Energy Park - Page 2

Ogie Oglethorpe · March 3, 2004, 23:39

I beliee that the uranium flats lose their special +1 if the land is raised.

Frankychan · March 4, 2004, 00:15

hmmm, never tried that.

Although I've raised the Garland Crater to 3500m and it still give the original bonus.....although it should probably be renamed Garland Hill or something.

Adalbertus · March 4, 2004, 14:14

Some incomplete obervations:
- Most landmarks lose their optical appearance when raised/lowered.
- I'm quite confident that the jungle, uranium flats, and pholus ridge lose their benefits also.
- The Borehole Cluster canges optically to conventional boreholes but they still work.

Anybody tried to lower the mound of Mount Planet?

jtsisyoda · March 4, 2004, 15:25

A borehole in the crater doesn't get +1 minerals.

johndmuller · March 5, 2004, 14:36

I believe that I've seen Mt. Planet tiles lose the 'Volcano' designation for as little as being 'lowered' by sea level changes (probably across a 1k threshhold though).

Skanky Burns · March 8, 2004, 08:32

Well, my first experiment was a success. My capital city was the only city that had crawlers running out of it. By the end of the game that city alone was producing over 2000 energy each turn. I had enough stockpiled energy to buy the win. In no less than 9 cities.

Urban Ranger · March 11, 2004, 06:04

Quote:

Originally posted by HongHu
Thanks everybody for the invaluable advices! This is quite enough to get me going I believe.

I never had a use for energy parks... though I had never played on the Transcendi (?) level, either.

Urban Ranger · March 11, 2004, 06:06

Quote:

Originally posted by Adalbertus
- I'm quite confident that the jungle, uranium flats, and pholus ridge lose their benefits also.

AFAIK, just the Monsoon Jungle loses its bonuses.

Quote:

Originally posted by Adalbertus
Anybody tried to lower the mound of Mount Planet?

You aren't allowed to do that IIRC.

Lazerus · March 11, 2004, 09:03

You can lower mount planet, i normally have to in order to get my boreholes around the base.

Mr. Harley · March 11, 2004, 12:29

Only the Hive would try to lower Mount Planet.

Adalbertus · March 12, 2004, 17:08

I haven't tried that, but maybe it's possible to lower mound planet only by lowering a tile next to it.

Lazerus, if you did so, did the graphics change?

Skanky Burns · March 13, 2004, 01:47

It is possible to lower mount planet by lowering the tile next to the crater. I just tried it. The crater disappears as soon as you lower it though.

Santiago_Claus · March 16, 2004, 21:31

A few years back I developed what I called the "Parallel Ridge Energy Park".

It was an attempt to optimize two competing efficiencies: raising terrain in a straight line and deploying E Mirrors in a circle.

The biggest problem with it is a bug which has been in every version of AC and AC-X since 1998 which corrupts the map data whenever terraforming increases the energy output of a square while it is being remote-mined for energy. When the corrupted map data is referenced it causes an unhandled exception in TerranX.Exe (or Terran.Exe for classic AC).

The second-biggest problem is the E Mirrors shut down once they leave your territorial influence, so you must build "outposts" every so often.

The bugs and SMAC-X's ocean energy build conspire to make E Parks impractical, but here's how to build what I consider the greatest land-based Energy Park ever designed:

A Parallel-Ridge Energy Park is best constructed East-West 2.5 squares from a pole, but North-South construction is also possible. The pole squares are all rocky, so you get the added bonus of a convenient location to build mines, and a ridge along a pole has only one side to defend, as the poles don't "wrap".

Because SMAC East-West is diagonal, if you raise terrain in that line, you get a 3000m ridge with 2000m "teeth" adjacent. Our goal is to build 2 parallel ridges at 2.5 squares' distance so that the "teeth" interlock, creating a huge 2000m plateau between them.

