Ceasefire!

[FlameFlash]

I got it, you just sent it right as I was logging off so I didn't get it until now.

Hello, captain FlameFlash

Because I am unsure if I did anything wrong in my PM tracking box, this question:

Did you receive my message about the ceasefire talks?

If not, please notify me, so that I can resend it.

Greetings

Geo Beta-2

[FlameFlash]

The message was subsequently resent...

[FlameFlash]

Good,

I hope to get some feedback somewhere this week so details can be discussed in the CyCon forum.

Till later

[FlameFlash]

Following is my suggested reply:

Hello, captain FlameFlash

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm negotiator and Military Affairs Function Geo Beta-2 of the CPU council.

Greetings.

Currently I'm the appointed spokesman for the ceasefire talks between our factions.

I am afraid I have to start these talks with a grief message. In concern with the Hive discovery of a unknown contagious planet virus, we investigated all vessels within our reach of presence with this virus. The schooner crew near Conshelf 57 showed signs of infections, thus we felt compelt to sterilize the whole unit since it was heading directly towards an inhabitated base. The good news is that the transport foil in the same area seemed not to be infected. Hive units are still under investigation on the moment, but CPU is more or less assured that the Hive is firm enough not to allow possible infected units return to harbour. But this must be discussed with the Hive.

Under guises of health concerns or not, the violation of the ceasefire in such an action is deplorable. Health concerns should have been directed to me, Herc, or another PEACE cap'n and allowed for PEACE to take care of the problem.

CPU-council is at the moment in meeting on the sort of allowance to return to PEACE for the unfortunately necessary destruction of the schooner, again, this is also in convergence of the sort of agreements that can be reached with the Hive on the destruction of the colony pod. We are quite concerned about this.

The destruction of the schooner is only related to the destruction of your CP in relation to your thinking that the virus had also infected our schooner. They are, however, two seperate issues and unless CPU does have plans to finish off PEACE (which they should just do now if they do) we expect compensation of an amount of PoEs that will allow for a rush build {here will be inserted how much and for what}.

That brings us to the topic of Crossbone Way.
Since PEACE does not have a second base anywhere, and since in the former proposals a return to sea of PEACE was asked, I propose the following:

Crossbone Way grows it's population to a level 2, builds a colony pod, and starts constructing a new one immediately.
This colony pod will found a new base somewhere north on the coast (I suggest on map grid 59.37), by then the production of Crossbone Way should be finished and the base thus dismantled.
In accordance to your wish of a return to sea, a sea colony pod can be constructed in the new base and used to found a new base on the northern side of the Fossil Field Ridge. That base should be, by CPU wishes, be the southernmost and closest base PEACE will have to CPU territory.

These plans are quite similar to plans that we've already been considering. There shouldn't be any problems.

Utterly, when a new base is founded in the north, the PEACE base on Yardlong island should be dismantled as well.
As for the transport foil around Conshelf 57, for the moment we do not allow it in the Atlantis Ocean, perhaps in a few MY, when trust is regained between our factions, we can escort it in the northern part of that ocean. For now I suggest to move it to the northern peninsula of the isle where your former comrades found such a horrible death.

It needs to be returned to Crossbone Way ASAP and seeing as it is of no threat (immediate or otherwise) to the CPU, especially with the blatant disregard that's been shown thus far for the ceasefire I'm sure you'll understand as we move it to safety away from hostilities but also closer to the one place it would be beneficial to us (back to Crossbone Way).

There is one more wish on behalf of the CPU. As long as any PEACE base is in existence on Yardlong island, we like to see the Pact between the Hive and PEACE be reduced to a Treaty.

While I understand your... annoyance, with the Hive currently, CPU has shown itself to be less trustworthy currently, especially with the breaking of the ceasefire so recent. We simply hope that peace can once again be restored, and this time, more permanently.

I realize that the unfortunate destruction of your schooner does not do much to gain your trust at this time, but think of this:
We did not attack any further on any other PEACE unit this year, while we easily could have done so.

That is of little comfort as the only PEACE unit that would have helped us come out of our existance being threatened as much as it currently is was smited.

In the hope that the Hive will wisen up and answers positively at our communications with them, I conclude this message.

Geo Beta-2
Military Affairs Function and negotiator of the CPU

And it is our hope that Hive actions will no longer be misconstrued to be PEACE actions, yet PEACE will continue to do business with the faction that has proven itself to be the more trustworthy at the current level and can only hope compensation for the schooner comes within the next year.

FF

[Hercules]

Why not. A positive response in the circumstances. But when / if the Hive/ Drone offensive starts in 2160 , we will likely be a victim.

