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View Poll Results: Would you pay to use Apolyton without ads + other goodies?
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Yes
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26 |
13.68% |
Yes, but I dont have a credit card
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27 |
14.21% |
Yes, If the price is right
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56 |
29.47% |
No
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81 |
42.63% |
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March 4, 2004, 07:46
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#211
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Prince
Local Time: 18:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Deaf forever
Posts: 599
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I can live with the ads. Keep'em coming!!!
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March 4, 2004, 09:55
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#212
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King
Local Time: 18:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 1,528
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Tamerlin
*SNIP*
Paying to get rid off ads is not really the problem as far as I am concerned, I am actually afraid that this would be the beginning of a new process leading to a fully paying site.
*SNIP*
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Absolutely agree.
Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie.
No, thanks.
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March 4, 2004, 11:57
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#213
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Harry Tuttle
MarkG, not to be off topic from the paying subscriber idea, but have you ever been approached from a company wanting to do a promotion on the site? Like an active give away contest, or a themed promotional period for a movie, game, etc..? I know some promotions involve the annoying popup or entrance screen before you can proceed to the forum, but has anything else been discussed?
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There have been 1-2 occasions that we run ads that came after a more direct deal with the advertised instead of through an ad network.
i suppose we could use an ad inventory sales team
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March 4, 2004, 11:58
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#214
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
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Quote:
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Originally posted by My Wife Hates CIV
what's the price (even a ball park estimate)??? what are the goodies??? what kinda of sorry sales job is this.
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this was an introductory marketing research effort
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as a member of apolyton for years now (and the holder of the best name), one would think posters like myself would get a price break or first years membership free. remember - it's the loyal posters that have made apolyton what it is - it's almost more my site than markg's.
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this is actually a pretty interesting idea
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March 4, 2004, 12:03
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#215
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Tamerlin
Paying to get rid off ads is not really the problem as far as I am concerned, I am actually afraid that this would be the beginning of a new process leading to a fully paying site.
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- the "full paying" sites idea has failed.
- the "partially free content / partially non-free content" idea requires a much much much larger initial audience (gamespot, salon, etc) to start with
offering services is actually the only viable way to go for us...
Last edited by MarkG; March 4, 2004 at 12:10.
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March 4, 2004, 12:07
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#216
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Apolyton CS Co-Founder
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1998
Location: Macedonia, Greece
Posts: 24,480
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MrBaggins
Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie.
No, thanks.
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since 1996 (that the predecessor sites of apolyton begun), Dan and I have been storing thousands of people's e-mail addresses. the indication that we would anything with user personal data is actually insulting
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March 4, 2004, 13:03
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#217
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King
Local Time: 18:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Posts: 1,528
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MarkG
since 1996 (that the predecessor sites of apolyton begun), Dan and I have been storing thousands of people's e-mail addresses. the indication that we would anything with user personal data is actually insulting
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Nevertheless, I'd say that a financial transaction requires disclosure of a lot more than just an (free anonymous in my case) email address. I've seperated out any online activity not requiring financial information, and use different individually created email accts for financial transactions.
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March 4, 2004, 13:30
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#218
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Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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Quote:
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Originally posted by MrBaggins
Its a slippery slope... plus you start to intrude more into the privacy area when you charge (particularly by credit card)... each user becomes more identifiable than a dynamic IP plus cookie.
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I thought the very interest of PayPal was that this company was entirely in charge of the information, and that there was no account info that transpired to the reciever.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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March 4, 2004, 16:21
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#219
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King
Local Time: 18:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Of the universe / England
Posts: 2,061
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I don’t know if anybody has mentioned this, but sites with an add free charge often end up putting a lot of advertising junk on. This makes more people sign up for the ad free.
so I have voted no. if the vote goes the other way can we please have a promise to keep the amount of adverts we already have. I can’t afford any subscription fee and don’t want to be spammed into the stone age.
__________________
"Every time I learn something new it pushes some old stuff out of my brain" Homer Jay Simpson
The BIG MC making ctp2 a much unsafer place.
Visit the big mc’s website
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March 4, 2004, 16:41
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#220
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Deity
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Republic of Flanders
Posts: 10,747
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I'm not going to search through two of these threads, but Mark or Dan has said that:
"If the subscription is succesfull, the adds for non-paying members might even go down"
There is a reason why this site the best on the net, you know
__________________
#There’s a city in my mind
Come along and take that ride
And it’s all right, baby, it’s all right #
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March 4, 2004, 17:28
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#221
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Deity
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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What the people worried about this development don't seem to realize is that Markos and Dan do NOT care about the money. If they were in it for the money, Apolyton would never exist in the first place: they have explained us in the past that it used to be that the site (and it's predecessors) was actually loss-making, they had to throw in their own money just to keep it running. They were running it anyway, because they cared so much about it.
