LoTR coronation and other moments

[Dr Strangelove]

I would have liked to have seen Cold Mountain get more recognition.

I'm glad that a great novel got the cinematic treatment it deserved. I only wish that the novel Dune had gotten such tender loving care.

[MrBaggins]

The showing of Cold Reception that I went to, had a very sarcastic crowd. There was a fair bit of jeering, and some amusement at the accents, with a guy to my right doing a parody of Kidman and Zellweger, until someone told him to shut up. For me, he was way more entertaining than the film, and the highlight of the show.

I don't think people connected with the film... it seemed... lackluster. The Seabiscuit crowd was far more enthralled. The M&C showing was odd... I was into the film, until this b!tch in front of me (if I'm using my most kind and reserved sentiment) started discussing what was going on, loud enough to be distracting. The film was dragging a bit by that point, though...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Murray didn't particularly need direction considering he's seen and been involved in more productions than Sophia's been alive for.

And? He's never really done a film like this before.

Plus he did enough improv, that its somewhat surprising that he wasn't up for the Original Screenplay, for co-writer.

You'd think he improved the entire movie from dumb quotes like this.

I mean... Starwars got no Best Picture wins (in 5 attempts)??? That must really sting with your being a StarWars fan and all, especially with the sweep by ROTK this year.

Starwars never deserved it. It was a 'fun' movie, but never the best. Annie Hall was greatly superior to the first one. It had crappy acting and not very good direction. I have a feeling ROTK's sweep will be seen by future generations like Titanic's 11 wins is by us .

It's nice you think I 'envy' your film. But only the most blind fanboys think their vastly overrated film deserved all those Oscars. Oh wait... you would be one of them, wouldn't you?

[Lung]

God, what a pack of sore losers

I haven't seen any of the other nominations yet, but i saw ROTK and, like its prequels, was thoroughly entertained. What's so wrong about that?

Just because some of you don't consider entertainment in your valuation of what constitutes a good movie, don't expect the rest of the world to think the same way You people are free to be film snobs, it's just that no one else thinks you're special

I don't often agree with the academy, but i take awards for what they are - mutual adoration and back-slapping among peers. As far as they're concerned, the rest of us can take it or leave it. So don't lose sleep over it! If you think some mind-numbingly boring arty-farty movie meets your narrow view of what makes a good movie, then have your own awards. Just don't whinge when no one else turns up!

As for the Kiwis, what makes you think us Aussies aren't happy for you sheep-rooters? Just because you have such a big chip on your collective shoulder that you hope we get beaten by everyone at everything and secretly hope that someone nukes us on your behalf, doesn't mean we return the compliment

GET A LIFE!

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Murray didn't particularly need direction considering he's seen and been involved in more productions than Sophia's been alive for.

And? He's never really done a film like this before.

And you might have a point if that were correct... but its not... he was in Coffee and Cigarettes by
Jim Jarmusch, for example. Good movie, FWIW.

You'd think he improved the entire movie from dumb quotes like this.

The point is that he certainly helped Sophia, more than Sophia helped him... as did Daddy, I'm sure.

Starwars never deserved it. It was a 'fun' movie, but never the best. Annie Hall was greatly superior to the first one. It had crappy acting and not very good direction. I have a feeling ROTK's sweep will be seen by future generations like Titanic's 11 wins is by us .

Based on what precident? Titanic didn't get the unanimous praise and mass kudos that LOTR has garnered... in fact its won pretty much every precursor, and been raved by most every reviewer on earth.

It looks more like a Gone With the Wind or Ben Hur acknowledgement, than Titanic, from this vantagepoint.

It's nice you think I 'envy' your film. But only the most blind fanboys think their vastly overrated film deserved all those Oscars. Oh wait... you would be one of them, wouldn't you?

If you don't envy the film, why have you been spending quite so long criticizing it?

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I have a feeling ROTK's sweep will be seen by future generations like Titanic's 11 wins is by us

Really, who cares about a sweep? Do you remember who won for best sound effects editing in 1997? Who cares?

I have a hard time believing I will look back at ROTK's best pic win the same way I look back at Titanic's--a mix of disdain, horror, incredulity, and resignation.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And you might have a point if that were correct... but its not... he was in Coffee and Cigarettes by
Jim Jarmusch, for example.

An arty film no one has ever heard of?

The point is that he certainly helped Sophia, more than Sophia helped him

And I'm sure Ian McKellan helped Peter Jackson more than Jackson helped him. What is your point again?

Titanic didn't get the unanimous praise and mass kudos that LOTR has garnered

You're kidding right? Titanic was just about the same forgone conclusion as ROTK was. It was racking up awards and taking names.

If you don't envy the film, why have you been spending quite so long criticizing it?

