to a base closer to the front line, then we transfer control to the Drones, the Drones move it another 10 spaces to the front (and perhaps attack with it), and then transfer control back to Hive at the end of their turn, we then use it to move or attack, and then return control to the Drones and so on....

The same can be done for all units (ships, rovers, needlejets, probes, etc.).

If we can do it, and it is allowed, we will effectively double the offensive ability and movement of the Drone and Hive military.

Mead

Frankychan · February 6, 2004, 21:57

Never thought about that. I think it should work. Seeing as how when the AI give you units, on your turn you can immediately move them as well. We would effectively be doubling the movement speed of our invasion forces.......but that will have to be put on hold until after we get things moving.

Mead · February 6, 2004, 22:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Frankychan
Never thought about that. I think it should work. Seeing as how when the AI give you units, on your turn you can immediately move them as well. We would effectively be doubling the movement speed of our invasion forces.......but that will have to be put on hold until after we get things moving.

Let's hope that AOE has not realized this trick.

If they start doing it, and the Gods do not prohibit it, we will have no choice but join with the Drones.

If we start doing it, hopefully the AOE will not figure it out for a few turns.

That being said, if we do start using the tactic, let's not use it for attacks (when they will more likely to discover it) until we are ready to fall on them like a tidal wave.

Mead

Vander · February 6, 2004, 23:55

I severely doubt that will be allowed.

Jamski · February 7, 2004, 09:54

Well, bear in mind that the unit has to be in Drones territiry to be transferred to the Drones, and then the next turn they move it back to ours.... its pretty useless actually, just means both factions pay the support costs for a unit that does nothing except cross the border every turn.

-Jam

Mead · February 7, 2004, 11:19

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
Well, bear in mind that the unit has to be in Drones territiry to be transferred to the Drones, and then the next turn they move it back to ours.... its pretty useless actually, just means both factions pay the support costs for a unit that does nothing except cross the border every turn.

-Jam

If the invasion and occupation of AOE (or if you prefer CPU) goes like everyone has been suggesing then the conquered land will be a patchwork of Hive/Drone land.

Consider this example that assmes the Hive has conquered Longreach:

2158
Hive turn - (conquer Longreach, move chopper from Zeropolis [9 spaces] to Freedman's Park, turn over to Drones)

2159
CyCon's turn

Uni's turn

Pirates turn

Drones turn - (move chopper from Freedman's Park to Longreach [9 spaces], turn over to Hive.

Hive turn - use chopper to attack from Longreach.

The same technique will be available for our other units too.

We get our invasion force to the attack position much faster.

I really want to hit AOE/CPU (okay, I like AOE because it has a much more sinister sound to it and is valuable for propaganda) before they get DAP and are able to fully develop into a danger to us.

We should be able to do the transfer of control dance with the Drones without a complete union of the factions, but I am a little worried about turning a lot of our military over to the Drones every turn, trusting them to give it back to us the next.

Mead

Snowflake · February 7, 2004, 12:17

We may need to explore this a little bit for future combats (such as war against CCs) but I do not believe we need to for this one if we can complete our production as we planned.

Mead · February 8, 2004, 15:30

The CyCon (AOE) Empire, all the CyCon bases, all the Uni bases, and soon all the captured Peace bases have Airpower in 2157.

Time is running out. Why wait until it is too late.

Even with a true merged Drone/Hive Faction the fight against the AOE will not be easy.

I again renew my suggestion that the Hive and Drones unite our factions.

The longer we wait the more 'turn advantage' we give up.

Mead

Snowflake · February 8, 2004, 16:07

The only reason we might want to wait is that we don't want to tip them off before the war. Once we open the war I would think the time is mature for your suggestion.

Mead · February 8, 2004, 17:02

Quote:

Originally posted by HongHu
The only reason we might want to wait is that we don't want to tip them off before the war. Once we open the war I would think the time is mature for your suggestion.

OK, I agree it should not be effective until the war starts.

The impact will be strongest if we (Drones and Hive) publically announce the Unification the same time we launch our assault on the AOE.

We need to discuss the mechanics now to be ready to do the Unification then.

The following has to be done before a joining of our teams into a Superfaction:

1. Hive members have to decide whether and how to join with Drones.

2. Once that is done we must communicate to the Drones that we would like to merge our two factions into a Supefaction.

3. Drones have to get over the initial shock of the proposal (although maybe the suggestion of a joint faction is being considered by them right now, I do not know).

4. Then the Drones have to consider whether and how to join with the Hive.

5. Then we have to work out the details of the merger.

I suggest two counsuls (Voltaire and Buster) with democratic votes taken on important matters.

I think that we should concentrate the Drone division on tech matters, we should concentrate the Hive division on military matters. Perhaps we should concentrate them all on military right now to seize the moment.

Mead

Jamski · February 8, 2004, 20:36

I think that no matter how advantagous it may be in game terms, it will not be a good idea in RP or democracy terms.

At the moment we can play as the "good-guys" against the evil CyUni who are bending the rules of the game.

We can work together without letting the Drones into our private forum, and vice-versa.

-Jam