WarCraft 3 - better than StarCraft :-)

bakalov · February 24, 2004, 05:26

This is the new all purpose Warcraft3 thread

If there is a StarCraft thread then there should be a WarCraft 3 one, because it is a better game

DrSpike · February 24, 2004, 05:59

Hehe I agree, though at present I have given it (MP) up, again. It just takes too much time to play per day when you get up to the high levels.

Grumbold · February 24, 2004, 07:03

What are you smoking?

Warcraft 3 is worse than Starcraft and Warcraft 1&2

Skanky Burns · February 24, 2004, 07:43

I finished the Starcraft single-player campaigns.
I can't say the same for Warcraft 3.

bakalov · February 24, 2004, 08:41

I can say that I finished both Starcraft and Warcraft 3, and Warcraft 3 is definitely better, especially for MP.
In Starcraft there are only units, and all strategies are "build as much as you can from unit type 1 or types 1 and 2". WarCraft3 offers much greater variety that include heroes, items and creeping besides the units.

DrSpike · February 24, 2004, 09:36

Yeah WC3 is better, and it should be. However if it wants to gain the reputation of BW as a balanced game with a world pro circuit more needs to be done yet.

What level are you Bakalov?

bipolarbear · February 24, 2004, 16:57

of course it is! Star craft was terible, but it is unfair to compare such a good concept to such a bad one.

bakalov · February 25, 2004, 05:58

Dr Spike, I have only a few games on b-net (5 victories and 5 loses I think), but I have played hundreds of games on LAN. This is because our firewall here does not allow connection to battle net and I play in there only from a friend's office .... One of my victories was against one of the best players on the server where I played, and I'm very proud of it :-) It was on 2vs2 though.

I play with NE/Priestess of the Moon, 2nd Keeper. I know that the best players of NE use Demon Hunter or Keeper of the grove, but I like to be somehow different :-) I use two barracks (AoWs) and only a single gold mine. Mostly I build Archers, Huntresses and Ballistas (they use the same upgrades).

What race/style do you (or anyone else) play? I'm waiting for comments ....

Adagio · February 25, 2004, 06:04

Warcraft 3 versus Starcraft? Where exactly is the competition? Warcraft 3 wins easily... but of course, Starcraft is the worst RTS game I've ever played...

DrSpike · February 25, 2004, 07:09

Priestess first is dubious, except in the NE mirror. Showtime (a famous player) often goes with her first in that case. Dual 'rax is good V orcs but I'm not sure on the other matchups. A straight or quick tech to master level bears is the most difficult NE strat to beat as humans.

I used Orcs and Humans when I played competitively.

alva · February 25, 2004, 07:25

Quote:

What are you smoking?

bakalov · February 25, 2004, 10:11

Why the Priestess is good vs night elves? Now entangle stops the starfall, so NE has protection against it. But this is not my main reason to play with her - the trueshot aura is what I like most.

What strats do you use as a human? I have friends humans that use Archmage and Blood mage to cast blizzard and fire storm on the same spot (quite devastating). Paladin itself is a very strong hero. The humans have excellent spellcaters for slow, inner fire and dispel ... I just haven't played enough with them, though they seem to be an interesting race too ....

General Ludd · February 25, 2004, 11:40

Quote:

Originally posted by DrSpike
It just takes too much time to play per day when you get up to the high levels.

It's actually a time saver - you get to play Diablo and Starcraft at the same time!

DrSpike · February 25, 2004, 14:01

Quote:

Originally posted by bakalov
Why the Priestess is good vs night elves? Now entangle stops the starfall, so NE has protection against it. But this is not my main reason to play with her - the trueshot aura is what I like most.

What strats do you use as a human? I have friends humans that use Archmage and Blood mage to cast blizzard and fire storm on the same spot (quite devastating). Paladin itself is a very strong hero. The humans have excellent spellcaters for slow, inner fire and dispel ... I just haven't played enough with them, though they seem to be an interesting race too ....

Priestess first is usually too weak, even though she has a nice aura. If I see her first as Orc or Human I chuckle. Try going with her second after a dh, or maybe Beastmaster (although naga is usually second hero in both cases, or keeper with no taverns). You'll need reasonably major tier one to make it worthwhile, but you can kick archers from one rax whilst teching in reasonable speed to dotts for fairie fire, and maybe bears as meat shield. Dual rax is often questionable IMO on the ladder maps unless its 2 rivers; good players will just tech to better units whilst harassing or creeping. If you do it you need to attack early enough and do enough damage to justify expending those resources on tier 1.

As human versus elf I go rifles/priests/breakers/knights at tier 3. Most annoying elf strat is harass and tech to bears. If you aren't comfortable with that go with some tier 1 units and creep whilst teching.