So you must be envious to critisize something for 'so long'. I guess we are ALL envious of Titanic here? Are the liberals envious of George Bush?

[Rogan Josh]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris
Tolkien was not a particularly intelligent man, and not a great writer.

He was a damn sight more intelligent than you.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You're kidding right? Titanic was just about the same forgone conclusion as ROTK was. It was racking up awards and taking names.

On the contrary, Imran. He is talking about critical opinion, not awards. A very, very substantial portion of critics found Titanic to be rather soulless and ridiculous. The reviews were decidedly mixed--some great, some good, some bad, some awful.

You'll find ROTK's reviews to be significantly more one-sided.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I have a hard time believing I will look back at ROTK's best pic win the same way I look back at Titanic's--a mix of disdain, horror, incredulity, and resignation.

It's because you were a guy reacting to a chick flick . For all the talk about how women liked it, most women I've spoken to snored through it. You ARE the target audience.

[Guynemer]

Anecdotal evidence--I thought law students were better than that.

I read an article--for the life of me, can't remember where--that said that the LOTR audience was split 50/50 genderwise.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Are the liberals envious of George Bush?

In some respects, yes.

After all, they say that ignorance is bliss--if true, Dubya must be positively orgasmic.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I read an article--for the life of me, can't remember where--that said that the LOTR audience was split 50/50 genderwise.

But how did they enjoy it? After all, just because someone sees a movie, doesn't mean they like it.

After all, they say that ignorance is bliss--if true, Dubya must be positively orgasmic.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
But how did they enjoy it? After all, just because someone sees a movie, doesn't mean they like it.

Well, if we're doing anecdotal evidence, I'll rely on my fiancee.

She was an even latercomer to LOTR than I, never read the books or anything like them, even more lukewarm about the previous installments--and she loved it.

[monolith94]

Coffe and Cigarettes hasn't even been released in America yet.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

And you might have a point if that were correct... but its not... he was in Coffee and Cigarettes by Jim Jarmusch, for example.

An arty film no one has ever heard of?

It showed at the Toronto International Film Festival in 93, produced before LiT, and eventually got funding, after a while, for a US release... should be out in the middle of the year

Quote:

The point is that he certainly helped Sophia, more than Sophia helped him

And I'm sure Ian McKellan helped Peter Jackson more than Jackson helped him. What is your point again?

Based on what evidence? There's certainly no evidence of Ian McKellan doing any improv, in ROTK.

You're kidding right? Titanic was just about the same forgone conclusion as ROTK was. It was racking up awards and taking names.

Titanic didn't sweep the number of precursors, that ROTK did, and the critical reception from the top reviewers was less than glowing.

So you must be envious to critisize something for 'so long'. I guess we are ALL envious of Titanic here? Are the liberals envious of George Bush?

You're the one that brought up Titanic in a feeble attempt to cast aspersions as to its legacy, or legitimacy. You've been talking it down, for a while, when any and every professional reviewer, guild and association has done nothing but heap praise on it.

Now... that smells like envy to me. If you've got some other reason for advocating against it, I'd love to know.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Based on what evidence? There's certainly no evidence of Ian McKellan doing any improv, in ROTK.

How much improve did Bill Murrey do? You make it seem like 90% was improv, which is utterly silly. Just because you are a LOTR fanboy doesn't mean you gotta bring down the other movies .

Titanic didn't sweep the number of precursors, that ROTK did, and the critical reception from the top reviewers was less than glowing.

Yes, the top reviews didn't love it... wait they DID! And yes, it didn't sweep. It won 11 out of 14 (losing for Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Makeup) Since it was nominated for more, does that mean it was better?

You've been talking it down, for a while, when any and every professional reviewer, guild and association has done nothing but heap praise on it.

Now... that smells like envy to me. If you've got some other reason for advocating against it, I'd love to know.

:rolleyes;

Yes, if anyone criticizes your darling baby, they are all jealous. You sound like the Americans who yell at the French critics of the country of being just jealous!

So no one can say an injustice was done without being accused of jealousy? Jealous of what? I'm not a director or actor. What should I care? Because one of my favorite films didn't win a Oscar? Lemme tell you, boyo, many of my favorite films did not win an Oscar. Seeing the history of the Oscars, that may be a good thing!

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Based on what evidence? There's certainly no evidence of Ian McKellan doing any improv, in ROTK.

How much improve did Bill Murrey do? You make it seem like 90% was improv, which is utterly silly. Just because you are a LOTR fanboy doesn't mean you gotta bring down the other movies .

Significant enough amounts that it was common knowledge through the industry.

Quote:

Titanic didn't sweep the number of precursors, that ROTK did, and the critical reception from the top reviewers was less than glowing.

