DnD assistance

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 18:11

I can't calculate XP for the life of me, and neither can the GM

ok, two standard Wargs against 2x6, 1x3, 4x5 (number x level)

what does that come out to be?

please step me through it

also 3 owlbears versus 2x6, 4x5

what do thes come out to be?

JOn Miller

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 18:13

go double posts

Jon Miller

alva · February 18, 2004, 18:17

Posts!!!!! How 'bout threads

rah · February 18, 2004, 18:18

Other threads deleted.

I'm really hoping that was an accident.

Jamski · February 18, 2004, 18:23

OK, the Wargs are with an average party level of 5
The Owlbears are against an average party level of 5 too.

What is the challenge rating and standard EXP for the monsters?

The

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 19:07

you were who I was hoping for

CRs of Wargs are ~2 (maybe 3)

the owlbears are 3 maybe 4

there is a table to calculate expereince but I don't know how to use it (or the average party level part)

there are three of us who sorta know the rules, and we all make different calculations on it (with end numbers of XP of ~900 to ~3000)

JOn Miller

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 19:07

I guessI should say, 3.5 rules

JOn Miller

Jamski · February 18, 2004, 19:09

Well, if the challenge rating is within 2 of the average party level use the standard EXP value. That's not the exact value but I don't have the tables in front of me.

Hold on... I'll look it up properly

-Jam

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 19:25

but they are groups

doesn't that change things?

and what about us being a big group?

doesn't that change something

go over everything careulfly

(also how would a group of enemies work where there were several CR 1/3s as well as some CR 2s)

Jonn Miller

Jamski · February 18, 2004, 19:36

You look at each enemy. For instance a 25th level char fighting a CR 25 dragon and 400 goblins would get the full EXP for the dragon and none for each goblin.

-Jam

Skanky Burns · February 18, 2004, 19:52

Quote:

Originally posted by rah
Other threads deleted.

I'm really hoping that was an accident.

I don't think your post-count increases when you start a thread, so there wouldn't be much benefit for starting multiple ones.

Jamski · February 18, 2004, 19:53

Ok, I can't find the dammed book, but this is how it works.

Take the AVERAGE level of your party and round down. This is the "party level"
Take the CR of each monster individually and compare it with the "party level" - If it is more than 7 lower, then give no EXP. If it is the same give standard EXP, if it is higher, more EXP.
Blah, blah, blah... GM decides on EXP rewards...
Divide the EXP evenly between the group members at the end of the encounter.

-Jam

Jon Miller · February 18, 2004, 20:17

Quote:

Originally posted by Jamski
You look at each enemy. For instance a 25th level char fighting a CR 25 dragon and 400 goblins would get the full EXP for the dragon and none for each goblin.

-Jam

definitely wrong

there is sometihng called EL (encounter lelve), makes sense acutally (it is a lot harder to find 9 orcs at once (at level 3 for example) than to fight the 9 orcs one orc at a time

JOn Miller

SnowFire · February 18, 2004, 22:41

I say just have the DM make up the XP. Fighting monsters shouldn't be your main source of XP anyway; solving problems should.

That said, I think Jamski is correct... for normal monsters. It's for enemy humans that the rules you refer to, JM, come into effect. For classed enemies, their CR is their (average) level, and every doubling of adversaries adds two to the EL. So a 6th level character is EL 6; a 5th & an 7th level character are EL 8; and a 5th, 5th, 6th, and 9th level character is a little more than EL 10.

Of course these numbers are ridiculous, because they don't take into account any special equipment or magic, the battle setting, etc. But that's what's canonical, at least.

DarkCloud · February 18, 2004, 23:20

Well, there are some XP calculators on the net, one of the members in my D and D group downloaded one- but basically we usually just do what SnowFire suggests, make up XP... and actually, wev'e degenerated past that- now we're just at the point where I point at someone and tell them that he's leveled up

Urban Ranger · February 19, 2004, 00:06

I don't think you should get XP solely by killing off critters. That's just silly. Besides, a level 25 fighter fighting 400 goblins who mob him all at once is going to be one very dead fighter.

Jon Miller · February 19, 2004, 00:09

well, I see as it providing fighting experince (or the like)

it probably shouldn't be the only source of experince, but being a part definitely makes sense

Jon Miller

Urban Ranger · February 19, 2004, 00:13

Sure, combat should be part of the whole thing, but it shouldn't be the whole thing.

Jon Miller · February 19, 2004, 03:38

Quote:

Originally posted by SnowFire
I say just have the DM make up the XP. Fighting monsters shouldn't be your main source of XP anyway; solving problems should.

That said, I think Jamski is correct... for normal monsters. It's for enemy humans that the rules you refer to, JM, come into effect. For classed enemies, their CR is their (average) level, and every doubling of adversaries adds two to the EL. So a 6th level character is EL 6; a 5th & an 7th level character are EL 8; and a 5th, 5th, 6th, and 9th level character is a little more than EL 10.

Of course these numbers are ridiculous, because they don't take into account any special equipment or magic, the battle setting, etc. But that's what's canonical, at least.

