NFL: Off Season Action

[Frozzy]

'skins have had a terrific off-seasonin the last 2 seasons. In which they have gone 3-13 and 5-11

[Next Gen]

manning is a strong QB but doesn't always play to his full potential

[Frozzy]

Elaborate.

[OzzyKP]

Well I dunno about last season. I think the pickups this year are much better. Plus the biggest pick up of all... Joe Gibbs.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I know in the past you've had problems with making decisions that benefit your team. Do you remember a fellow by the name of Peyton Manning? I'm sure you've heard of him, as he's been one of the best QBs in the league since he was drafted. And I'm sure Ryan Leaf looked like a good QB, so I might be able to forgive that.

Schottenheimer was in the booth when the Chargers drafted Leaf. Beathard was the GM at the time, IIRC. And they couldn't have gotten Manning, Manning was picked #1 by the Colts.

I never heard of him before,

Do you even FOLLOW the NFL?!

[Frozzy]

Who is Clinton Portis?

[Imran Siddiqui]

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


WTF?

Dolphins desparately need a quarterback and for that matter a backup. Fiedler is shi-ite and at best is a second stringer. Griese is a batter2nd string potential than Fiedler.

Dan, Fire Wanstad already!!

Have you been living under a rock?

1) Fiedler is also going to be traded.
2) Griese is NOT the second coming of Elway or Marino
3) Dan Marino quit
4) Feeley is actually a good QB who has the potential to be a starter. Look at his 4th quarter stats, for starters. He'd never start at Philly because of McNabb, but could become a great player for the Dolphins. He can make the plays, and that's all he has to do with that good defense and Ricky Williams.

[Frozzy]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Seriously, I think this is the second-worst move of the off-season, beside the blatant nuking of the 49ers. It is seriously, seriously one-sided in the Broncos direction, and really, is Champ Bailey + 2nd rd early-ish draft pick = Clinton Portis? I think not...

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Frozzy


Have you been living under a rock?

1) Fiedler is also going to be traded.
2) Griese is NOT the second coming of Elway or Marino
3) Dan Marino quit
4) Feeley is actually a good QB who has the potential to be a starter. Look at his 4th quarter stats, for starters. He'd never start at Philly because of McNabb, but could become a great player for the Dolphins. He can make the plays, and that's all he has to do with that good defense and Ricky Williams.

Apparently I have. That would explain the worms in my bed.

1) Fiedler to be traded also? First you wouldn't know by the chummy releases on the Dolphins web site. Dave W. claims he islooking forward to having him back this year.
2) Never claimed he was. I simply claim him better than Fiedler and a better draw for the Dolphins as it is an homage to his old man.
3) Marino quit? What are these mole like creatures doing in my home? Doh!
4) Feeley is a good QB? Maybe. And his potential as a starter describes the potential of Fiedler and Griese. The thought that they don't need a QB but can rely on defense and an excellent running back in Ricky Williams ahs gotten them how far. Same old mantra with above average but not excellent results.

[Brundlefly]

The Cowgirls are all set to acquire Keyshawn Johnson but the trade can only happen if Joey Galloway comes to terms with the Bucs. Galloway wants 6.6 million. Bucs are offering 1 million. Go ahead and sit another year Keyshawn. Kind of hope the trade will happen though because it will be another reason to hate those Cowgirls.

[reismark]

Keyshawn won't be sitting another year. There's no way the Bucs are going to pay him his roster bonus, so if they can't get a deal done for him by April they'll release him outright and take the cap hit. (I also heard that Allen would be willing to deal Key for draft picks if Galloway continues to play hardball.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Seriously, I think this is the second-worst move of the off-season, beside the blatant nuking of the 49ers. It is seriously, seriously one-sided in the Broncos direction, and really, is Champ Bailey + 2nd rd early-ish draft pick = Clinton Portis?

Really?! I thought this was a great trade for the Skins. Portis > Bailey and 2nd rounder. I think Portis is a top 5 back even without the Denver O-Line. Hell, he's better than Davis. Great trade for both teams, who had disgruntled players they needed to get rid of.

Galloway wants 6.6 million. Bucs are offering 1 million.

That's quite a gap .

[reismark]

Galloway will come down. He has to realize that NO ONE is going to pay him that kind of money even as a free agent. I imagine they'll eventually settle on something in the area of $2.5-$3 mil, or at the most, something equal to what Key is getting from Big D (since, after all, they are being traded straight up).

And Imran: I think the reason why most people are claiming Denver made out better with this deal is durability - Champ's shown himself to be tough, while Portis hasn't made it through an entire season without injury yet. Plus, Denver does get that 2nd round draft pick, and if they strike gold with it, the sum does turn out to be better for them. I'm playing wait-and-see to see what Denver does with the pick and how Portis holds up in DC next year before I judge the trade either way. At this point, both teams are filling big needs, so I say they're both winners

[Imran Siddiqui]

He has to realize that NO ONE is going to pay him that kind of money even as a free agent.