Yes, the top reviews didn't love it... wait they DID! And yes, it didn't sweep. It won 11 out of 14 (losing for Best Actress, Best Supporting Actress, and Best Makeup) Since it was nominated for more, does that mean it was better?
[/URL]

Again.. that would be nice, if it wasn't actually incorrect... Titanics "Cream of the Crop" (I.E. the top film critics) rated Titanic pretty badly comparitively... 68% fresh, and 7.4 average... almost rotten, and a decidedly mediocre average.

Compare that to the 97% fresh, and 9.4 average of ROTK. Now THAT'S love.

Also, do you even know what a precursor is? In terms of the Oscars, its one of the numerous press organization or professional guild awards, presented prior to the Oscars. It has nothing to do with the actual Oscars, themselves.

:rolleyes;

Yes, if anyone criticizes your darling baby, they are all jealous. You sound like the Americans who yell at the French critics of the country of being just jealous!

So no one can say an injustice was done without being accused of jealousy? Jealous of what? I'm not a director or actor. What should I care? Because one of my favorite films didn't win a Oscar? Lemme tell you, boyo, many of my favorite films did not win an Oscar. Seeing the history of the Oscars, that may be a good thing!

I can still smell the bitterness from a mile off

Why *should* you care... indeed? If you've got nothing invested, why are you still arguing?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Significant enough amounts that it was common knowledge through the industry.

And how much is 'significant enough amounts'? 10% That takes away from Sophia Coppola's great script?

Titanics "Cream of the Crop" (I.E. the top film critics) rated Titanic pretty badly comparitively... 68% fresh, and 7.4 average... almost rotten, and a decidedly mediocre average.

Compare that to the 97% fresh, and 9.4 average of ROTK. Now THAT'S love.

Ah, the Rotten Tomatoes measurement. So Richard Corless is a 'Top Reviewer'? How about Kenneth Turan? Just because they write for the big papers doesn't mean they are top reviewers. How do we know the top reviewers loved it? But how obvious it was that it was going to win the Oscar. If the reviewers didn't like it, it wouldn't have been considered a shoe-in at all.

I can still smell the bitterness from a mile off

Why *should* you care... indeed? If you've got nothing invested, why are you still arguing?

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you is jealous or bitter, I get it. I bet that viewpoint wins you a lot of friends. We just have to accept your opinion and if we continue then we are bitter or jealous. Wonderful .

Of course if I stop talking about the pity party, you'll say you've won the debate because I've stopped posting.

Sorry, people can disagree without being jealous or bitter .

I bet you were bitter the last two years, seeing as you username and avatar shows your utter bias on the matter .

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Significant enough amounts that it was common knowledge through the industry.

And how much is 'significant enough amounts'? 10% That takes away from Sophia Coppola's great script?

Who knows? Regardless, its enough to prove that he was helping Sophia rather than the other way around... and she should get credit for directing him, who was effectively... the film... why?

Quote:

Titanics "Cream of the Crop" (I.E. the top film critics) rated Titanic pretty badly comparitively... 68% fresh, and 7.4 average... almost rotten, and a decidedly mediocre average. Compare that to the 97% fresh, and 9.4 average of ROTK. Now THAT'S love.

Ah, the Rotten Tomatoes measurement. So Richard Corless is a 'Top Reviewer'? How about Kenneth Turan? Just because they write for the big papers doesn't mean they are top reviewers. How do we know the top reviewers loved it? But how obvious it was that it was going to win the Oscar. If the reviewers didn't like it, it wouldn't have been considered a shoe-in at all.

Its the closest measurement we have to a critical consensus, and the only viable method of measuring the general critical love for a film, excluding press association awards... which incidentally ROTK swept, big time, and Titanic, unsurprisingly, didn't.

Yes, anyone who disagrees with you is jealous or bitter, I get it. I bet that viewpoint wins you a lot of friends. We just have to accept your opinion and if we continue then we are bitter or jealous. Wonderful .

Of course if I stop talking about the pity party, you'll say you've won the debate because I've stopped posting.

Sorry, people can disagree without being jealous or bitter .

I bet you were bitter the last two years, seeing as you username and avatar shows your utter bias on the matter .

No... anyone who disagrees with me is either (a)confused (b)bitter or (c) insane

Seriously, I can live with your different opinion, but I'm on pretty solid ground in the argument... Titanic didn't get the mass kudos that ROTK did.

Such a preponderance of the audience, critics and professionals have such high regard for this film in particular, no matter what your feelings are, you have to concede its a (seriously) minority opinion.

Incidentally I'd like to point out that my registration date is pre-LOTR film fever, back in 99... no bandwagon hopping here...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Who knows? Regardless, its enough to prove that he was helping Sophia rather than the other way around... and she should get credit for directing him, who was effectively... the film... why?

