Russia plans nuclear wargame

[DRoseDARs]

Pretty good, actually...



Diss, is there something you'd like to share with the rest of the class?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Good news

You people are such hypocrites, it's amazing. But I won't lower myself to your level and claim that this is against the rogue states or so.

Why? Haven't you enjoyed the break from the ever present threat of global thermal-nuclear warfare?

I know I have.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by Dissident
any one else open up this thread hoping some russian computer game company was designing a cool new computer game where you can wipe out civilization in a very graphic way?

No. It's only such an innocent soul as you, Diss.

[notyoueither]

What if something goes wrong during that excercise with aging equipment, and a missile is actually launched? Do we all think the US Strategic Forces would simply wait to see if it is a dud?

My God, this madness was supposed to end 14 years ago. For the love of all of us, leave it buried.

[Dis]

well we can't stop it. So we may as well see if it actually destroys a city. If it destroys a city, then we retaliate.

Now if all the missiles are launched at us, we can't afford to wait and see, as that would comprimise our retaliation capabilities. We would be forced to launch.

[notyoueither]

Think about it, Diss. A missile launched. How long til a response? Impact? I don't think so, and I don't think the US government regards the Russians now as more stable than the Soviets.

One missile launches, more like the President receives advice that it is time to end the charade and win the contest. Retaliatory First Strike. Eliminate all possible future launches.

This is the madness that we lived with for 40 years. This is the madness that I grew up with. I do not want my nephews and their children to have to deal with it.

[DRoseDARs]

You assume they'd survive the aftermath...

[notyoueither]

You've bought your first clue, DRo, no one survives the aftermath. No one wins. Yippee!

Isn't this game fvcking fun?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why? Haven't you enjoyed the break from the ever present threat of global thermal-nuclear warfare?

I know I have.

And you'll continue enjoying it. This is just an exercise, although not without a political component, of course.

As for possible accidents, Russia is an old nuclear power and has proved itself to the world. Besides, the exercise won't involve nukes AFAIK, it will be just with missiles.

[notyoueither]

Why then wake up old ghosts of all out nuclear warfare? The only possible target is the US and its allies. You expect the US to relax on the trigger?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Why then wake up old ghosts of all out nuclear warfare?

Nuclear forces are vital for Russia's security. With its army currently in disarray, Russia is simply unable to defend itself conventionally.

The only possible target is the US and its allies.

You shouldn't have attacked Yugoslavia.

You expect the US to relax on the trigger?

No. But the US doesn't seem to be quite relaxed on the trigger anyway.

[notyoueither]

Well, hell. If the threat of all human life on Earth being wiped out makes it easier for you to get through your day, then by all means, take us back to the brink.

I'm sure you and the rest of the Russias will be thanked.

[notyoueither]

Oh, and should the Congress of the United States have been anywhere close to questioning the continued expediture on strategic nuclear forces, thank God you've given the US arms industry ample ammunition to keep the ball rolling on global extiguishment of human life forms. That is a truely great goal, afterall.

[The Vagabond]

You by far overdramatize it, NYE.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Nuclear forces are vital for Russia's security. With its army currently in disarray, Russia is simply unable to defend itself conventionally.

Against whom? The Poles? Watch it, they're about ready to come pouring across that border.

Or are you about to start nuking former Soviet Republics and regions who prove too pesky?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
You by far overdramatize it, NYE.

Not from the POV of a sane person who lived through the last round of Mutual Assured Insanity.

[notyoueither]

Oh, and btw, you think the US Congress is going to cut back funds to American nuclear forces while your regime is rattling its sabre?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither




Against whom? The Poles? Watch it, they're about ready to come pouring across that border.

Someone attacked Yugoslavia a few years ago. Could you remind me who it was, NYE?

Or are you about to start nuking former Soviet Republics and regions who prove too pesky?

Well, perhaps. If the number of Western puppet regimes exceeds the critical mass.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Oh, and btw, you think the US Congress is going to cut back funds to American nuclear forces while your regime is rattling its sabre?

The US Congress is not going to cut back military spending anyway, no matter what.

By the way, it's not quite correct to call a democratically elected government a regime.

[notyoueither]

You honestly think that the US has Russia as a target for military action?

I would think that the remotest possibility that one of your ICBMs could actually function would put the kibosh to that. Maybe it's just me, but maybe there is a reason that North Korea still has gulags while Beijing and Washington are tip-toeing all around that black hole of human rights abuses.