[Makahlua]

Quick summary:

Ran into Impaler[WrG] in 'Poly chat and I and he hammered out a few things (and I apologize for usurping your job FlameFlash it was just one of those chance meetings that had a some results. ) I'll post the full log sepearetly, note that Trith (the new guy to the rest of you) was also there doing a lot of debate with Impaler. I'm just covering the notabel diplomacy points, but I will add this snippet:

[03:02] Impaler[WrG]> even when said help comes from a Faction that helped cause their downfall
[03:02] Makahlua> and can you blame us for not looking to you, considering?
[03:02] Impaler[WrG]> no we arnt suprised
[03:03] Makahlua> Could you be specific about that downfall bit? This vagueness is slightly anooying (my guess ; they fed you troop movements via the pact)
[03:04] Impaler[WrG]> yes the Hive gave us info on you, we have said this in the forum several times when they started the Counsil motions
[03:04] Impaler[WrG] >not that we realy needed the info much
[03:04] Impaler[WrG] >It came 2 years before our attack
[03:05] Impaler[WrG] >though it did help us avert infiltration by your Probe Ships
[03:05] Makahlua> I -thought- something wa odd about thet. heh.

/me raises an eyebrow - interesting, no?

Ok, the salient points:
- CyCon wants to buy off our crawlers instead of us having to sail down to take them, proposed price was 60 PoE not sure if that was for both together or per. But they do agree to leave us in control of them untill we get our CP's off Yardarm. Did also warn that there will be a probe team landed nearby in the next turn awaiting the takeover of the crawlers.

-No objections to the FFRidge Naval base, or to my proposed 'canal' site on Bones; matter of fact he pointed to the square south first and I noted the a move north netted us a energy special too. Also they would consider the other north isles PEACE territory; he did point out a bump I'd noted in the nor'east that might not be claimed by the Drones yet.

- They are more worried about Hive using us for staging and attack; I think we will need to figure out a way to assure that's not a problem, and the only -certain- way I know is to drop to treaty (though CyCOn has no bjection to us being Pacted with the Hive them)

- I do beleive I agreed to at least give our next tech (PolySoft) gratis as a balance to all the freebies we got from the Hive. Won't be getting that for quite awhile but I'm hoping that opens the door for future reestablishment of trading.

- related tothe above, we would restablish treaty status after we get off Yardarm. They are in no hurry, since they would not get much, but we'll need all the commerce we can get.

- the basic plan is get aht CP out in 4 turns, have the 'sport pick it up (about 7 turns from now) and it and one rover go over to the designated site, then when that base is up, build the second CP to disband Xbone and take the rest of the units off. CyCon does know our current movement plan so suprise attacks should be ruled out. ......... we hope

And that's the short version

[Makahlua]

The chat log:

[02:51] Impaler[WrG]> hello their
[02:51] Trithemius|> hello maki!
[02:51] Trithemius|> er
[02:51] * Makahlua pokes Paddy
[02:51] Trithemius|> maka!
[02:51] Makahlua> don't tell me you're demogaming again : O
[02:51] Makahlua> Hey Trith
[02:51] Impaler[WrG]> I was just discussing the Cycon/Hive/Pirate situation with Trith
[02:52] Makahlua> yeah, atalk about mixed messages :/
[02:52] Trithemius|> I advocating a modus vivendi between CC and PEACE
[02:52] Impaler[WrG]> Just so you know I am in the "peace camp" of Cycon and am trying to negotiate a peace settlement between the 3 or us
[02:52] Trithemius|> The Hive seems to be a most interesting game
[02:53] Trithemius|> I should have joined them Maki :0
[02:53] Impaler[WrG]> yes I must admit the Hive has made this game fun
[02:53] * Trithemius| is in the Chairman Yang Fan-Club :0
[02:53] Impaler[WrG]> I dont see why PEACE dosent just unifi like we did with Uni
[02:53] Makahlua> Maybe you'll get a chance next DG Trith ^^
[02:53] Impaler[WrG]> you have only 1 base so their not much to do
[02:53] Makahlua> someon -always- wants the Hive
[02:54] Impaler[WrG]> its cause their are so many Comies here at Apolyton (and people who eroniously think the Hive is Comunist)
[02:54] Trithemius|> If the Hive is Communist then so is the PRC
[02:55] Makahlua> I'd say probably because you were asking so soon after the war broke out; under less heated circumstances, we might've come to a differnt conclusion
[02:55] Makahlua> but first it was the tech trade, then the suprise war and now this.
[02:55] Impaler[WrG]> tec trade?
[02:55] Impaler[WrG]> you mean when ya gave your tecs to the Hive?
[02:55] Makahlua> The whole mess with Doc:Init back when I first became turn player
[02:56] Impaler[WrG]> well that was done just as I joined
[02:56] Impaler[WrG]> we coundnt resist the pre-accepted tec
[02:56] Trithemius|> Bad idea.
[02:56] Impaler[WrG]> and you must admit it was the right move seeing how things turned out
[02:57] Trithemius|> With the Cyber Con you should be able to get into a tech-dealing position, especially if you gank the University..
[02:57] Impaler[WrG]> We already have University
[02:57] Trithemius|> Best not to burn bridges unless you are going to burn down everything else too.
[02:58] Impaler[WrG]> Peace should have accepted that offer we made them to unify with us
[02:58] Makahlua> Trith - Uni basically retired and CyCOn plays them now. Soit's kind of a 3 way between Hive/Draones/Cycon really.
[02:58] Impaler[WrG]> but they turned us down and we instead offered to Uni
[02:58] Trithemius|> PEACE's advantage is in that they are not unified with anyone, surely that is obvious?
[02:58] Impaler[WrG]> vs the Disadvantage of having 1 base, ummmmm not that great of a situation
[02:59] Impaler[WrG]> PEACE is now caught up in the Hive/Cycon relationship
[02:59] Impaler[WrG]> they realy dont control their own fate anymore
[02:59] Trithemius|> I hate to get snarky but you seem to lack vision Impaler.
[02:59] Trithemius|> Its not a question of PEACE's independence, but rather who controls them.
[03:00] Trithemius|> Currently there is not alternative to the Hive.
[03:00] Trithemius|> er
[03:00] Trithemius|> no alternative.
[03:00] Trithemius|> Long day >_<
[03:01] Impaler[WrG]> well yes its true the Pirates will accept any help they can get
[03:01] Trithemius|> Sadly, the CyCon has made it hard for PEACE to accept a deal, because of their previous dealings.
[03:02] Impaler[WrG]> even when said help comes from a Faction that helped cause their downfall
[03:02] Makahlua> and can you blame us for not looking to you, considering?
[03:02] Impaler[WrG]> no we arnt suprised
[03:03] Trithemius|> I think that the CyCon, if it wishes to pursue a relationship with PEACE needs to stop apportioning blame and start piling things onto the table.
[03:03] Makahlua> Could you be specific about that downfall bit? This vagueness is slightly anooying (my guess ; they fed you troop movements via the pact)
[03:03] Trithemius|> The past is largely irrelevant.
[03:03] Trithemius|> Claiming th Hive helped shank PEACE is pointless, especially now that the Hive has changed policy and is aiding PEACE.
[03:04] Trithemius|> (As far as I know)
[03:04] Impaler[WrG]> yes the Hive gave us info on you, we have said this in the forum several times when they started the Counsil motions
