March 4, 2004, 18:53
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#211
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 19:11
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#212
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Deity
Local Time: 13:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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Imran, you're a law student.
If a metal storage building blows into one's backyard, is it required that it be given back, or it kind of a "Finder's Keepers" scenario ?
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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March 4, 2004, 19:19
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#213
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Are you going to be coming into the possession of one? 
I'd think you'd probably have to give it back.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 19:26
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#214
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
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Imran, are you really keeping rankings?
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 4, 2004, 19:31
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#215
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Deity
Local Time: 13:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 27,637
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I am in possession of one.
It doesn't appear to be beaten up too bad, at least in looking out the back door.
Well, I'll tell you one thing, I'm not carrying it anywhere.
They want it, they can come and get it.
__________________
Life is not measured by the number of breaths you take, but by the moments that take your breath away.
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March 4, 2004, 19:35
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#216
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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Yup, getting to be that time of year when the cold weather up north clashes with warmer weather from the south.
ANTLERKOV! I still have 1 valid pick from and need to know if you want him.
I sent Imran a pick in case I'm away
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March 4, 2004, 19:41
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#217
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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win shares are stupid stats. you dont even know what goes into the formula.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 19:43
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#218
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King
Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 2,015
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I have a lot of work to finish tonight. I will probably be able to check in, but just in case it isn't possible, who should I pm my picks to?
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March 4, 2004, 19:43
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#219
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 19:45
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#220
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King
Local Time: 12:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Toasty!
Posts: 2,230
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Exeter Reds' current roster (# in parentheses is 2003 Win Shares):
C: Mike Lieberthal (16)
1B: Richie Sexson (26)
2B: Alfonso Soriano (27)
3B: Corey Koskie (21)
SS: Angel Berroa (16)
CF: Carlos Beltran (28)
OF: Brian Giles (25)
OF: Mike Cameron (21)
U:
SP: Mark Mulder (17)
SP: BK Kim (11?)
SP: Joel Piniero (13)
SP: Wade Miller (9)
RP: Keith Foulke (21)
RP: Troy Percival (8)
Berz: just ignore what you have from me.
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March 4, 2004, 19:48
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#221
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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Imran, are you really keeping rankings?
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Rankings?
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Well, I'll tell you one thing, I'm not carrying it anywhere.
They want it, they can come and get it.
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That's ok. You don't have to pick it up and give it to them, but if they come over and ask for it, you should give it.
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win shares are stupid stats. you dont even know what goes into the formula.
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Just because YOU don't know what goes in the formula, doesn't mean I don't.
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look at team stats.
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Does that account for the fact that Boston has a DH, being part of the lesser league? What about park effects? Differences in pitching between the AL and NL?
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 19:48
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#222
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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the only stat that the Braves lead in is Ks, and they have 10 less than the sox. Over 162, thats 1 K less every 16 games.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 19:49
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#223
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Does that account for the fact that Boston has a DH, being part of the lesser league? What about park effects? Differences in pitching between the AL and NL?
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are those differences taken into account in win shares? i dont think so.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 19:51
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#224
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
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Quote:
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Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
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Imran, are you really keeping rankings?
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Rankings?
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You said LOA was last in your rankings... the problem with that statement is that you could just be yanking his chain, but if you were keeping rankings there is little doubt he would be last.
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 4, 2004, 19:58
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#225
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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are those differences taken into account in win shares? i dont think so.
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Um YES, they are. Park effects, differences from the mean in hitting catagories are both taken into account in the Win Shares system.
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You said LOA was last in your rankings... the problem with that statement is that you could just be yanking his chain, but if you were keeping rankings there is little doubt he would be last.
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Oh, subjective rankings. I have little else ranked. Just some teams I say "That's a good team". LoA's team I just don't think is that good at all.
The problem with total rankings right now is that I don't know some people's drafting strategies, which could eliminate the holes I see now.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
Last edited by Imran Siddiqui; March 4, 2004 at 20:07.
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March 4, 2004, 20:01
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#226
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Emperor
Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: here
Posts: 8,349
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The Love Haters--
C: #6 Mike Piazza (11 win shares)
1B: #1 Todd Helton (34)
2B: #9 Luis Castillo (22)
3B: #2 Scott Rolen (25)
SS: #7 Orlando Cabrera (20)
CF: #3 Preston Wilson (20)
OF: #11 Richard Hidalgo (20)
OF: #14 Juan Gonzalez (10)
U:
SP: #4 Esteban Loaiza (22)
SP: #5 Barry Zito (18)
SP: #10 Livan Hernandez (22)
SP: #13 Woody Williams (13)
RP: #8 Joe Borowski (14)
RP: #12 LaTroy Hawkins (13)
Bear in mind that both Piazza and Gonzalez only played about half a season.