Time and time again have they refused to sell out while they had a perfect opportunity to do so. Countless times have they refused donations and the like (they are uncomfortable with the idea of getting something for nothing -- something some of the people here could learn something from), have they kicked out advertisers that published unacceptable ads (with spyware, porn or other undesirable content), have they paid the bills out of their own pockets, etc. If they were even remotely interested in the money, they wouldn't have done any of these things.
On top of that, they only wanted to offer this extra service after EXTENSIVE whining by people who want to get rid of the current pop-up and other ads, want a more reliable server/connection, or just want to be able to support the site more than is currently possible. And even now that they *are* planning to offer this service, they are even announcing that they will decrease the amount of ads for non-paying visitors as soon as the financial situation allows for it. They're obviously only interested in making enough money to ensure the survival of this site, nothing less but also nothing more.
This is not a slippery slope, nowhere near it. Anyone who even remotely knows these two great guys can tell you that, as far as Apolyton is concerned, making money is the very LAST thing on their minds. They only want to provide the best possible service to the Civ community, and if that means giving people the option to not see ads for a small fee, then they are willing to make the effort to make that possible. Not for their own sake, but for us, the visitors, the Civilization community.
Last edited by Locutus; March 4, 2004 at 17:36.
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March 4, 2004, 20:27
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#222
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Deity
Local Time: 19:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
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March 4, 2004, 20:32
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#223
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
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(except I prefer "persuading" as opposed to "whining"  )
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
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March 4, 2004, 21:27
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#224
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King
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 2,508
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Thank you, Locutus, that is what I tried to say. Mark and Dan are real hero types for all their effort. Hopefully, we can help share the load with our subscriptions.
Monk
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March 4, 2004, 21:52
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#225
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Local Time: 05:30
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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Well said Locutus. I propose we put that block of text in bold above every thread in this post as well.
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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March 4, 2004, 22:01
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#226
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King
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Toulouse (South-western France)
Posts: 2,051
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Locutus
If they were even remotely interested in the money, they wouldn't have done any of these things.
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I know that Locutus and I have never imagined they could do it in order to earn some profits from Apolyton.
__________________
"Democracy is the worst form of government there is, except for all the others that have been tried." Sir Winston Churchill
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March 5, 2004, 06:51
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#227
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Flyover Country
Posts: 4,659
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I would have no problem paying for ad-free apolyton.
__________________
"We have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it does not work...After eight years of this Administration, we have just as much unemployment as when we started... And an enormous debt to boot!" — Henry Morgenthau, Franklin Delano Roosevelt's Treasury secretary, 1941.
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March 5, 2004, 07:11
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#228
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Deity
Local Time: 19:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Enthusiastic member of Apolyton
Posts: 30,342
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It seems the noes have mounted a comeback.
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March 5, 2004, 07:26
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#229
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Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: jihadding against Danish Feta
Posts: 6,182
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Well, there are still 95 yeses.
If you account 30 $€ a year per yeasayer, that makes 2850 $€ a year for 'poly from these people alone. Definitely not too shabby.
__________________
"I have been reading up on the universe and have come to the conclusion that the universe is a good thing." -- Dissident
"I never had the need to have a boner." -- Dissident
"I have never cut off my penis when I was upset over a girl." -- Dis
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March 5, 2004, 07:35
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#230
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Deity
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: De Hel van Enschede
Posts: 11,702
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Well, if all those 100 yeses follow up on their vote, I doubt it will matter much. Even at a mere €10 a year that's a considerable amount of money.
Edit: crosspost (and slight miscalculation  )
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March 5, 2004, 08:32
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#231
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
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This is an amazing response IMHO. The shear level of interest that this poll has inspired can do nothing but raise the awareness of the challenges that are involved in running a site of this stature. Well over 2000 views...well over 200 posts...and,at this moment, 159 opinions noted. Wow! Not to mention that the awareness of the Community Forum as a place to discuss these type issues has undoubtedly been increased.
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
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March 5, 2004, 22:05
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#232
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Prince
Local Time: 14:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Tansi (USA)
Posts: 519
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Its a good idea, and you guys should go for it. I'd opt out myself for specific reasons:
(1) Mac platform, little here for Mac in terms of mac community involvement, etc.
(2) Currently a subscriber to IMG (Inside Mac Games) PRO ($19.95 / year), which is a similar concept MarkG is suggesting. There is still free membership at IMG, but PRO members get a few perks and the warm fuzzies for providing some funds for IMG to make improvements.
__________________
"What did you learn in school today, dear little boy of mine?
I learned our government must be strong. It's always right and never wrong,.....that's what I learned in school."
