Demigod - play-a-long strategy

[Dominae]

So very sorry.

What with the debate with Sir Ralph about resource scarcity and peaceful games, I completely forgot your position here, lumping it with the "peaceful is harder and more fun" camp. You're quite right to be annoyed.

Can my proposal still stand? I would like to see how many strategic options are available to the warmonger at a point in the game when it's essentially "all over". Personally the reason why I like Domination/Conquest more (at this moment) is this: more options = easier to screw up = more skill-intensive. I want to know if I'm justified in this. If it turns out that there's one "best" strategy, I'll be glad we found it!

Sorry again for putting words into your mouth; I hereby remove them.


Dominae

[DrSpike]

Accepted.

As to the potentially interesting debate started off by our exchange I have to reiterate that I don't feel any victory condition is inherently easier when you are trying to achieve it as early as possible. What I would say is that in terms of just winning the peaceful options are probably easier.

Also, my reasoning behind no condition being inherently easier is that, as always, it just depends. My favourite early landing/diplo win game setup is standard continents map with standard number of civs. With this setup you rarely get enough room just to REX out cities and snooze your way to victory. You face decisions about how you can most efficiently conquer enough (and decisions about what indeed is enough) land to keep the tech rate high at the end of the game. Too many units wastes resources; not enough drags out the war and you can't go to republic until you are done conquering. You face decisions about just how loosely you can defend when in Republic at the beginning. On the highest levels you also face the question about whether it might even be worthwhile using Monarchy whilst you conquer. In many cases handling the transition from war to peace is harder than just continuing war.

That's my favourite kind of game, and IMO it's not any less skill intensive than other game types per se.

We can all come up with settings where the conquest/domination strategy for the map would be exactly the same for any decent player, and the potential for strategic decisions is lacking. Equally peaceful games with too much room at the start can suffer from the same fate.

Also I'd add that sometimes I feel that people confuse micro intensive with skill intensive. No one in their right mind would argue that conquest/domination games are not more micro intensive.

So in conclusion, IMO both peaceful and warlike games have the potential be either rich or lacking in strategic depth.

[Aqualung71]

Dom, good to see you've posted your game for us to compare. I'm going to take a look at it (for my own benefit of course!), but as you know the gods of AU have called us up and so it will have to wait a while.

I’ll be back. Until then, happy Celting!

[Krill]

...Bump...


Ok, I am looking at making the jump to Demigod, since Emperor no longer appeals to me (excluding the AU mod, which is entertaining). Here is a good game, and the surroundings get better. Enjoy!!


Game settings:

Standard;
70% Continents;
Roaming;
Normal;
Temperate;
4 Billion;
France.

[Krill]

The Save

[cracky]

a couple of questions...

I just moved up to Emperor, but with a start like this, I'm willing to give demi a shot.

Is this an AU game or straight C3C?

Do you have the AI bonuses/handicaps chart handy so I can see what I'm up against on demi? (I can never remember what threads its been posted in... ....hint, hint, vmxa1 )

[Krill]

straight game, no AU mod.

All I know is that the AI start with 2 settler, and have a 30% production discount.

[Krill]

here are the bonuses

[Krill]

Here is my first DAR, until 2150BC (first 40 turns):

4000BC: move worker 6, onto cow; move settler 9 (after setting research to CB), net 25 old, change research to Pottery, 100%.

3950BC: settle Paris, build queue = warrior->settler (to set up the second pump, because of the wheat 69 of Paris)->granary…Worker irrigates.

3800BC: worker roads

3700BC: warrior finished, start settler. Worker moves 1

3650BC: Pop 2, up lux slider to 20%. worker mines.

2450BC: worker roads, border expands…and I have 3 cows and one wheat. Nice

3350BC: worker moves 6

3300BC: worker irrigates, settler built, build barracks (as prebuild)

3250BC: Orleans built 22 of Paris, since that is the only tile that will allow access to the cows @ 33 and 211 of Paris. Build warrior in Orleans, work BG.

3100BC: Pottery Complete, research Writing @ 100% minus lux slider cost (80% at his point)


I will not continue the notes, with the exception of important events.


2800BC: Meet Egypt, trade alpha for BW+20g. They have WC and CB as well.

2430BC: Paris completes the Granary

2350BC: My first 4-turn pump (Paris) starts the regular production of settler.

2190BC: My second 4-turn settler pump came online this turn, starting regular production of settlers, after it builds another worker (mixing in further workers as required.)

2150BC: end of first 40 turns.


The Map:

[Krill]

And the save:

[vmxa1]

Krill is the capitol consider a coastal town? I can't tell if they have a tile between them and the water or not.

[Krill]

no, the capital is a non coastal town. But with the move it only has 1 tile of coast, instead of 2, and allows another town to be coastal, and sets up Orleans to be settler pump, then worker pump for a verylong time for come...


DAR 2, until the discovery of Philosophy

1) discover writing, and the eygptians do not have it. Instead, they have WC, Wheel, IW, and Myst.