[03:04] Impaler[WrG]> not that we realy needed the info much
[03:04] Impaler[WrG]> It came 2 years before our attack
[03:05] Impaler[WrG]> though it did help us avert infiltration by your Probe Ships
[03:05] Makahlua> I -thought- something wa odd about thet. heh.
[03:06] * Paddy has quit IRC (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[03:06] Impaler[WrG]> Well I belive we have gained all the advantage we can out of the war with PEACE
[03:06] Impaler[WrG]> and we can now alow PEACE to travel north and resettle on Fossil Field Ridge
[03:07] * Paddy has joined #Apolyton
[03:07] Impaler[WrG]> It all depends on the Hives actions though
[03:07] Trithemius|> See. Now is the opportunity for CyCon to forge a relationship with PEACE. I am sure that the CyCon can afford certain concessions to expedite PEACE's rebuilding.
[03:07] Impaler[WrG]> if PEACE wants to live they should ask the Hive to agree to our proposal
[03:07] Trithemius|> The Hive is unimportant.
[03:08] Impaler[WrG]> no the Hive is THE desiding factor
[03:08] Trithemius|> At least in this matter, I would not associate PEACE and the Hive.
[03:08] Trithemius|> It is plainly a ploy on the Hive's part to distract you. I hate to spell it out so, but it seems abundantly clear to me.
[03:08] Impaler[WrG]> if the Hive rejects our offer we will likly be forces to eliminate PEACE
[03:09] Trithemius|> I see no connection between Hive's refusal and PEACE. You presume that PEACE can effect Hive policy, surely it is plain to see that this is not the case?
[03:09] Trithemius|> The Hive did not consult with PEACE before attacking the CyCon. Why should they consult with PEACE on any matter?
[03:10] Impaler[WrG]> If the Hive refuses to warm relations then we will Eliminate PEACE so that the Hive cant use their bases as a staging area for attacks on us
[03:10] Trithemius|> This seems pointless. Surely a war with the Hive is unavoidable?
[03:10] Impaler[WrG]> We hope that it is not
[03:10] Makahlua> the only way I know to work that is to drop to Treay with them. not sure how that will go over :/
[03:11] Trithemius|> The prudent course would appear to be to foster PEACE and allow it to become client of the CyCon so that they can assist in a future conflict.
[03:11] Impaler[WrG]> If they make the nessary reperations and gestures at this point I belive they can be fogiven
[03:12] Makahlua> Imp- if we did drop to treaty would that be considered enough distance to not make our elimination mandatory?
[03:12] Impaler[WrG]> Treaty would prevent them from using your base for staging true
[03:12] Trithemius|> Transfer of bases to non critical locations would also do this.
[03:13] Trithemius|> And..
[03:13] Trithemius|> Hrm.
[03:13] Impaler[WrG]> likly the other Cycons will one the move north
[03:13] Trithemius|> Are there any Hivers here?
[03:13] Impaler[WrG]> no they left a ways back
[03:13] Impaler[WrG]> too bad we couldn't have a 3 way
[03:13] Trithemius|> No nonaligned lurkers?
[03:13] Trithemius|> No no
[03:13] Trithemius|> We do not want to involved the Hive in any possible PEACE/CyCon agreement.
[03:13] Impaler[WrG]> If PEACE moves north it could probly stay Pacted to Hive
[03:14] Impaler[WrG]> so long as the Hive dosent station units their bases
[03:14] Makahlua> Trith - we have the beginings of an agreement to move north in to the Sargasso, away from Hive/Cycon
[03:15] Impaler[WrG]> We might persuade Hive to accept PEACE as a vassel state in exchange for a warming of the Hive/Cycon relationship
[03:15] Trithemius|> Hrm. I am having trouble with no map.. bear with me as I try and figure this out.
[03:15] Impaler[WrG]> PEACE is currently between the other 2
[03:15] Trithemius|> Well, I suggest that the CyCon be magnanimous and generous.
[03:16] Impaler[WrG]> trust me we are
[03:16] Trithemius|> That way PEACE may be converted to CyCon's cause, instead of simply remaining neutral.
[03:16] Impaler[WrG]> I dont entertain any illusion of PEACE coming to our side
[03:16] Trithemius|> I am unaware of the scope of the agreement so far.
[03:16] Trithemius|> Illusion?
[03:16] Trithemius|> It could be reality.
[03:17] Impaler[WrG]> at Best Hive and Cycon and coperate and PEACE is vassel of Hive
[03:17] Trithemius|> No.
[03:17] Makahlua> at least we could get back to more noraml trading.
[03:17] Trithemius|> At best , for you, PEACE is an ally against the Hive, if needed.