No it isn't. How do we know that he was helping Sophia more than she was directing him?

Its the closest measurement we have to a critical consensus, and the only viable method of measuring the general critical love for a film, excluding press association awards... which incidentally ROTK swept, big time, and Titanic, unsurprisingly, didn't.

Titanic won its share of press association awards (including the Golden Globes) and didn't have the symphathy vote on its side for 'passing over the rest'.

Such a preponderance of the audience, critics and professionals have such high regard for this film in particular, no matter what your feelings are, you have to concede its a (seriously) minority opininon.

It's a minor opinion that academy voters thought ROTK was 'due'? I think not!

Incidentally I'd like to point out that my registration date is pre-LOTR film fever, back in 99... no bandwagon hopping here...

I said you were biased, not bandwagon hopping. The fact that it was before the films shows a greater bias.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

Who knows? Regardless, its enough to prove that he was helping Sophia rather than the other way around... and she should get credit for directing him, who was effectively... the film... why?

No it isn't. How do we know that he was helping Sophia more than she was directing him?

Well... based on empirical evidence? Murray's been in dozens upon dozens of films... knows his way around sets, forwards and backwards, is known for his improvisation. Sophia is known for? Her role in GF. She's never directed before, certainly written less comedy than Murray.

What would she be teaching him... or telling him to do, that he's not already done a gazillion times before, groundhog-day-like?

Titanic won its share of press association awards (including the Golden Globes) and didn't have the symphathy vote on its side for 'passing over the rest'.

Titanic's Golden Globes win was utterly predictable. The HFPA is "the" commercial award... more biased to box office than any other.

Apart from that, it got some, but missed others, indicating some disagreement to its ultimate greatness... and casting doubt as to its quality...

There's been no such indication with ROTK. It creamed the competition, period.

It's a minor opinion that academy voters thought ROTK was 'due'? I think not!

Your opinion that LOTR isn't movie greatness is a minority opinion. Particularly, if you're sitting in a room of film critics, or, apparently, MPAA members.

[Imran Siddiqui]

What would she be teaching him... or telling him to do, that he's not already done a gazillion times before, groundhog-day-like?

Where to look, where to sit, stand in the picture. She'd be directing.

There's been no such indication with ROTK. It creamed the competition, period.

Because it was 'due' to win.

Your opinion that LOTR isn't movie greatness is a minority opinion.

And can you point to me anywhere in this thread where I've said the LOTR triology is not good moviemaking?

[Verto]

And can you point to me anywhere in this thread where I've said the LOTR triology is not good moviemaking?

Just answer the question, Tolkien Hater!

[monolith94]

"She's never directed before"

The Virgin Suicides. A very good film. I like it even more than Lost In Translation.

SHAZAM BîTCH!!!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Just answer the question, Tolkien Hater!

[Oncle Boris]

Originally posted by GePap
Not automatically, but it does take more effort to do the 30 story one, and someone who does a GREAT 30 story building deserves more applaud than someone who does a GREAT 5 story apartment, becuase it is more difficult to be great on a large scale.

No. The monologue is the hardest thing to do in Art.

[monolith94]

Movies are not buildings. The analogy is ludicrous and entirely without merit.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lung
God, what a pack of sore losers

Yup, that about sums it up!

And Imran, Guynemer is right about Titanic's critical reviews. From the top critics it received 68% on rotten tomatoes, and RotK got 92% from the top critics. Pretty big gulf. It narrows when you factor in all the lame web critics, but RotK still wins out by about 10%.

Still a dismal indictment of critics that Titanic did as well as that with them.

[MrBaggins]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

What would she be teaching him... or telling him to do, that he's not already done a gazillion times before, groundhog-day-like?

Where to look, where to sit, stand in the picture. She'd be directing.

Typically direction has to do with more than just telling him where to look, where to sit or stand... its to do with getting to compelling performance out of actors, and martialing complex productions... and thats what they award directors for.

Not frame placement, and character cues.

Quote:

There's been no such indication with ROTK. It creamed the competition, period.

Because it was 'due' to win.

It was due to win precursors from press associations? In what way? Why would it be due to win those? Oh... right... because the press thought that the movie was utterly majestic.

Quote:

Your opinion that LOTR isn't movie greatness is a minority opinion.

And can you point to me anywhere in this thread where I've said the LOTR triology is not good moviemaking?

I didn't use the word "good"... I used the word "great".

If you take a scan through the reviews of ROTK, you'll notice reviews that glow. The reviewers were more than just saying this is a good film. They were saying it was a masterful film.

The Academy thinks that the trilogy and this film is a masterpiece too, and richly rewarded it.

You think its "good".

So... If you're sitting in a room with film critics or the Academy, you'd have a minority opinion.