Want to get rid of the popups??

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 20:40

Mark and Dan are considering offering an ad free fee based membership.

IF YOU DO NOT GET THE MEMBERSHIP THEN NOTHING CHANGES FOR HOW YOU USE THE SITE.

If you do wish to get it, then Mark is mentioning "other goodies"

He has asked for our input on the level of interest.

VOTE HERE:

http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=109513

alva · February 27, 2004, 20:42

Can a mod top this one, please

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 20:46

Quote:

Originally posted by alva
Can a mod top this one, please

Sent a request to Ming. He agreed.

Ming · February 27, 2004, 20:48

I was going to close this one and keep it topped so that the discussion could continue in the community forum thread where MarkG is watching it carefully... but since many people never go to the community forum, you can discuss it here as well.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 20:53

http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/

Oh no wait, we're not allowed to use pop-up blockers now...
http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...25#post2696325

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 20:58

I would recommend that if you have something serious to ad to this discussion that you go to the community forum.

monkspider · February 27, 2004, 20:59

Ugh, if anti pop-blocking tools are implemented, it may be my last visit to Poly.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:07

Quote:

I would recommend that if you have something serious to ad to this discussion that you go to the community forum.

Fairly safe to say that this is serious.

Also consider that IE is going to be updated in the summer with an integrated pop-up blocker. That will effectively kill them both here and elsewhere, so I would just sit tight and wait for the ads to die a natural death. I'm sure they'll be replaced by pop-ins etc, but disable images and I think that solves them (not to a satisfactory degree of course but give mozilla time...).

Quote:

Ugh, if anti pop-blocking tools are implemented, it may be my last visit to Poly.

I agree. Any other takers? Particularly those using blockers?

Thorn · February 27, 2004, 21:08

If I pay for membership will I still get banned?

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:09

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider
Ugh, if anti pop-blocking tools are implemented, it may be my last visit to Poly.

monkspider, read the threads in the Community forum. Mark has said that while possible that this is not probable (Mark, excuse my paraphrasing!).

He also states that their are different types of ads available that will get past a pop up blocker.

The real problem is that the site cannot survive without revenue. You can still enjoy the same ad free experience without breaking the rules by subscribing.

Not to mention the "extra goodies" that are apparently to be a part of the subscription.

monkspider · February 27, 2004, 21:10

The only thing that would get me to subscribe is counting OT posts as +1.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:11

Quote:

He also states that their are different types of ads available that will get past a pop up blocker.

Not for long. Furthermore, if you disable certain images, or enable images from the originating website only, you pretty much kill image-related ads full stop.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:11

Quote:

Originally posted by Thorn
If I pay for membership will I still get banned?

I would imagine that the rules would still apply.

Thorn · February 27, 2004, 21:12

Then I'll boycott.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:12

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

Not for long. Furthermore, if you disable certain images, or enable images from the originating website only, you pretty much kill image-related ads full stop.

So how would you propose that Apolyton generate revenue?

monkspider · February 27, 2004, 21:17

Quote:

Originally posted by PLATO

So how would you propose that Apolyton generate revenue?

Sell mugs that are more aesthetically pleasing.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:20

Quote:

Originally posted by monkspider

Sell mugs that are more aesthetically pleasing.

If you would commit to buying a certain number each month then I'm sure Mark would be happy to speak with you.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:21

Quote:

So how would you propose that Apolyton generate revenue?

Not my concern. Only that it wont be done using underhand tactics and my bandwidth. If I were using dialup it would be costing me money. I have never bought anything from a pop-up, they are an annoyance and an impedence. They serve no useful purpose to me, I therefore eliminate them on my computer. This is reasonable. What is not reasonable is making a condition "you cannot use this website if you have your computer set up in a certain way". It is environmental and consequential, in other words, not the business of Apolyton.

However I have bought a book from Amazon, which I accessed using a link (then nav'd to the books section). Keep that up.

Other forums of which I am a member (Ektopos.com and politicsforum.org (I am BenElijah on both)) do not have pop-ups or the like. See how they finance.

Shogun Gunner · February 27, 2004, 21:22

Sell a licence plate frame that says "My words are backed with nuclear weapons" not "My words are backed with nuclear power"

I just bought a new car and went to the Poly store to buy that frame, but I noticed something wasn't quite right. I looked closer and saw that subtle shift of wording...NO SALE.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:31

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

Not my concern.

Oh but it is.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:33

Do explain. And do explain how you're MarkG's DL!

Drogue · February 27, 2004, 21:40

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Not my concern. Only that it wont be done using underhand tactics and my bandwidth. If I were using dialup it would be costing me money. I have never bought anything from a pop-up, they are an annoyance and an impedence. They serve no useful purpose to me, I therefore eliminate them on my computer. This is reasonable. What is not reasonable is making a condition "you cannot use this website if you have your computer set up in a certain way". It is environmental and consequential, in other words, not the business of Apolyton.

And you're popups are not their concern. They can put whatever conditions on membership they want, and you can take it or leave it. Your call. If you want to use this site, you stick by the rules, and don't use an underhand way of getting round it.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:44

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
And do explain how you're MarkG's DL!

hehe.

Seriously, I just simply care about this community. I don't like pop-ups...I don't like breaking the rules. A solution is called for.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:47

Quote:

And you're popups are not their concern. They can put whatever conditions on membership they want, and you can take it or leave it.

I take it, it hits my browser, my browser rejects it. Apolyton's "jurisdiction" so to speak ends when it sends the data packets whirring to my ISP.

Quote:

hey can put whatever conditions on membership they want, and you can take it or leave it.

