California voters: Do you support prop 57 and 58? - Page 9

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 22:49

Quote:

Originally posted by rev
Giancarlo, nobody here is suggesting that being gay and doing drugs are the same. You're absolutely right: they're NOT the same. Being gay isn't a choice; doing drugs is.

Thank you for proving my point.

You can now pass go and collect your $200 dollars.

Quote:

You'd put people to death for causing others no harm.

Has to do with proving a point. People cannot smoke drugs and we have to make examples to scare the weak people who do it away from the habit. People who use illicit drugs are weak.

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 22:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo
People who use illicit drugs are weak.

So are handicapped people. Should they die too?

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 22:54

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBaggins

So are handicapped people. Should they die too?

No. They don't use illicit drugs. Remember I am setting an example of illicit drugs here.

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 22:56

So its just weakness as it applies to Illicit drugs. Why does the legality of the drug have any bearing?

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 22:58

So you are saying what is the use of having any laws?

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 23:00

No... I'm wondering what the physical difference is between a legal and an illegal drug, that makes illegal drugs cause for death.

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:01

Illegal drugs = illegal.

Harmful.

Illegal drug possession = Hefty Prison sentence/Execution

Clear enough?

Ned · February 26, 2004, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia

well good, cuz im not a democrat either. and i dont think you are anywhere close to being libertarian.

I would like to know why you believe I do not believe in liberty.

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 23:03

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Illegal drugs = illegal.

Harmful.

Illegal drug possession = Hefty Prison sentence/Execution

Clear enough?

Illegal isn't a psychical property. Its a legal property.

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:04

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBaggins

Illegal isn't a psychical property. Its a legal property.

And what is wrong with law? Shall we live in anarchy? Go ahead.. move to Somalia if you want that.

rev · February 26, 2004, 23:05

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo

Has to do with proving a point. People cannot smoke drugs and we have to make examples to scare the weak people who do it away from the habit. People who use illicit drugs are weak.

And those who are in agreement with sodomy laws believe that people who engage in sodomy are "weak".

Should it be their choice whom you have sex with?

Scaring heroin addicts by putting fellow addicts to death isn't going to break the addiction: openness, honesty, and compassion will help break such an addiction.

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:07

No. Draconian laws and tough action will cause them to end their addiction.

And as for sodomy laws, how the hell is me taking it you know where weak?

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 23:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo

And what is wrong with law? Shall we live in anarchy? Go ahead.. move to Somalia if you want that.

Nothing wrong with law... it just doesn't tell you anything about the physical property of something. Just the legality of it.

rev · February 26, 2004, 23:07

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo

And what is wrong with law? Shall we live in anarchy? Go ahead.. move to Somalia if you want that.

Hey, you want to change it, too. If you want to hang people for smoking marijuana... go ahead... move to Singapore if you want that.

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:10

Hey I like Singapore.. they make a lot of electronics and stuff there and they got big buildings. Somalia doesn't have that.

rev · February 26, 2004, 23:10

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo
And as for sodomy laws, how the hell is me taking it you know where weak?

I'm just turning the tables around, trying to put things in perspective. In my opinion, it's not weak at ALL (especially compared to those who are in denial and DON'T know where they want to take it

). I think you should be able to do whatever you want.

But there are many who view homosexuality as a disease, or a blight on humanity, just as you view drug use. In my opinion, it shouldn't even be up for debate -- government shouldn't be looking behind closed doors unless there's a victim.

rev · February 26, 2004, 23:11

... and they cane you for spitting on the street.

People in Singapore aren't free.

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:12

Quote:

Originally posted by rev

I'm just turning the tables around, trying to put things in perspective. In my opinion, it's not weak at ALL (especially compared to those who are in denial and DON'T know where they want to take it

). I think you should be able to do whatever you want.

But there are many who view homosexuality as a disease, or a blight on humanity, just as you view drug use. In my opinion, it shouldn't even be up for debate -- government shouldn't be looking behind closed doors unless there's a victim.

Okay I will ease my views on marijuana. (In fact I have.. but I like getting a reaction out of you because I like you)

I know where exactly I want it...

But lets not go there.

I will just back off right now... I'm feeling a bit higher in spirits right now. I'll admit it right now. I am addicted to chocolate. And three chocolate bars have got me on a higher note.

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 23:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Giancarlo
Hey I like Singapore.. they make a lot of electronics and stuff there and they got big buildings. Somalia doesn't have that.

Stop ducking the question.

You were the one stressing the importance of laws. The law doesn't state that illegal drug use should be punishable by death.

What makes your opinion so special that this law be changed to reflect that?

rev · February 26, 2004, 23:15

Oh, and just for reference, check this site out:

http://www.gaytimes.co.uk/gt/default...ry&country=852

"Under Section 377 "carnal intercourse against the order of nature" with any man, woman or animal, is imprisonable for a life term, or for a term up to ten years. Under Section 377A "acts of gross indecency" between males is punishable with up to 2 years imprisonment. Enforcement of these laws is routinely carried by entrapment using decoy officers."