2) I meet the ottomans, who have same techs as Egypt minus IW.

3) when I have 3 turns to go on philo, I trade writing to Egypt and Ottomans, netting 213 gold (Egypt), wheel, WC and Myst, (Ottomans).

4) Discover Philo, and trade it for Polytheism and 12 gold from the Ottomans, and 50 gold from Egypt (they won't let go of IW very easily...), set research to Monarchy, and...some other bugger got it first. At least my empire is productive.

[Krill]

The save.

[Krill]

The (admittedly miscellaneous) pic

[Modo44]

Will it stay that crowded around Orleans and Paris or will you be moving one of the cities later on?

[Krill]

I will probably palace jump later in the game, but that will only be after I have taken over the Egyptian lands, and I have built the FP somewhere.


And, IMHO, that is not crowded. That is 3 tile spacing, which is very efficient in C3, but incudes a camp that spews out 4 turn settlers and 2 turn workers under despotism. I would keep it like that even if it looks crowded., because it is efficient.

[Aqualung71]

Just to keep the interest up in this thread, dropping by to say I've been playing this one on and off. Rather haphazardly without enough attention to MM, which is critical when you've got so much bonus food around....and a pretty dangerous attitude to apply to any Demi-God game, but I'm doing ok.

This has been my greatest war-mongering game ever! I built masses of Horsemen and attacked the Egyptians, since they had "my" Iron resource. Halfway through the war I had a Horseman Army and a Swordsman Army and an MGL built FP. I then proceeded to take them out entirely and banished their capital to a tundra island.

Intermittent wars with the Ottomans also occurred, since they seemed to think they were entitled to take my techs for free.

Anyway, all the gaps are filled up and the continent is being shared between the French and the Ottomans. Joan is now planning her stragety to remove the Ottoman threat before the Sipahi appear!

I think I'm up to 450AD. Screenshots next time I load up!

[nbarclay]

This looked like a nice starting position for a Demigod game, so I decided to give it a try. I founded Paris by the starting position and immediately started irrigating cattle. The hut by the starting position gave me a warrior, who went exploring to the north (since the starting position was on the southern edge of the map).

I started with a settler-granary pattern in my capital, but I probably didn't do a very good job picking a site for my second city. The good thing about Orleans was that I could get a good growth rate in both my initial cities irrigating only two of the capital tiles and leaving improvement for the other two high-food tiles for later. The bad - very bad - thing about it was that Orleans outgrew its production very quickly in spie of my having it build a worker before it started a granary. I probably would have gotten a better balance building my second city where I ended up putting Lyons, my third city. The other likely better option would have been to build a second worker in Orleans before starting the granary so I could do a better job keeping up in improved tiles.

When I met Egypt, I considered going ahead and trading Alphabet to them but I decided to wait until I met someone else. My conscript warrior blundered around a bit, popping three huts in the process (two barb huts and one with 25 gold) and finally headed the right direction to meet the Ottomans. At that point, I traded Alphabet to the Ottomans for The Wheel and 109 gold and to Egypt for the working of Bronze and a handful of gold. (I was more concerned about accumulating gold for future research than about getting as many techs as possible out of Alphabet.)

As of 2150 BC, I have three cities and am about ready to found a fourth. Once I get going, my plan is for Paris and Lyons to be settler pumps sharing the three cattle tiles and Orleans to be a three-turn worker pump using the wheat. (For two 4-turn pumps with three cattle, I'll end up with a huge micromanagement headache moving laborers back and forth every turn or two, but I'm willing to do such things for a little extra efficiency.) My fourth city will build at least a couple warriors for anti-barbarian and military police duty before starting on its granary. (I tend to like having granaries in all my early cities.)

[Dominae]

Krill, you have two 4-turn Settler pumps, but no Worker-pumps? Where are the Workers coming from, newly-founded cities?

[Krill]

Yeah, some come from the new cities, others from the settler pumps. The reason for not building as many workers is that I want as much land settled asap. I don't have that much land available, and I really need the cities to support the future army that I am about to build.


And, yes, I do know that i should have irrigated the 3rd cow and wheat. I am just a little to tired at the moent to do that extra MM. When I have settled all the land that I can, then the pumps will start churning out hte workers. Later on Orleans will become a one turn worker pump, and Lyons a 2 turn pump. With this in mind the FP will likely go in Rheims, with a palace jump later. If some prime land comes up (IE I completely conquer the Egyptions, then I will shut down Rheims and rebuild the FP in a better position even later via a prebuild)

[Aqualung71]

Any more on this one, Krilly?

[punkbass2000]

Here's a nice start for a demigod game as Celts. It's with the AU mod, though, but I'm of the impression that everyone participating in this thread often plays with it anyway.

[punkbass2000]

And the start:

[Jon Shafer]

Wheat, flood plains and an AGR civ?

Too easy.

[punkbass2000]

Well, I did post it because it's such a swheat start.