You'd think so. Then again, this is Joey Galloway.

Portis hasn't made it through an entire season without injury yet.

Yet ran for 1500 yards even with injury . He's only played 2 seasons, IIRC. So getting minor injuries in both years doesn't show him to be not durable. And Bailey is overpaid (he ain't that great).

[OzzyKP]

I haven't heard anyone say, until now, that Denver got the better side of that deal. Everyone 'round here is excited about getting Portis, and surprized Denver accepted the trade.

[reismark]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
You'd think so. Then again, this is Joey Galloway.

Indeed. But there'll be positive movements on both sides. Bruce Allen knows that this (a speed burner) is what we've been missing all these years from the offense, and he'll move to get the deal done. It's up to Galloway, as far as I'm concerned. I sincerely hope he comes down, because the last thing we need is two big needs (Bruce, for the love of god, TAKE AN RB IN THE FIRST ROUND) going into the draft. Plus, Galloway-McCardell-Jurevicius-Lee would be DEADLY, especially with the right QB...

...and speaking of that, I still haven't decided whether dumping Brad for Jeff Garcia is a good idea. I know Brad struggled at the end of last season, but most of that can be attributed to Alstott's injury and the whole Keyshawn fracas (even though Charles Lee performed super-well in his place, that whole mess tore the team apart emotionally...)

[Brundlefly]

ESPNs John Clayton (ever notice how that guy looks like Mr. Mackey from South Park) is saying that now Keyshawn is likely to go to Dallas for a 4th or 5th in this years draft because Galloway won't take a pay cut. Galloway would be waived..... Love to see the Eagles pick him up - we could use a deep threat...

[Japher]

Keyshawn for a 4th or 5th, must make him feel like a fool... Keyshawn really needs a good dose of reality to bring him down to earth.

My problem with the niner's dismantling the team is not that they are doing, but that they are doing it so drasticlly... At least they are keeping the D pretty much in tack, and selecting a D-ive player as their franchise player is a good move.

What about Palmer being put above Kitna in Cincinnati? I think thats a mistake. Kitna has starter potential, IMO.

Also, in that Portis trade Denver is definitely winning.

Chargers have, once again, dumped half of their team... What the heck are they thinking?

[Imran Siddiqui]

I heard that too. Galloway isn't budging. Like I said, then again, it's Joey Galloway. His ego is massive.

What about Palmer being put above Kitna in Cincinnati? I think thats a mistake. Kitna has starter potential, IMO.

Yeah, that was mistake. If Palmer is better in camp, do it then.

Also, in that Portis trade Denver is definitely winning.

Don't think so. Unless they can use that pick on a great RB in the draft. Otherwise, they'll miss him when their starter is Quenten Griffen.

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
I heard that too. Galloway isn't budging. Like I said, then again, it's Joey Galloway. His ego is massive.

Quote:

What about Palmer being put above Kitna in Cincinnati? I think thats a mistake. Kitna has starter potential, IMO.

Yeah, that was mistake. If Palmer is better in camp, do it then.

Quote:

Also, in that Portis trade Denver is definitely winning.

Don't think so. Unless they can use that pick on a great RB in the draft. Otherwise, they'll miss him when their starter is Quenten Griffen.

I don't think Griffin is going to be a step down for Denver. Denver's offense is geared toward running.

Mike Anderson and Olandis Gary had 1,000 yard seasons in Denver.

If there is ever a case where the system makes the player, it's Denver.

ACK!

[Imran Siddiqui]

It isn't like Portis was a bum! A lot of teams had their eyes on him during the draft. He's got talent.

[Japher]

True, Portis looked like a good RB. Yet, it is hard to tell. Kind of like Aikman as a good QB, IMO... I think to be a good RB you have to prove it on a bad team, at least as far as blocking is concerned. Look at Barry Sanders.

Talent only takes you so far. I hope he does fine, and proves me wrong, but I don't think he is all that he is cracked up to be.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And seeing the type of offense Gibbs likes to run.. I don't think it was that great of a price to get one of the Top 5 RBs in the league.

[Tuberski]

According to the Denver post:

Broncos contact Garner

Ex-Raider may replace Portis

By Adam Schefter
Denver Post Sports Writer

Instead of running through a hole, Charlie Garner is running to the hole Clinton Portis created.

Garner, a former Oakland Raiders running back who is a threat as a receiver and a runner, plans to visit Denver next week and is welcoming the opportunity to play for his primary rival the past three seasons.

"Charlie is so pumped," Garner's agent, Brian Levy, said Wednesday after the Broncos contacted him on the first day NFL teams were allowed to contact and sign free agents.

"He loves coach (Mike) Shana- han, admires his offense. He loves how the Broncos take care of their running backs," Levy said. "That would be an amazing marriage. With Denver's system, it would be scary what type of numbers Charlie would put up."