That's all very interesting. One question:
What in the name of high holy hell is a win-share?
__________________
"My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
"Strange is it that our bloods, of colour, weight, and heat, pour'd all together, would quite confound distinction, yet stand off in differences so mighty." --William Shakespeare
"The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud
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March 4, 2004, 20:06
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#227
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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What in the name of high holy hell is a win-share?
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It's a new measure created by Bill James (who has created many states including Runs Created). Basically it is a 'Wins Created' stat.
This is the link to the book:
http://www.stats.com/store/store.asp?page=wins
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 20:32
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#228
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Um YES, they are. Park effects, differences from the mean in hitting catagories are both taken into account in the Win Shares system.
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which is stupid. hitting categories are only as good as the team faced. i bet tiger stadium is ranked as a 'hitters park' but only cuz the pitchers blow.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 20:34
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#229
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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jdd, send them to Imran and me
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March 4, 2004, 20:49
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#230
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Manny = 28
Nomar = 25
Mueller = 23 (with questionable sustainability)
Nixon = 19
Varitek = 17
Ortiz = 15
Walker = 15
Petitte = 15
Baldelli = 14
Lowe = 12
Timlin = 8
Guillen = 20
Nen = DNP
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia; March 4, 2004 at 21:39.
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March 4, 2004, 20:51
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#231
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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R. Ortiz = 16
total = 217 + rob nen
average = 16.7 + robb nen
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia; March 4, 2004 at 21:41.
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March 4, 2004, 20:53
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#232
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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in 02, robb nen had a 15 ws.
so total = 242.0
average = 17.3
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
Last edited by Lawrence of Arabia; March 4, 2004 at 21:43.
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March 4, 2004, 21:10
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#233
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King
Local Time: 12:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Mar 1999
Location: Toasty!
Posts: 2,230
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LoA: Guillen played in both leagues, so his WS are a bit out of whack... he had 3 WS for Oakland, 17 for Cincy, so 20 total.
As for the Tigers' home park...
http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/2003.shtml
Park factors for the '03 Tigers were 95/95 (basically, Comerica decreased RS and RA by about 5%).
Now if you want a team whose performance was really out of whack... go here. Look at the Royals.  (Also note that the Red Sox played 7 games WORSE than their actual W-L record, and that the Braves were better than the Phillies anyway.)
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March 4, 2004, 21:10
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#234
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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hitting categories are only as good as the team faced.
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Indeed, that is why it is compared with the mean pitching ERA of the teams in the league they played against.
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i bet tiger stadium is ranked as a 'hitters park' but only cuz the pitchers blow.
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No, because of runs/game (both teams) compared to the runs/game of teams in other parks (especially the home team).
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 21:39
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#235
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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Quote:
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Indeed, that is why it is compared with the mean pitching ERA of the teams in the league they played against.
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right, so you have a crappy division (like NL West) where the mean ERA is very high. not to mention, when they play interleague, which mean do they use? the mean of the mean? or the median?
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 21:50
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#236
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Emperor
Local Time: 13:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 1999
Location: topeka, kansas,USA
Posts: 8,164
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Are we still waiting on Soul Survivor and then Jdd?
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March 4, 2004, 21:59
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#237
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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right, so you have a crappy division (like NL West) where the mean ERA is very high.
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 They use the mean ERA of all teams that come in and how many earned runs they give up, etc. The mean is the average of runs/game of ALL ballparks and the differences from that to the specific ballpark. How it differs. And you take averages from all the years the park has been in existance.
Here is the mathematical formula:
http://www.baseball-reference.com/ab...rkadjust.shtml
I could copy it here, but it's absolutely massive.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 22:00
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#238
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King
Local Time: 10:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: California Republic
Posts: 1,240
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oh ****, i just remembered that i have his pick
SS picks A. Boone.
__________________
"Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini
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March 4, 2004, 22:01
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#239
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Local Time: 14:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: on the corner of Peachtree and Peachtree
Posts: 30,698
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Quote:
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Are we still waiting on Soul Survivor and then Jdd?
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yep.
__________________
“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)
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March 4, 2004, 22:08
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#240
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Settler
Local Time: 18:41
Local Date: November 2, 2010
Join Date: May 2003
Location: UChicago
Posts: 4
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sorry about the delay I haven't had time to stop by all day
A. Kennedy
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