I don't think so since I don't think that there are any 1/3 level human enemies (3 1/3 level enemies are some EL)

JM

Jon Miller · February 19, 2004, 03:40

unless someone can make it clear to me soon, I will tell him (the GM) to just pull some number out of a hat

Jon Miler

Urban Ranger · February 19, 2004, 04:09

That sounds like a good idea.

When I was a DM I fudged all the time.

Jamski · February 19, 2004, 04:19

Well, for normal monsters I was right. Otherwise just either

a)Most groups ditch CR and award the base EXP for every monster regardless of party level, or
b)Get the GM to award EXP as he sees fit.
c)CR is the only really sucky thing about 3ed, and noone really can be arsed with it.

-Jam

Grumbold · February 19, 2004, 10:12

Taken from WOTC forums:

**********Section 2: XP, CR, ECLs**********

Q: How much XP is critter ; worth?

A: In 3rd Ed., PCs do not receive flat amounts of XP for defeating a given monster (as was the case in previous editions). Instead the value for defeating a monster is based on it's Challenge Rating (CR) compared to the level of the PCs. Full information is given on pages 165-167 of the Dungeon Master's Guide. In general, a party that defeats a monster of CR equal to the party level will receive and amount of XP equal to 300 x the CR (divided amongst the party members), while a lower level party will receive a greater amount of XP for defeating the same monster and a higher level party will receive a smaller amount of XP.

Q: How does the CR (Challenge Rating) system work ?

A: A single monster of CR or group of monsters with total Encounter Level (EL) is a good fight for a typical party of four level ; adventurers. In general, it is assumed that such a fight will exhaust about 20% of the party's total resources (HPs, spells, limited use magic items, etc.). See pages 100-103 and 165-167 of the DMG for further details.

Q: How do I calculate the EL for encounters involving different types of monsters?

A: In general (for monsters of CR 1 or greater) two monsters of the same CR working together have a combined Encounter Level of that CR+2, four monsters of the same CR working together have a combined Encounter Level of that CR+4, eight monsters of the same CR working together have a combined Encounter Level of that CR+6 and so on. Also in general two monsters of close but not equal CRs working together have a combined Encounter Level of the higher CR+1.
However, if the monsters have individual CRs of less than 1, the math is different.
In general, for a creature with a CR of 1/6, 8 of them are a CR 1 encounter
See pages 101-103 and 165-167 of the Dungeon Master's Guide for a more complete explanation. Pay special attention to the Encounter Numbers chart on page 101 and the guidelines for Modifying Encounter Levels on page 167.

Q: How do I calculate the CR for advanced monsters?

A: The Challenge rating note at the bottom of page 14 of the Monster Manual states that the CR for a monster advanced by hit dice does not change, but that the experience point award increases by the same ratio as the increase in HD. There is however errata to this which states that each doubling of the creature's HD increase the creature's CR by 2 and that each 50% increase in the creature's HD increases the creature's CR by 1. This results in the same amount of XP as would be awarded by doing it the way mentioned in the MM, but no longer implies that an advanced creature is a fair fight for PCs who are on par with the base creature.

Jamski · February 19, 2004, 10:16

Play 2nd Edition instead. Or just use arbitary EXP amounts.

-Jam

Jon Miller · February 19, 2004, 10:19

things grumbold, I might be able to figure that out

2nd edition is interesting, but one of the inital 3 people (2 players and the GM) would only play 3 so we are playinh 3.5

Jon Miller

Jamski · February 19, 2004, 10:26

You can still give EXP as in 2nd edition. Convert CR to EXP by a 300 fold multiplication.

-Jam

Grumbold · February 19, 2004, 10:32

Applying those rules as I understand them:

2 Wargs:
CL3 monster, +2 for two of them = encounter level 5.

That would be a standard encounter for 4 5th level characters. Your party consists of 7 characters of average 5th level. Unless the DMG gives guidance about adjusting your party level upwards because of its size, you'll each get 1/7th of the XP listed in the DMG for an EC5 v Party level 5 encounter.

3 owlbears versus 2x6, 4x5

Assuming CL 4 owlbears:
CL4 monster, +3 for three of them = encounter level 7.

Party level is still 5, so you get 1/6 of the experience awarded in the DMG for an EL 7 vs Party level 5 encounter.

If the referee considers that you are getting too much experience this way then they may choose to rate your party as one or more levels higher because there are more of you.

Jamski · February 19, 2004, 10:37

The EXP is divided between more people so it balances out, I thought?

-Jam

Jon Miller · February 19, 2004, 10:54

hmm

ok how about this

since there are 6 of us, we get +2 to our character level to determine things

so like a 7 (this I am pretty sure is not in the rules, but makes sense, than if there are 3 of you you would subtract 1)

compared to a 7, I like it

JOn Miller

Grumbold · February 19, 2004, 10:58

From memory the table is weighted. The three owlbears came to EL 7, which I believe will award a considerable bonus of XP if tackled by a party of level 5. Yet the extra EL was because there were more owlbears for a standard size party to tackle. Since the party is larger it could be rated higher too.

Edit: you beat me to it. Yes I think a ref could consider you PL 5,6 or 7 depending on whether they were running a fast or slow levelling game. I would have thought the DMG would at least have some advice on this.