To procure Garner's services, the Broncos will have to outbid the Tampa Bay Buccaneers and Detroit Lions, teams that have coaches with ties to the free-agent running back. Tampa Bay coach Jon Gruden worked with Garner in Oakland, and Detroit coach Steve Mariucci worked with Garner in San Francisco.

Before finalizing any deals, Levy said he wants Garner, 32, to visit Denver next week.

"How could you not accommodate a team like Denver?" Levy said. "I'd have to be stupid not to try to figure out a way to make it work."

There is a medical question mark. Garner is scheduled to undergo knee surgery Friday for a meniscus tear that he played with last season. Levy said the surgery would sideline Garner two to three weeks, but would not jeopardize his client's chances of being ready for training camp.

Garner's enthusiasm is evident of a larger issue. Now that the Broncos have traded Portis to the Redskins, running backs are looking at Denver as an ideal destination.

"It's fair to say that running backs do desire Denver," said Denver-based agent Lamont Smith, who represents, among others, Tennessee's Eddie George and Pittsburgh's Jerome Bettis. "You have to look at the Broncos' history of success in the running game. It seems to go on despite who you plug into the position.

"Certainly Denver's a team that will commit to the run. That's a big thing in today's era. A lot of the teams out there seem to have moved away from the run and have tried to come forth with these high-tech passing games. But Denver's been a team that's remained committed to the running game. That's a big feather in their cap and a significant lure for any free-agent running back out there."

Garner is a versatile back who twice has rushed for more than 1,000 yards in a season - 1,229 in 1999 and 1,142 in 2000 - both times for the 49ers. His receiving ability makes him difficult to defend.

During the Raiders' run to the Super Bowl in 2002, Garner caught 91 passes for 941 yards. During each of the past five seasons, he has not caught fewer than the 48 receptions he had last year.

Portis rushed for 1,591 yards and caught 38 passes for 314 yards last season. During his rookie season in 2002, Portis rushed for 1,508 yards and caught 33 passes for 364 yards.

While pursuing Garner, Denver could have a difficult time retaining its own free agents.

Broncos defensive end Bertrand Berry arrived in Dallas on Wednesday evening and will spend today meeting with the Cowboys' coaches.

Berry would like to remain in Denver but, as he admitted: "It's the Cowboys, for goodness' sake. Who can't get excited about putting the star on the side of your helmet?"

Broncos outside linebacker Ian Gold also drew interest Wednesday. Gold was arranging a visit next week to the New York Jets. Other teams with outside linebacker needs that could pursue Gold are the Raiders, Jacksonville Jaguars, New York Giants and Seattle Seahawks.

Gold's agent, Carl Poston, said the chance his client would re-sign with the Broncos is remote.

The chance appears greater Garner will wind up in Denver, a prospect not likely to please the Raiders.

"You want to put your client in the best possible situation," Levy said. "You want to make sure he is financially satisfied, but you also don't want him calling you in Week 8 and saying, 'I can't keep losing.'

"And with Charlie in Denver, there's no reason the Broncos shouldn't be one of the top two or three favorites in the AFC this season."

I don't think Garner has the legs anymore.

ACK!

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Funny they got rid of Portis cause they thought he wasn't durable. That was the same knock on Garner at Philly and now he's 32 to boot.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Garner? A former Raider?!!

Wonder how the Broncs fans will like that!

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

a first year qb is not "insurance" because in all likelihood their performance will be poor.

Insurance for the future! Any career backup won't do that great, so if Rattay fails, keep him in and plan to dump him when he gets to Free Agency and you have a QB waiting in the wings.

Btw, the 'Skins just signed Shawn Springs from Seattle (who doesn't care because they have some freaking awesome corners!)

what? thats way too weak. ur basically saying draft unproven qb's until u hit one? ever heard of free agency? To think u have to continually draft "insurance" qbs is inane and utterly simplistic strategy.

sorry, just no dude. just no.

[Imran Siddiqui]

ur basically saying draft unproven qb's until u hit one? ever heard of free agency? To think u have to continually draft "insurance" qbs is inane and utterly simplistic strategy.

Well you don't have anyone that great. Best to draft a QB for the future, in case Rattay doesn't pan out. The 9ers are already facing cap hell, so FA is out.

sorry, just no dude. just no.

Fine. Let Rivers be a star for some other team .

[yavoon]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Quote:

ur basically saying draft unproven qb's until u hit one? ever heard of free agency? To think u have to continually draft "insurance" qbs is inane and utterly simplistic strategy.

Well you don't have anyone that great. Best to draft a QB for the future, in case Rattay doesn't pan out. The 9ers are already facing cap hell, so FA is out.

Quote:

sorry, just no dude. just no.

Fine. Let Rivers be a star for some other team .

rattay is the qb of the future. if he doesn't pan out u seek free agency. u can't keep throwing lotto balls at the qb position dawg. 49ers have enuff other positions in want they dont need to be 3 deep w/ young qb's.