Indeed, but there are levels of reasonability, you could call it a sphere of contractualism in that respect, where it is reasonable to make such a contract. I have described that above. Is it a condition of using Apolyton that I have to give rah my left kidney?

Quote:

don't use an underhand way of getting round it.

It's hardly underhand. Its a recognised piece of technology that is regarded by IT people as a useful tool, recommended for use on the internet by people like you and me. I am using popular and intended features of my browser. I have the pop-up blocker enabled and only images from the originating website can get through. No hacking, nothing underhand, nothing cloak and dagger. Just the ability to click onto the options menu. I don't see a problem there. In terms of contractualism of course

.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 21:49

Quote:

Seriously, I just simply care about this community. I don't like pop-ups...I don't like breaking the rules. A solution is called for.

Yep, but that solution isn't pop-ups or means that exploit the openess of peoples browsers. Banners etc I can cope with, they are unintrusive.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

I take it, it hits my browser, my browser rejects it. Apolyton's "jurisdiction" so to speak ends when it sends the data packets whirring to my ISP.

Indeed, but there are levels of reasonability, you could call it a sphere of contractualism in that respect, where it is reasonable to make such a contract. I have described that above. Is it a condition of using Apolyton that I have to give rah my left kidney?

It's hardly underhand. Its a recognised piece of technology that is regarded by IT people as a useful tool, recommended for use on the internet by people like you and me. I am using popular and intended features of my browser. I have the pop-up blocker enabled and only images from the originating website can get through. No hacking, nothing underhand, nothing cloak and dagger. Just the ability to click onto the options menu. I don't see a problem there. In terms of contractualism of course

.

Nothing that you have mentioned has addressed the fact that this is a privately owned site and they have the right to determine conditions of use. Your choice is to abide by them or risk the consequences of having broken these rules.

The technology also exists to drive 120 miles per hour, but there are penalties of that as well. When you get a license to drive you agree to abide by the rules.

When you register here you agree to abide by the rules.

Drogue · February 27, 2004, 21:53

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Indeed, but there are levels of reasonability, you could call it a sphere of contractualism in that respect, where it is reasonable to make such a contract. I have described that above. Is it a condition of using Apolyton that I have to give rah my left kidney?

If the owners wish to make it so, then yes. They provide the rules, you have the freedom to accept or not. Your call.

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy
It's hardly underhand. Its a recognised piece of technology that is regarded by IT people as a useful tool, recommended for use on the internet by people like you and me. I am using popular and intended features of my browser. I have the pop-up blocker enabled and only images from the originating website can get through. No hacking, nothing underhand, nothing cloak and dagger. Just the ability to click onto the options menu. I don't see a problem there. In terms of contractualism of course

.

And they're using a recognised piece of technology, that has been a useful tool and is used by IT professionals too. It's called a pop-up. It's not underhand either. It's expected and above board. If you don't like it, don't agree to the terms and conditions.

PLATO · February 27, 2004, 21:54

Quote:

Originally posted by Whaleboy

Yep, but that solution isn't pop-ups or means that exploit the openess of peoples browsers. Banners etc I can cope with, they are unintrusive.

It is your choice to be here. Those are the rules. What is so hard to get about that?

monkspider · February 27, 2004, 21:57

I think that something that some people here have lost sight of is that this is a fan site, not a buisiness, and the primary focus should not be to generate revenue.

If poly is hard up for cash, there are plenty who here would happily donate to help it, myself included. But the solution should not be to alienate so many long-time visitors of Poly.

Whaleboy · February 27, 2004, 22:03

Quote:

Nothing that you have mentioned has addressed the fact that this is a privately owned site and they have the right to determine conditions of use. Your choice is to abide by them or risk the consequences of having broken these rules.

That is true, but you have not addressed the problem I have that the conditions made are unreasonable.

Quote:

If the owners wish to make it so, then yes. They provide the rules, you have the freedom to accept or not. Your call.

Now I could argue that I signed up in Jan 2003, where there was nothing that said I must have pop-up blockers turned off etc. I agreed to those conditions and am thus a member. I have largely abided by those conditions since then, and where I havent, on 2/3 occasions IIRC I have been penalised. I abide by the conditions as of Jan 2003

and have not been asked to agree to new terms on condition of my continued posting. The fact that I am still doing so attests to that fact. It is a ridiculous proposition.

Quote:

And they're using a recognised piece of technology, that has been a useful tool and is used by IT professionals too. It's called a pop-up. It's not underhand either. It's expected and above board. If you don't like it, don't agree to the terms and conditions.

Actually it's pretty much loathed accross the IT industry.

Quote:

It is your choice to be here. Those are the rules. What is so hard to get about that?

Not when I signed up. The best attack against your position is as I said earlier, even if I agreed to let Apolyton send my the pop-up data via the internet, which they do, they do not stipulate how I use it. It does not display on my computer, but that is my end. Do they stipulate the contrast and brightness on my monitor? If they stated that the contrast had to be at a certain level on condition of my using the site, would that be reasonable? I think not. The same situation is occuring here, yet as it is internal to the computer it is harder to perceive than in physical terms, yet conceptually and logically it is the same.

You send me the data. I do what I want with it. I do not want to display pop-ups so I reject that data that has been sent to my computer (apolyton jurisdiction over) and display only what I want. That is reasonable. Now whether or not I am breaking an agreement (which I do not believe I am but if so, it is some few words I didnt read) is trivial in comparison to the issue that such a demand is unreasonable. Furthermore, it is untenable within four months, and increasingly so now as alternative browsers with pop-up blockers are becoming more common. That would seem to render this argument academic.