--- Tom Paxton song ('63)
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March 7, 2004, 12:17
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#233
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King
Local Time: 10:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,079
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i wouldn't pay for ad free apolyton.
is it just to stop the pop ups (most browsers already do this..), or that the top banner doesnt load?
maybe ad free apolyton will cause more headaches for setting up programming wise, don't know where the staff here stands anyway on that. just think about people accidentaly seeing ads after they pay, because of some php or db bug.
sell more poly stuff instead! like those extra large my words are backed with nuclear weapon coffee mugs, those are great
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March 7, 2004, 12:20
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#234
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Local Time: 05:30
Local Date: November 3, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Skanky Father
Posts: 16,530
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... and realistically only available to the US members of the forum. Shipping drives the price up for the rest of us, so we need to spend nearly $75 for each mug. And then of that, Poly gets maybe $2 if they are lucky. If you thought corruption in Civ3 was bad...
__________________
I'm building a wagon! On some other part of the internets, obviously (but not that other site).
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March 7, 2004, 14:53
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#235
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King
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2001
Location: austin, tx
Posts: 2,508
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Well said, Skanky!!
And smellymummy, this is not about popups, per se. As you note, anyone can block them. This voluntary effort is about a community working together to make the site better. And did I mention that it is voluntary??
With the ubiquitousness of blockers, popups will soon be dinosaurs. But, the site will still need revenue to survive. Those of us who treasure this site are trying to solve that problem. Perhaps, with this context, you might like to join us. And if you don't, that's okay, because, this part is strictly voluntary; there will continue to be the free option.
Monk
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March 7, 2004, 15:44
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#236
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King
Local Time: 10:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 2,079
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thanks for quickly putting that in perspective skanky
and bloody monk, of course i understand it's voluntary, and no I do not feel the need to sign up. I do enjoy this site, and I've been coming here for many years. For me, apolyton goes hand in hand with my civ'ing hobby. In the past I've bought stuff from here, and I do follow various sponsor links (when it's of relevant interest), so in that context I believe that I've contributed to apolyton, and btw, will continue to do so.
the 'goodies' part could be an incentive enough for many to join, not for me though. ad free apolyton with some extra PM space, and a larger avatar doesn't justify whiping out my CC. On the other hand, if I received an email from apolyton that had a link to a place where I could buy/pre-order civ4 (or another like game) I'd be compeled to follow through because I'd want the game and I'd also like to support this site at the same time
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March 7, 2004, 20:37
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#237
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: The Occupied South
Posts: 4,729
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Bloody Monk
With the ubiquitousness of blockers, popups will soon be dinosaurs. But, the site will still need revenue to survive. Those of us who treasure this site are trying to solve that problem. Perhaps, with this context, you might like to join us. And if you don't, that's okay, because, this part is strictly voluntary; there will continue to be the free option.
Monk
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Very well put Monk.
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I do not feel the need to sign up. I do enjoy this site, and I've been coming here for many years. For me, apolyton goes hand in hand with my civ'ing hobby. In the past I've bought stuff from here, and I do follow various sponsor links (when it's of relevant interest), so in that context I believe that I've contributed to apolyton, and btw, will continue to do so.
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Definately more than one way to contribute. Each person must make their own decision. This philosophy, as best I can see, appears to be that of the owners as well.
__________________
Favorite Staff Quotes:
People are screeming for consistency, but it ain't gonna happen from me. -rah
God... I have to agree with Asher ;) -Ming - Asher gets it :b: -Ming
Troll on dope is like a moose on the loose - Grandpa Troll
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March 7, 2004, 20:43
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#238
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Lima, Peru
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Doc
It seems the noes have mounted a comeback.
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But you have to disccount a lot of people that have thinked it again or so and now they support the idea. You can give a look in this thread to have an idea.
I'm also support the idea, but I have not money support yet to support the idea  .
__________________
Fortune and Glory, here I come!!!.
Indy Jones
I'm not afraid of an army of lions lead by a lamb, i'm afraid of an army of sheep lead by a lion
Alexander the Great
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March 8, 2004, 13:06
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#239
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Deity
Local Time: 14:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Dance Dance for the Revolution!
Posts: 15,132
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p.s. Markos/Dan if you eventuallt decide against this can we just cut you a check anyway, some of us just can't stand popups.
A certain poster would even be willing to pay "back rent".
__________________
I'm consitently stupid- Japher
I think that opinion in the United States is decidedly different from the rest of the world because we have a free press -- by free, I mean a virgorously presented right wing point of view on the air and available to all.- Ned
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March 9, 2004, 11:20
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#240
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Deity
Local Time: 20:30
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 11,112
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I've got my paypal working, so I can give a payment to the site... now it only depends on the size of the fee (I'm just a student, you know?  )...
But be sure to post new threads about it, cuz I don't read this thread anymore...
__________________
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