What do you think, does Russia need to embark on reckless courses of adventure to be left alone, or do you think that your own innate power and the fact that it is better to have you as friends rather than enemies should grease your way into the rest of the developed world?

Where is the need for MAD?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
The US Congress is not going to cut back military spending anyway, no matter what.

By the way, it's not quite correct to call a democratically elected government a regime.

Hey, you say 'western puppet' regime and insist on continuing the insanity of 30 years ago, I'll call yours a regime. It strikes me as little less than fanatical devotion to some past glory that can end in no good for yours or anyone else.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by The Vagabond
Someone attacked Yugoslavia a few years ago. Could you remind me who it was, NYE?

He obviously doesn't want to be sidetracked off the point so I'll answer. In case you had forgotten, the Yugoslavs started killing each other. Murdering civilians because of their ethnic origin is called genocide. Are you proud that Russia stood aside and covertly backed the Serbs in this?

[CerberusIV]

Is the real reason for an excercise targeting the US that the Russian missile guidance systems are in such a state that they can't be reset to point anywhere else?

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
You honestly think that the US has Russia as a target for military action?

I don't think so. At least not an immediate one. But who knows what is going to happen if one becomes too weak. Well, actually, the Yugoslavia example can be helpful in drawing some conclusions. Besides, things are constantly being balanced on different levels, with the balance shifting one way or another, well before the extreme situation when one becomes an immediate target occurs.

I would think that the remotest possibility that one of your ICBMs could actually function would put the kibosh to that. Maybe it's just me, but maybe there is a reason that North Korea still has gulags while Beijing and Washington are tip-toeing all around that black hole of human rights abuses.

That simply shows that force is respected (not that I am sympathetic to NK in any way).

What do you think, does Russia need to embark on reckless courses of adventure to be left alone, or do you think that your own innate power and the fact that it is better to have you as friends rather than enemies should grease your way into the rest of the developed world?

Reckless adventure? You overdramatize. As for your question, I'd say that Russia should be perceived as being able to defend herself if she wants to have friends and grease her way into the developed world.

Where is the need for MAD?

I wouldn't say MAD. But there is a need for a balance.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
It strikes me as little less than fanatical devotion to some past glory that can end in no good for yours or anyone else.

It's not as much devotion to some past glory as it is a present-day security issue.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


He obviously doesn't want to be sidetracked off the point so I'll answer. In case you had forgotten, the Yugoslavs started killing each other. Murdering civilians because of their ethnic origin is called genocide. Are you proud that Russia stood aside and covertly backed the Serbs in this?

I wouldn't like to slide into a discussion of the Yugoslavian conflict either (not now). I just alluded to it as an example of how one can get attacked if too weak.

[notyoueither]

I don't think I over-dramatise. All it takes is one mistake, one **** up between the US and Russia, and kiss good bye to 6 billion human beings. The fact that you think the appearance of your own cahones warrants risking it tells me a lot about your abilities to coexist in the developed world, at least if you are representative.

It is too bad. So many people in the West thought so much of the possibility of actual freindship with Russia when the Wall came down and in the aftermath.

It is really too bad if all that is wasted on the funeral pire of wasted national ambitions.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by CerberusIV
Is the real reason for an excercise targeting the US that the Russian missile guidance systems are in such a state that they can't be reset to point anywhere else?

Funny joke. It should be submitted to a Russian anecdote site.

[The Vagabond]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I don't think I over-dramatise.

Yes, you don't over-dramatise, you over-dramatize!

All it takes is one mistake, one **** up between the US and Russia, and kiss good bye to 6 billion human beings. The fact that you think the appearance of your own cahones warrants risking it tells me a lot about your abilities to coexist in the developed world, at least if you are representative.

What do you suggest? To disband nuclear forces? If they exist, should they hold an exercise from time to time? Such a mistake is much less likely now than it was during the Cold War. Again, sorry, I can't help but think that you over-dramatize.

It is too bad. So many people in the West thought so much of the possibility of actual freindship with Russia when the Wall came down and in the aftermath.

Yes, too bad. So many people in Russia thought the same, and not only thought, but also sacrificed a lot for this goal.

But this is still remains possible.

It is really too bad if all that is wasted on the funeral pire of wasted national ambitions.

Yes, it is. But those ambitions aren't only Russia's.

[Saras]

--"So many people in Russia thought the same, and not only thought, but also sacrificed a lot for this goal. "

Well, obviously NOT the people in your government.