The List : Terraformation

Abdul Alhazred · March 4, 2004, 16:22

In Civ 2 we could terraform iceland to grassland or plains or hills or mountains ...

And in Civ 4 ? Are you for the return or not of this feature ?

Horror i have the temptation to retry Civ 2 Test of Time ...

wrylachlan · March 4, 2004, 16:57

No

Abdul Alhazred · March 4, 2004, 18:38

No to ?

Temptation of Test of Time or Terraformation ?

lajzar · March 4, 2004, 18:39

This has been / is being discussed in the official terrain and terrain improvements thread.

Trifna · March 5, 2004, 23:56

Abdul, List threads can't be created aleatorily. It's organized so if you wish to add a category then give a look at the directory (http://www.apolyton.net/forums/showt...hreadid=105465) and propose it.

Terrain and terrain improvement is just here if you want to discuss the issue: http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...readid=10428a5

Abdul Alhazred · March 6, 2004, 07:23

Delete this thread plz

Fosse · March 6, 2004, 14:45

This isn't "The List" thread. It's the General/Future thread, and anybody can make new ones and call them anything they like. "Official" list threads can only be created by announcing that you're going to do so in the List thread. Legitimate conversation about civ games in general or any future games, such as Civ 4, can be created by anybody at any time.

That being said... I am against terraforming in the game. I want the tech levels to end around 2050, and I don't think that we'll be converting mountains to grasslands anytime in the next 50 years.

Also, in Civ 2 once engineers were avialable the entire landscape turned into the most useful tiles, and the landscape became homogenized and boring. Unrealistic and bad play balancing get a thumbs down from me.

Trifna · March 6, 2004, 17:57

No one will delete the thread since I guess it'd take too much time for managers to delete everything that's not where it should.

Oh, but we wouldn't want you to flee because of our bad manners, so welcome and have a nice visiting of Apolyton

lajzar · March 7, 2004, 00:32

Some terraforming should be allowed. Bear in mind there are three distinct levels of teraforming...

Vegetation - planting/removing forests, jungles, swamps. This should begin to be possible around medieval times tech. Earlier tree cutting didn't really impact the vegetation on a macro scale.

Hydrography - converting deserts to plains to grass and vice versa. This should be posible by modern times. Israel has done a fair job at this.

Geology - levelling and raising mountains. This is not possible with any presently known technology.

Plotinus · March 7, 2004, 01:38

I'll tell you one small change I'd like to see in this area. It annoys me that, until electricity comes along, you can only irrigate if there's a river around. The reason is that it seems to me that the rivers you see on the map are only BIG rivers - after all, there are vast numbers of rivers in Europe that don't get shown in the European conquests maps. These are small rivers and it ought to be possible to irrigate from them. I therefore suggest that it should be possible to irrigate grasslands whether there is a river around or not. However, such irrigation couldn't be carried on to the next tile. You would only be able to irrigate the grassland tile itself, and that would be it. In order to have a "chain" of irrigated tiles, one of them would have to be next to a river on the map.

I think that would nicely simulate the idea that there are small rivers running through grasslands tiles that are not big enough to show on the map. Just my two penn'orth.

Fosse · March 7, 2004, 05:04

What would stop you from irrigating ALL grassland that isn't by a river, then?

Switch · March 7, 2004, 05:18

What Fosse says is right, and I believe that would unbalance the gameplay element. You have to remember that Civ isn't a game necessarily made to model every aspect of civilizations exactly, but more to provide a strategic game based around the rise and fall of civilizations, and passing the test of time. Strategy is the game's #1 priority (or it should be, in any case), with realism only applying when it is unbalancing (though a fine balance tends to be kept).

Just my $0.02 CD (so $0.01 USD).

lajzar · March 7, 2004, 09:48

ok, let's have a varierty of irrigation techs.

irrigation - allows irrigation of any flat open tile (grass/plain/desert) that has a fresh water source.

deep wells (?) - allows irrigation of any grasslands (only) tile, regardless of water source. Probably needs a better name.

terrace farming - allows irrigation of hill tiles if a water source is present.

desalination - allows salt water to be used as a water source for irrigation purposes.

However, a fair case could be made that the fundamental difference between grass and plains is those little rivers, and that that extra irrigation possible from those rivers is already reflected in the basic terrain properties.