[03:17] Trithemius|> Possibly an ally that the Hive does not expect the CyCon to have.
[03:17] Impaler[WrG]> we would rather be alied WITH the Hive
[03:18] Trithemius|> Are you superior in economy and military to the Hive?
[03:18] Impaler[WrG]> PEACE would be a weak and nearly worthless alie
[03:18] Impaler[WrG]> no inferior
[03:18] Trithemius|> Are you certain?
[03:18] Impaler[WrG]> yes
[03:18] Trithemius|> Then why not launch an offensive against them?
[03:19] Impaler[WrG]> We havent attacked the Hive!
[03:19] Makahlua> hey, whose side are you on? ^^
[03:19] Impaler[WrG]> they attacked US
[03:19] Trithemius|> THEY HAVE ATTACKED YOU!
[03:19] Trithemius|> Precisely.
[03:19] Trithemius|> I'm on PEACE's side
[03:19] Impaler[WrG]> yes I can see
[03:20] Trithemius|> Currently PEACE is with the Hive because CyCon has attacked PEACE and the Hive has offered aid.
[03:20] Impaler[WrG]> We at Cycon want to have a Coop with the Hive
[03:20] Trithemius|> As far as I am concerned, that is the reason.
[03:20] Impaler[WrG]> yes and thats why Hive/Cycon relations soured
[03:20] Trithemius|> You wish to co-operate with someone who seems to be provoking you into a war.
[03:21] Trithemius|> Is it possible that the Hive only want to use PEACE as a pretext for war?
[03:21] Impaler[WrG]> yes becuase if we both go into war then the Drones will benifit greatly
[03:21] Impaler[WrG]> Many cyborgs think that
[03:21] Impaler[WrG]> We will let PEACE rebuild if the Hive warms to us
[03:22] Impaler[WrG]> in return we can Coperate with the Hive to mutualy strength both factions rather then weaken them
[03:22] Impaler[WrG]> what do you think Makahlua?
[03:23] Impaler[WrG]> with PEACE agree to move north and maintain a non threatening stance towards the Cycon
[03:23] Trithemius|> It is senseless to make the PEACE relationship conditional on the Hive, when you are still unsure of the nature of your relationship with the hive.
[03:24] Impaler[WrG]> We dont realy care about PEACE as long as its not a threat
[03:24] Impaler[WrG]> If the Hive wants to control their destiny we are willing to alow this
[03:24] Trithemius|> Impaler, you have a binary view of PEACE.
[03:25] Trithemius|> It could be converted to an asset that is loyal to CyCon.
[03:25] Makahlua> move north is aready what we want to do, non threatening is not a problem, thought we may need to establish what you consider nonthreatening in terms of potentil future forces (like police, explorers that sort of thing) but it shouldn't be a problem.
[03:25] Makahlua> i really doubt we'll be warring anyone soon ^^
[03:25] Trithemius|> It is not currently useful, but by helping it become useful you gain an ally.
[03:25] Trithemius|> What if the Hive AND the Drones want a war?
[03:25] Trithemius|> Can that be ruled out?
[03:25] Impaler[WrG]> well then were probably screwed
[03:26] Impaler[WrG]> both thouse factions are double us on the power graph
[03:26] Trithemius|> Surely you can see the use in cultivating PEACE as an ally then?
[03:26] Trithemius|> Especially if PEACE is also trusted by the Hive?
[03:27] Trithemius|> I put it to you that all that matters is the price.
[03:27] Trithemius|> Prove that the CyCon are good friends, and PEACE can, I believe, be bought.
[03:27] Impaler[WrG]> no not realy because as I have said PEACE has been so desimated by our war that their not in a position to help or hurt ANYONE for atleast 10 or 20 turns
[03:27] Trithemius|> They are -pirates- afterall.
[03:27] Trithemius|> So, wait ten turns?
[03:28] Trithemius|> Better to work for ten turns and have something. Than to not work for ten turns and have nothing.
[03:28] Impaler[WrG]> Even after that it would be a LONG LONG time before their back up to even being significant
[03:28] Impaler[WrG]> We value the Hive relations more at this point
[03:28] Makahlua> yeah i tihnk we're down to being the fairly neutral resaerch faction ^^
[03:28] Trithemius|> Well, hate to say it, but: who's fault is that?
[03:29] Trithemius|> I still say that there is a good chance that the Hive does not value your relations
[03:29] Impaler[WrG]> perhaps it dose not
[03:29] Trithemius|> and that they are stalling you by using PEACE as a "chump blocker" so they can gear their economy up.
[03:29] Impaler[WrG]> Our offer lets them show what they value
[03:29] Impaler[WrG]> no actualy they have geared up Militarily