Giancarlo · February 26, 2004, 23:17

Ummm.. a S'porean friend of mine said they eased laws on homosexuals in recent years.

MrBaggins · February 26, 2004, 23:21

Yep.. a bit like Texas sodomy laws, I bet... on the books, but not enforced, necessarily... unless they want to find a reason to.

CharlesBHoff · February 27, 2004, 21:37

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBaggins
Yep.. a bit like Texas sodomy laws, I bet... on the books, but not enforced, necessarily... unless they want to find a reason to.

Some Historian help get the US hight Court to declare Texas Sodney law unconstitution is they disappove the claim that thought history that law where pass to punich homosexual. The 8th century cannan law have nothing to do with homesexual but with the failture to get than woman pregant every time you have sex with you wife. If outlaw any sexual act that doesnot get your wife pregeant where time you have sex with her and all acts are unnatural. It these act where unnatural there would be no needed for just laws. The Hight court ask the Vacation in Rome about that law than the vacat answer they have than hard time understand what that law meant as it was poorly written.

In America history antosodney laws where more use in divorse case by the woman saying her hushand have unnature sex with her up you know where. Also oral sex between than man and woman can be cover by than anti-sodney law. Not all culture in man history have law homosexual.

CharlesBHoff · February 27, 2004, 22:39

Quote:

Originally posted by rev
My recent-girlfriend (who's still a friend, we're just seperated by a thousand miles) spent most of her life in Saudi Arabia. Bootlegging (illegal alcohol) is common and strongly linked with drug sales (so alcohol there is the 'gateway drug'). Those who are rich enough just drive out to a nearby country to drink and party, much like teens in southern California (and, indeed, much of the US) do with Tijuana, Mexico.

Alcohol is the most damgous drug of all it does more harm to than person mind and body. I saw the effect first hand on my father an that is one reason I never drank alcohol that much. If drinking alcohol was than new discover as than drug it would have being ban as being more damgous than heron.

Ned · February 28, 2004, 05:19

Quote:

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff

Some Historian help get the US hight Court to declare Texas Sodney law unconstitution is they disappove the claim that thought history that law where pass to punich homosexual. The 8th century cannan law have nothing to do with homesexual but with the failture to get than woman pregant every time you have sex with you wife. If outlaw any sexual act that doesnot get your wife pregeant where time you have sex with her and all acts are unnatural. It these act where unnatural there would be no needed for just laws. The Hight court ask the Vacation in Rome about that law than the vacat answer they have than hard time understand what that law meant as it was poorly written.

THAT is very interesting -- especially the part about consulting the Vatican. Is that in the case?

Does anyone have a link. I would be very interested in seeing the Vatican's position on this issue.

Ned · February 28, 2004, 05:21

Quote:

Originally posted by CharlesBHoff

Alcohol is the most damgous drug of all it does more harm to than person mind and body. I saw the effect first hand on my father an that is one reason I never drank alcohol that much. If drinking alcohol was than new discover as than drug it would have being ban as being more damgous than heron.

Dittos.

Both my parents became alcoholics in their final years. It was very unpleasant to be around them. Very.

CharlesBHoff · February 28, 2004, 10:29

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned

THAT is very interesting -- especially the part about consulting the Vatican. Is that in the case?

Does anyone have a link. I would be very interested in seeing the Vatican's position on this issue.

Some conver are angry that the Hight court consult the vatican on that old Cannon law as many anti-homosexual use it in they legal breif for than long time in trial before the court on anti-sodney law. Our founding father want our court to consult with other courts around the world on legal matter. Once they consult with than Islamist court on Estate matter before then as the Court didnot know Islamist law on this case. Than unmuslim trying to make legal touble for than Muslim familty over than Islamist will our court finalty rule Islamist will legal.

Ned · February 28, 2004, 21:00

Charles, no doubt the Vatican is the authority on Cannonical Law. I am just surprised that they came out with the position that sodomy was not a banned sexual practice in the eyes of the Church.

CharlesBHoff · February 29, 2004, 20:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Ned
Charles, no doubt the Vatican is the authority on Cannonical Law. I am just surprised that they came out with the position that sodomy was not a banned sexual practice in the eyes of the Church.

The orginate text was in latin than they cover so much ground that than hushand kissing his wife on the lip could have being consider sodney and the court ask about the wording of law.

Lawrence of Arabia · February 29, 2004, 22:32

Quote:

I would like to know why you believe I do not believe in liberty.

sure. you support the war in iraq, you're against abortion, you're for social security, against immigration, for the death penalty, against gay marriage, against polygamy, against incest, for the drug war, against legalization of all drugs, for the patriot act, and you support bush, one of the biggest liberty takers of them all.