Since the best way to raise to 3000m is to start at 2000m, let's assume the best way to get parallel ridges is to raise a 3000m "curve" from one ridge to the next. If you're raising a ridge Easterly and you want to curve South to build its parallel counterpart, raise Southeast, then South, then South. You are now on the line of the Southern parallel ridge, so raise to the West. The North edge of the South ridge should interlock with the South edge of the North ridge like a zipper.

What's most important is getting the distance just right so the "teeth" interlock without any wasted overlap. That distance is 2.5 units, measuring diagonals as 1 unit and horizontal / vertical as half a unit.

Also note that the ridges can be extended in parallel in either direction indefinitely (or until you circle the globe I guess). In fact, if you're using formers that have a move rate of 1, it is slightly more efficient to put 1 former on each of the 4 ends than put 4 formers on 1 end, because of the turns used up moving.

The placement strategy for E. Mirrors is a subject of another thread, because there are 3 different optimizations: build time, land utilization, and crawler utilization.

Sikander · March 17, 2004, 08:36

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago_Clause
A few years back I developed what I called the "Parallel Ridge Energy Park".

It was an attempt to optimize two competing efficiencies: raising terrain in a straight line and deploying E Mirrors in a circle.

The biggest problem with it is a bug which has been in every version of AC and AC-X since 1998 which corrupts the map data whenever terraforming increases the energy output of a square while it is being remote-mined for energy. When the corrupted map data is referenced it causes an unhandled exception in TerranX.Exe (or Terran.Exe for classic AC).

The second-biggest problem is the E Mirrors shut down once they leave your territorial influence, so you must build "outposts" every so often.

The bugs and SMAC-X's ocean energy build conspire to make E Parks impractical, but here's how to build what I consider the greatest land-based Energy Park ever designed:

A Parallel-Ridge Energy Park is best constructed East-West 2.5 squares from a pole, but North-South construction is also possible. The pole squares are all rocky, so you get the added bonus of a convenient location to build mines, and a ridge along a pole has only one side to defend, as the poles don't "wrap".

Because SMAC East-West is diagonal, if you raise terrain in that line, you get a 3000m ridge with 2000m "teeth" adjacent. Our goal is to build 2 parallel ridges at 2.5 squares' distance so that the "teeth" interlock, creating a huge 2000m plateau between them.

Since the best way to raise to 3000m is to start at 2000m, let's assume the best way to get parallel ridges is to raise a 3000m "curve" from one ridge to the next. If you're raising a ridge Easterly and you want to curve South to build its parallel counterpart, raise Southeast, then South, then South. You are now on the line of the Southern parallel ridge, so raise to the West. The North edge of the South ridge should interlock with the South edge of the North ridge like a zipper.

What's most important is getting the distance just right so the "teeth" interlock without any wasted overlap. That distance is 2.5 units, measuring diagonals as 1 unit and horizontal / vertical as half a unit.

Also note that the ridges can be extended in parallel in either direction indefinitely (or until you circle the globe I guess). In fact, if you're using formers that have a move rate of 1, it is slightly more efficient to put 1 former on each of the 4 ends than put 4 formers on 1 end, because of the turns used up moving.

The placement strategy for E. Mirrors is a subject of another thread, because there are 3 different optimizations: build time, land utilization, and crawler utilization.

Vi Vicdi?

Maniac · March 17, 2004, 15:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Santiago_Clause
The biggest problem with it is a bug which has been in every version of AC and AC-X since 1998 which corrupts the map data whenever terraforming increases the energy output of a square while it is being remote-mined for energy. When the corrupted map data is referenced it causes an unhandled exception in TerranX.Exe (or Terran.Exe for classic AC).

Ah finally someone who also adresses the problem I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Do you know any way to circumvent this bug and still be able to build energy parks? Due to this bug I have avoided building energy parks in all my games since I first encountered that bug.

Skanky Burns · March 17, 2004, 23:39

I made a large energy park and crawlered it. Then I raised the land and still didn't get any problems. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Santiago_Claus · March 18, 2004, 07:51

OMG, I can't believe anyone around here still remembers me!