[Makahlua]

Part 2:

[03:30] Trithemius|> Are you going to base your foreign policy on "Maybe they will be nice to us?"
[03:30] Impaler[WrG]> We hope they will chosse coperation over war
[03:30] Impaler[WrG]> if not then we will simply have to fight them in a war
[03:31] Impaler[WrG]> and in such a war PEACE would likly be eliminated as its an Alie of the Hive
[03:32] Trithemius|> And then the Hive will be bogged down in a war with CyCon,
[03:32] Impaler[WrG]> By accepting the Hives help PEACE has made its survival conditional on the Hive relationship
[03:32] Impaler[WrG]> thats good for PEACE IF the Hive/Cycon relationship improves
[03:32] Trithemius|> except that the CyCon has had to rub out PEACE and the Hive is undistracted.
[03:32] Impaler[WrG]> and Bad for them if it deteriorates into war
[03:32] Trithemius|> What if the Drones join in, on the side of the Hive?
[03:32] Trithemius|> Or if they join in to defend PEACE?
[03:33] Impaler[WrG]> Drones are too far away to affect PEACE
[03:33] Trithemius|> You are handing them a prextext for war with no gain, and are attempting to use PEACE for a purpose that they unsuited to.
[03:33] Impaler[WrG]> we aren't handing anyone a pretext
[03:34] Impaler[WrG]> the Hive chosse to bring a faction that we were at war with under its wing
[03:34] Trithemius|> You have your opinion on this matter, clearly.
[03:34] Trithemius|> Impaler... Why would the Hive do that...
[03:34] Trithemius|> especially AFTER helping you go to war with them?
[03:34] Impaler[WrG]> but as we have already concoured most of PEACE and value good relations with the Hive we can see fit to let the Hive keep them as a Vassel
[03:35] Impaler[WrG]> The Hive did recive a bunch of Tecs form the Pirates
[03:35] Makahlua> would you like the same as a gesture of neutrality? I tihnk we could arange that.
[03:35] Trithemius|> My point is: PEACE is, at best, a possible CyCon ally and, at worst, utterly unimportant
[03:35] Impaler[WrG]> A nice move on their part, reaping the benifits of our successfull war
[03:36] Trithemius|> Either you forge an agreement with PEACE or you ignore them and strike at the Hive before the Hive feels ready to strike at you.
[03:36] Impaler[WrG]> What do you say to that Makahlua, any potential for that?
[03:36] Trithemius|> Anything else is wasting your time.
[03:36] Impaler[WrG]> And I belive we have all the Pirates tecs already
[03:37] Impaler[WrG]> or did you mean future tecs?
[03:38] * Trithemius| pauses and rests his wrists
[03:39] Makahlua> let me look here (i have the turn open atm hehe)
[03:39] Trithemius|> The more I consider this situation, the more I am convinced that the Hive is engineering this entire situation.
[03:39] Impaler[WrG]> oh that reminds me
[03:40] Trithemius|> Both CyCon and PEACE are only responding to the Hive; PEACE has no option, CyCon does though.
[03:40] Impaler[WrG]> we want that Crawler down near MegaByteVille
[03:40] * settler2 has joined #apolyton
[03:40] * settler2 has quit IRC (Quit: settler2)
[03:40] Impaler[WrG]> could you agree to turn it over to us at some point?
[03:40] Makahlua> ahh, so you do have then all. we could certainly do that with future techs though- fill in the gaps with ones to skip for whatever reason
[03:41] Impaler[WrG]> I think your current rserch is still NLM right?
[03:41] Impaler[WrG]> remember we have automatic tec steal when we take a base
[03:41] Trithemius|> Folks, I have to go. Public transport is a pain.
[03:41] Makahlua> actually it's on polymorphic software
[03:41] Impaler[WrG]> oh you switched?
[03:42] Trithemius|> Impaler, don't rule out diplomatic solutions with PEACE, and don't rule out military solutions with the HIve.
[03:42] Trithemius|> Maki, seeya!
[03:42] Impaler[WrG]> later
[03:42] Makahlua> later Trith!
[03:42] Makahlua>
[03:42] Impaler[WrG]> ok well we can use Poly Soft we dont have it yet
[03:42] * Trithemius| has quit IRC (Quit: Study generates Knowledge; Knowledge prepares Love; Love, Similarity; Similarity, Communion; Communion, Virtue; Virtue, Dignity; Dignity, Power; and Power performs the Miracle.)
[03:42] Makahlua> Imp - we got it from the Hive IIRC
[03:42] Impaler[WrG]> thats what I figured
[03:43] Impaler[WrG]> how long untill you reserch PolySoft, probly ages
[03:43] Makahlua> 9999 right now :/
[03:43] Impaler[WrG]> yes
[03:44] Makahlua> on the crawler, i'm not sure. we're so strapped for any kind of income, we'll need them over in the new territiory.
[03:44] Impaler[WrG]> well perhaps some time in the future when PEACE reserch output is better you can finish it or be sent Poly SOft and you tec switch to something else
[03:44] Makahlua> I'm wanting to send our transport back that way to get them
[03:44] Impaler[WrG]> if Hive agrees then we might alow your transports over their
[03:45] Impaler[WrG]> as for the moment I sugjest you move the transport towards CrossBone
[03:45] Impaler[WrG]> It can then be used to pick up the Colony Pod and move it north
[03:46] Makahlua> would you prefer back past roze or north around that isle? either way suits, but I don't want to get nailed for going the wrong way :acared:
[03:46] Impaler[WrG]> well its just a harmless transport
[03:46] Impaler[WrG]> if your conserned then go north as thats farther from us
[03:47] Impaler[WrG]> we will likly be moving back to Atlantis is the Hive desides on being peacefull
[03:47] Makahlua> i amy do that. gets us away from the current conflict zone at least.
[03:47] Impaler[WrG]> Also that unit your making in CrossBone
[03:47] Impaler[WrG]> will you change that to a Colony Pod?
[03:48] Impaler[WrG]> its still a few more turns intill the base grows correct?
[03:48] Makahlua> yes only a 2 min loss right now, and it should be ready to pop out in a few more turns (pop growth then)
