new capitalism vs communism thread

[Kuciwalker]

We haven't had one of these in a while...

My opening question for any communists is this: could you detail precisely how your system would work - explain the structure of the government and everything, and how it does what it does; don't just say "from each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs".

[yavoon]

I'd pick communism then invade my neighbors and imperialize the world while running a corrupt but bludgeoningly efficient central gov't.

[monkspider]

Hey Sky, what's up?

[Nubclear]

From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.

[asleepathewheel]

Unfortunately in my empire, I have to whip my population to speed the production of buildings and weapons, however, after I build my secret police HQ, my economy will be kicking at very swift rate. My citizens love me and never tire of battle I will rule the world with my iron fist

[Nubclear]

I go to visit the workers at each factory, but sometimes they are tired of working and demoralized, so I moralize them....I'll hold a lottery, and whoever gets chosen I kill in front of all the workers! Even on live TV!

It works wonders

[Spiffor]

Actually, I have stopped being imperialistic for some time now, and my communist empire is a beautiful and peaceful place in world filled with war and fascists

Too bad so many people require reeducation everytime infrastructure is needed. I especially feel bad about reeducating them from their religious supersticions when I'm precisely building a cathedral

[Nubclear]

DP. See better version below.

[Nubclear]

It's OK Spiff You do it for their own good

Long Live Comrade Spiffor!

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by skywalker

My opening question for any communists is this: could you detail precisely how your system would work - explain the structure of the government and everything, and how it does what it does;

Similarly, I'd like anyone to explain how true capitalism would work, and to explain why it has failed for 70% of humanity.

[yavoon]

comrade tassadar is sentenced for taking more posts than he needed.

20 years hard labour!

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by yavoon
comrade tassadar is sentenced for taking more posts than he needed.

20 years hard labour!

Comrade Yavoon has become very ill and has become bedridden.
It is OK, for Comrade Tassadar is here to show us the way.

Long live Comrade Tassadar! Long live the Socialist Party of the USA!

[Kuciwalker]

Could someone answer the question?

Similarly, I'd like anyone to explain how true capitalism would work, and to explain why it has failed for 70% of humanity.

Basically how it does in the US, which you must agree has been relatively successful.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


Similarly, I'd like anyone to explain how true capitalism would work, and to explain why it has failed for 70% of humanity.

workers of the world unite! join in the prosperity of the non-capitalist regimes!

[Spiffor]

How is the US "true capitalism"?

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by skywalker
Could someone answer the question?

Quote:

Similarly, I'd like anyone to explain how true capitalism would work, and to explain why it has failed for 70% of humanity.

Basically how it does in the US, which you must agree has been relatively successful.

disagree, the US economy has been built upon the backs of pinkos and former nazis, capitalists have done nothing but squander the riches. Ford? IBM? the JPL?

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor
How is the US "true capitalism"?

because we truly dislike commies!

hah!

[monkspider]

Why don't you answer the question Sky? You have the answer just the same as the rest of us.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by skywalker
Could someone answer the question?

Quote:

Similarly, I'd like anyone to explain how true capitalism would work, and to explain why it has failed for 70% of humanity.

Basically how it does in the US, which you must agree has been relatively successful.

No! You've now started OB on the "it's not 'real' capitalism if there are ANY rules whatsoever" argument! You have now sentenced us to long passages of pendantry and semantics, where OB will now argue that even laws against rape and murder violate the definition of "true capitalism".

Thanks, man. We really appreciate it.

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by skywalker

Basically how it does in the US, which you must agree has been relatively successful.

Actually, Imperialism was very successful for England. And even Nazism definitely could have been for Germany, had they taken the right decisions at the right time.

Sorry for fulfilling, once again, Goodwin's law.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by asleepathewheel


disagree, the US economy has been built upon the backs of pinkos and former nazis, capitalists have done nothing but squander the riches. Ford? IBM? the JPL?

You know, I don't even know what you're trying to say here...

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by JohnT



No! You've now started OB on the "it's not 'real' capitalism if there are ANY rules whatsoever" argument! You have now sentenced us to long passages of pendantry and semantics, where OB will now argue that even laws against rape and murder violate the definition of "true capitalism".

Thanks, man. We really appreciate it.

When I say 'true' capitalism, I usually think of it in the libertarian conception, which is clearly defined and does not require any semantic pedantry.

Shame on you but anyway because you're an amusing fellow.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by JohnT


You know, I don't even know what you're trying to say here...

he's saying he's a commie and that ur wrong. but even tho ur wrong ur system is built off ppl that agree w/ him.

so not only are u wrong, but the ppl u like don't agree w/ u! or something.

my guess is he's just a pinko tho

[JohnT]

I kind of understood that... but then he added the names of Ford, IBM, and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory as if the connection is obvious... and yet, it's not.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by JohnT
I kind of understood that... but then he added the names of Ford, IBM, and the Jet Propulsion Laboratory as if the connection is obvious... and yet, it's not.

Ford was built by a known sympathizer, IBM built crap for the Nazi's and the JPL was founded by the Nazi's



Sadly, it was meant to be a joke. Let me find the nearest bridge

[Arrian]

I don't think sleepy is a communist. EDIT: crosspost with Sleepy. I was right, even if I didn't quite get the joke.


However, in general, regarding this thread: NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I didn't see it.
I didn't post in it.
I, in fact, do not exist.

-Arrian

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by skywalker
could you detail precisely how your system would work - explain the structure of the government and everything, and how it does what it does.

I don't feel like writing a paper right now, but here are the big ideas:

1. My understanding of communism is different from other CPOA members. What I say is my idea of communism, not every commie's.

2. I advocate more a socialist economy with democratic institutions, rather than the idea of communism as advocated by Marx. I do not believe in any form of invisible hand, and Marx's communism does rely on it.

3. The main point behind a socialist economy is that the workers are the ones who have power in the company, NOT the shareholder. Basically, it means companies become democratic instead of despotic.
Now, you can have more or less efficient company institutions, differing according to each company's situation (mostly the size).

4. Some would advocate a "pure" socialist system, that can also be depicted as "anarcho-syndicalist": every company is held by its employees, and there is no overall economic authority to monitor all that. I oppose such a view that I deem extremistic.

5. Politics plays an important role in a socialist society. The State should have a strong (if not absolute) directional power in the affairs of general-interest companies. The State should also create economic opportunities for independent companies to use them, and it should avoid resources to be wasted by the private (yet worker-owned) part of the economy.
As a defender of the common interest and major supplier of resources, the State is very important in my model.

6. It is extremely important that the State is democratic. I'd pick a democratic capitalism over a despotic communism any day. Since communism or socialism is about giving the power back to the people, such a project is doomed to failure if any concession is made with authoritarianism.

7. Personal rights would be protected. People can own watches, fridges, cars, homes. But they can't own production means. The exception to that are monopersonal companies: they should be as free as one can get.

8. I don't believe in "to each according to his needs". A strictly flat income is the bast way to encourage sloth. OTOH, any sensible socialist State will not only reduce income disparities (since the workers in power will not accept their bosses getting millions while they earn a few dimes), but it should also have a strong safety net. But the extent of the safety net would be dictated by the will of the people.

[asleepathewheel]

Originally posted by Arrian
I don't think sleepy is a communist.

sadly no.

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I don't feel like writing a paper right now, but here are the big ideas:

situation (mostly the size).

earn a few dimes), but it should also have a strong safety net. But the extent of the safety net would be dictated by the will of the people.

will u trade w/ the more efficient capitalist pig dogs?

[Oncle Boris]

Spiffor: your outline makes lots of sense.