I haven't been around here nor played any AC for years!

The Latin handle, in addition to having long ago expired, was horribly misspelled, so I switched to "Santiago Claus", which also, sadly, is horribly misspelled.

Hmm ... this is a longshot, but would you happen to know to what "Santiago Claus" refers?

Oh, right, energy parks without crashes: Do Not Disturb. Don't look up resource values on the map (you've memorized those anyway, right?), and don't touch your supply crawlers once you've started them harvesting. If I remember correctly, you can cancel harvesting on a corrupted map square, but if you try to begin again you get a crash. Leave your crawlers where you put 'em. No peeking, either: if you move the cursor over a corrupted map square which is being harvested the system will crash, because a reference is made to the energy value of the map square in order to show the supply crawler's stats in the unit window.

By the way, accessing corrupted map squares from the zoomed-in base view won't cause a crash. Something about the map itself rather than the actual game data seems to be what gets corrupted.

Sikander · March 18, 2004, 09:51

I don't know what Santiago Claus means other than the obvious play on words.

Oh, and welcome back.

Ogie Oglethorpe · March 18, 2004, 11:37

Yep I 'member you Vin Vidi Vic. Welcome back.

Santiago Clause, Disney film where Tim Allen gets transformed into a survivalist woman freak and moves her Montana Militia to the North Pole?

Santiago_Claus · March 18, 2004, 15:13

Ahh, yes, here it is:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=8379

If I really want that to work I have to use UBB, don't I?

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...&threadid=8379

Method · March 18, 2004, 19:33

my energy park...it's a little shaky in the southwest because there's some bases there and i didnt' want to put mirrors in their radius, and putting mirrors all the way long the outside is questionable...but it gives some good returns.

Originally inteded to be 5x5, but i just kept on expanding it due to my Obsessive Building Disorder

Santiago_Claus · March 18, 2004, 21:39

That's a bright plateau you've got there.

If you place the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra atop the monolith at just the right time, will it focus the reflected light of the Echelon Mirrors into a beam of light that points out the last resting place of the ... err, wait, that's in a big warehouse back on Earth, isn't it? Never mind. I'm digging in the wrong place.

Vev · March 18, 2004, 21:47

That map corruption bug. Yeah, annoyed the heck out of me.

Besides crashing, it also gives the incorrect value.

One method that may or may not work is to open one of your bases first, exit, then check the tile information.

Santiago_Claus · March 22, 2004, 22:50

Checking from the base works; checking on the map crashes. It's something to do with the map, maybe the map UI or the way the map UI is linked to the game database.

Vev · March 23, 2004, 02:53

Yeah, just tested it out. If you check one of your bases first, it seems to set the ownership of the terrain improvements correctly and afterwards, you can view the tile without the program crashing.

Skanky Burns · March 23, 2004, 04:30

I'm amazed that after all these years we are still discovering things.

GeoModder · March 23, 2004, 09:25

Quote:

Originally posted by Method
my energy park...it's a little shaky in the southwest because there's some bases there and i didnt' want to put mirrors in their radius, and putting mirrors all the way long the outside is questionable...but it gives some good returns.

I thought that Echelon Mirrors increase the energy output of adjacent Solar Collector squares? Why building so much Echelon Mirrors then? It's no use...

Jamski · March 23, 2004, 09:48

Because they stack. 2 Mirrors increases by 2, 3 mirrors by 3...

By building them like this, each solar collector is next to 6 or even more mirrors. 10+ energy per tile is not unusual.

-Jam

Skanky Burns · March 23, 2004, 10:05

Of course it would be so much more efficient if the solar collectors went all the way to the bottom and top rows of the park - you lose 4 energy bonus in that square to add 1 to the solar above it. Still, a very impressive park there.

Skanky Burns · March 23, 2004, 10:07

The top right hand side should also be completed - a row of solars there will be quick to make and net you quite a lot of energy.