[03:48] Makahlua> 4 turns to be exact
[03:49] Impaler[WrG]> ok good that Pod can be picked up by your transport and taken north
[03:49] Impaler[WrG]> then a second Pod will disband Cross bone and the transport can return to pick it up and found a second base in the norht
[03:50] Impaler[WrG]> that should get you settled faster then the orginal plan of using a SeaPod, their so expensive
[03:50] * Makahlua nods
[03:50] Impaler[WrG]> And you can pick up your Rover and send it off to Pop the Pods on Dino Island
[03:50] Makahlua> we'll still probably make the FFridge our first new seabase, if that's still alright?
[03:51] Impaler[WrG]> yes sea base in the near coastal areas of the Northern Arcipeligo will be fine
[03:52] Impaler[WrG]> We will keep the Desert Island and Cyon territory and everthing to the north will the PEACE terriory
[03:52] Makahlua> good
[03:53] Impaler[WrG]> we will still need to deside the posesion of the 2 islands near Angel terriotry
[03:53] Impaler[WrG]> likly they will go to the Hive or Cycon
[03:55] Makahlua> wellm we've got Bones and DIno, not much but they'll do
[03:55] Makahlua> maybe you should each take one?
[03:55] Impaler[WrG]> yes and I belive their may be some more territory to the east of them
[03:55] Impaler[WrG]> towards the Drones
[03:56] * Makahlua nods
[03:56] Impaler[WrG]> see the lump at (63/5)
[03:56] Makahlua> eys i see the 'bumps' int he map that way
[03:56] Impaler[WrG]> ok then as for our treaty status
[03:57] Impaler[WrG]> were interested in Comerce if its agreeable to you
[03:57] Makahlua> we can use all engergy we can get right now
[03:57] Impaler[WrG]> at some point in the future Treaty status between us would bee a good idea
[03:57] Impaler[WrG]> yes we see the Hives been suplying you with some
[03:58] Makahlua> Probably after we get off Desert isle? or would you need it sooner?
[03:58] Impaler[WrG]> theirs no rush on our part as the trade income would be so small
[03:58] Makahlua> yes, bad me i forgot to send back the extra last time
[03:58] Impaler[WrG]> oh clever, you were concealing it that way
[03:59] Impaler[WrG]> by the way
[03:59] Makahlua> well it was more 'use waht you need and send the rest back so it doesnt get probed"
[03:59] Impaler[WrG]> Have the Drones been in comunication with you?
[03:59] * WIA has joined #apolyton
[03:59] Impaler[WrG]> hey their
[04:00] Makahlua> not since the council election IIRC
[04:00] WIA> Hello
[04:00] Makahlua> heya WIA
[04:00] Impaler[WrG]> now I am negotiation with the Pirates
[04:00] WIA> Greetings Maki
[04:00] Impaler[WrG]> I am Mr Diplomacy today
[04:00] * Makahlua is much more 'logical' after eating and sleeping
[04:00] Impaler[WrG]> We think the Drones are just being run by Buster now
[04:00] WIA> Yeah, jtsisyoda occasionally posts, but not much
[04:01] Impaler[WrG]> like a solo game, no team
[04:01] Makahlua> yeah considering the speed of their turns, he doesn't have to consult all the time like me ;P
[04:01] Impaler[WrG]> We dont realy want to see them win if possible
[04:01] Impaler[WrG]> they havent lived up to the spirit of the game in our opinion
[04:02] Impaler[WrG]> no roleplaying or anything like that
[04:02] Makahlua> Yes they've been remarkably quiet except for jtsisyoda
[04:02] Impaler[WrG]> hey you know if you put your base at (55,25) you could harvest the Fossil Field Ridge imediatly
[04:03] Makahlua> true, but then i miss half fo it too heh.
[04:03] ofcorse it will need some kelp
[04:03] oh yes unfortunatly
[04:04] (51/31) would make a nice Canal base
[04:04] i'm looking at 52,30 for that fist base; nut square and engery square
[04:04] yes that would be better and still serve as a canal
[04:04] hee. thinking alike here
[04:05] I had Cycon build a similar Canal Base
[04:05] Impaler[WrG]> we called it And/Or Gate
[04:05] Makahlua> cure ^^
[04:05] Makahlua> *cute
[04:06] Impaler[WrG]> ok anything else that need doing?
[04:07] Makahlua> not that i can see, I'll post this log (and or a summary) to the diplo thread (and hope ff doesn't kick me for ursurping his job....)
[04:07] Impaler[WrG]> Hopefully the Hive will agree to my proposals and we can have peace between all of us
[04:08] Makahlua> we do need to discuss the crawlers at some point, but i'm seeing our 'sport will be tied up a bit.
[04:08] * Makahlua hoipes so too.
[04:08] Impaler[WrG]> well you should know that if we have the potential to mind control it
[04:08] Impaler[WrG]> so an agreement for us to buy it would probly be in your best interest
[04:09] * Makahlua nods
[04:09] Impaler[WrG]> we can agree to leave it under your control for a wial longer if we have an agreement
[04:09] Impaler[WrG]> to have it at some point
[04:10] Makahlua> we can always use the creds for rushing, and yes, please do, we need the mins to build the cp's in a timely manner
[04:10] Impaler[WrG]> I realize that
[04:10] Impaler[WrG]> dont be alarmed though if you see a Probe Team standing next to it next turn
[04:11] Makahlua> i'll -try- not too o.O
[04:11] Makahlua> latting us know in advance is a good step though. b::
[04:11] Impaler[WrG]> 60 Credits would be a resonable price yes no?
[04:12] Makahlua> that i'll have to kick to people with better $$ sense than me, but will let you know before any turn stuf is posted
[04:12] Makahlua> (or flamefalsh will)
[04:12] Impaler[WrG]> ok
[04:12] Impaler[WrG]> Lastly I hope none of your members have any perminent grudges against us
[04:13] Impaler[WrG]> it is just a game after all and we will likly be playing together in the next Democracy game
[04:13] Makahlua> no, it's nothing personal we just get fired up at times - which is a ggod thing because it means we care