Paladin sucks versus night elf, with the archmage always first hero and the other 2 both good backup heroes the paladin only really makes an appearance as 3rd hero against other humans, where tier 3 is usually reached quite early. Personally I prefer the MK to the bloodmage, and definitely so versus elf. Bloodmage is killer with slow, but you can't go sorcs versus elf because the fairie dragons are too strong a counter.

Hope that helps.

Frankychan · February 25, 2004, 19:38

Shoot, I wish you could play the Naga.

I'm an Undead player (that sucks). Basics are to use banshee's, then possess the strongest enemy unit they have. Causes chaos.

St Leo · February 25, 2004, 22:39

Warlords Battlecry II >>> WarCraft III
Total Annihilation >>> StarCraft

bakalov · February 26, 2004, 06:12

Hi, DrSpike,
I agree that priestess is weak, but she usually stays behind, and can easily runa away. You usually can invest in a Periapt of vitality to make her stronger. I agree that the other heroes probably are better, though. I just like to have a different playstyle :-)

Why you do not include some griffins and/or mortars in your army? I think that having some artillery units in the army is a must. I think that besides the heavy damage, they cause chaos like Frankychan suggested :-)

DrSpike · February 26, 2004, 07:59

Both have their place, though I don't like going heavy air versus a race with a strong air counter. And gryphons are tier3 of course. Versus orcs they sometimes get built, usually after some dragonhawks.

Mortar generally isn't worth investing in a workshop when you can kick rifles and casters. Exception is versus elf with bears/dryads, where I find straight rifles/casters less effective.

bakalov · February 26, 2004, 09:44

Hehe I think I could play along with you :-) I like when my human ally makes riflemen because they benefit from my trueshot aura ....
But you must not underestimate the power of siege weapons vs unarmored units - they really tear them apart - huge damage + huge bonus damage vs unarmored - and you see lots of large blood spots everywhere.

bipolarbear · February 27, 2004, 00:52

How aboot Warcraft II vs. the almighty pile of excriment satrcraft?

bipolarbear · February 29, 2004, 22:05

OK fine I'll be the first to say something. WARCRAFT II starcraft falls to everything Even all of those crappy Sim City games.

Sava · March 1, 2004, 10:28

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumbold
What are you smoking?

Warcraft 3 is worse than Starcraft and Warcraft 1&2

I agree... Starcraft is the ultimate in RTS. No game has surpassed it. RoN has come close... but fails in replay value. Warcraft 3 is just stupid... I suppose the Everquest fanboy crowd will love it, but true strategy fans will stick with the best: STARCRAFT!

I'd even go so far as to say Starcraft is the best PC game to date.

bakalov · March 1, 2004, 11:58

Hehehe - there is nothing "clever" to do in Starcraft, and if you call the more complex Warcraft "stupid" this means that you just don't have the potential to understand it.

bakalov · March 1, 2004, 12:00

P. S. I don't smoke anything. And I haven't smoked anything ever :P

Zero · March 7, 2004, 17:25

Quote:

Originally posted by bakalov
Hehehe - there is nothing "clever" to do in Starcraft, and if you call the more complex Warcraft "stupid" this means that you just don't have the potential to understand it.

WTF WTF WTF WTF. (HEAD EXPLODES)

I'll Send j00 some SC replays and you TELL ME after watchign taht **** that SC isnt complex.

Theres friggin TWO, not one TWo channels dedicated to pure starcraft strategy in korea. WC3? Its fun and it has depth in its own way (I like the addition of heros. it changes alot of things) but I dont see it having 2 hardcore strat channels for WC3 anytime soon, nor I dont imagine it being played 5-6 years from now...

Zero · March 7, 2004, 17:32

When u guys are dissing SC...

Is it:

1. u guys *****ing about some lame personal preference that has no place in arguing why SC sux cause it doesnt apply to like 99.9% of the population?

OR

2. All yall are scrubs and cant get a single win on b.net?

vmxa1 · March 7, 2004, 18:17

I hope you are right about it being a better game. If it is I am going to be mad at myself as I bought it day 1 and still have not played it.

SC was a great game, but then so was Warcraft.

Jamski · March 7, 2004, 19:30

Quote:

Warlords Battlecry II >>> WarCraft III

AMEN StLeo AMEN!!!!!

There is no greater RTs game ever made.

And noone has even heard of it except us two

-Jam

DrSpike · March 7, 2004, 19:31

SC is iconic, but WC3 will be played 6 years for now for sure. Already many of the big Blizz RTS gamers have switched, and more and more of the big money tourneys are emphasising WC3 over SC. Soon those Korean TV channels will be switched or at least matched. WC3 is still waiting for 'the' patch........once that arrives the last resistance will crumble.

Jamski · March 7, 2004, 19:42

It may be popular, but it really lacks the depth of WBC2, sorry Spike.

-Jam