(and then we went off into mostly unleated things like the Civ3demo game, and the cute name Paddy thought up for the latest city ............. "Where It Was Mister"

[Trithemius]

Eeek.

Immortalised in print already. I hope I was not exceeding my authority by talking with Impaler. I'm happy to be assigned diplomatic donkey-work by the Pirate-In-Charge-Of-Fibbing (Foreign Affairs Minister).

[Hercules]

No interesting discussions. And it is something perhaps we should have been engaged in much earlier.

[Hercules]

And this:

About PEACE migration plans

Hi, captain Hercules

Since your turn is due to be posted within several hours, I wondered if PEACE wishes to elaborate further on the
decisions they made regarding Crossbone Way and diplomatic solutions in the CPU-PEACE war.

Greetings
Geo Beta-2, CPU-negotiator

[FlameFlash]

Following is my reply:

Hello, captain FlameFlash

Allow me to introduce myself, I'm negotiator and Military Affairs Function Geo Beta-2 of the CPU council.

Greetings.

Currently I'm the appointed spokesman for the ceasefire talks between our factions.

I am afraid I have to start these talks with a grief message. In concern with the Hive discovery of a unknown contagious planet virus, we investigated all vessels within our reach of presence with this virus. The schooner crew near Conshelf 57 showed signs of infections, thus we felt compelt to sterilize the whole unit since it was heading directly towards an inhabitated base. The good news is that the transport foil in the same area seemed not to be infected. Hive units are still under investigation on the moment, but CPU is more or less assured that the Hive is firm enough not to allow possible infected units return to harbour. But this must be discussed with the Hive.

Under guises of health concerns or not, the violation of the ceasefire in such an action is deplorable. Health concerns should have been directed to me, Herc, or another PEACE cap'n and allowed for PEACE to take care of the problem.

CPU-council is at the moment in meeting on the sort of allowance to return to PEACE for the unfortunately necessary destruction of the schooner, again, this is also in convergence of the sort of agreements that can be reached with the Hive on the destruction of the colony pod. We are quite concerned about this.

The destruction of the schooner is only related to the destruction of your CP in relation to your thinking that the virus had also infected our schooner. They are, however, two seperate issues and unless CPU does have plans to finish off PEACE (which they should just do now if they do) we expect compensation of an amount of PoEs that will allow for a rush build.

As per talks regarding not picking up our crawlers but having the CPU purchase them, we were wondering if the 60 PoEs mentinoed were for both or for each, though the option is looked at very highly either way, a total of 200 PoEs for the lost schooner and two crawlers would be appreciated. Either given after, or before we get off of yardarm and out of CPU's back yard.

That brings us to the topic of Crossbone Way.
Since PEACE does not have a second base anywhere, and since in the former proposals a return to sea of PEACE was asked, I propose the following:

Crossbone Way grows it's population to a level 2, builds a colony pod, and starts constructing a new one immediately.
This colony pod will found a new base somewhere north on the coast (I suggest on map grid 59.37), by then the production of Crossbone Way should be finished and the base thus dismantled.
In accordance to your wish of a return to sea, a sea colony pod can be constructed in the new base and used to found a new base on the northern side of the Fossil Field Ridge. That base should be, by CPU wishes, be the southernmost and closest base PEACE will have to CPU territory.

These plans are quite similar to plans that we've already been considering. There shouldn't be any problems. We are estimating approximately 7+ turns to get Crossbone and everything off of Yardarm, probably more in the '+' range, unfortunately.

Utterly, when a new base is founded in the north, the PEACE base on Yardlong island should be dismantled as well.
As for the transport foil around Conshelf 57, for the moment we do not allow it in the Atlantis Ocean, perhaps in a few MY, when trust is regained between our factions, we can escort it in the northern part of that ocean. For now I suggest to move it to the northern peninsula of the isle where your former comrades found such a horrible death.

It needs to be returned to Crossbone Way ASAP and seeing as it is of no threat (immediate or otherwise) to the CPU, especially with the blatant disregard that's been shown thus far for the ceasefire I'm sure you'll understand as we move it to safety away from hostilities but also closer to the one place it would be beneficial to us (back to Crossbone Way).

There is one more wish on behalf of the CPU. As long as any PEACE base is in existence on Yardlong island, we like to see the Pact between the Hive and PEACE be reduced to a Treaty.

While I understand your... annoyance, with the Hive currently, CPU has shown itself to be less trustworthy currently, especially with the breaking of the ceasefire so recent. We simply hope that peace can once again be restored, and this time, more permanently.

There is currently talk of dropping from Pact to Treaty status with the Hive as they have also shown themselves to be untrustworthy, however, and while I cannot guarentee anything at the moment, please be advised we do not want to be a launching point for further war efforts, especially between our two, rather large and powerful neighbors.

I realize that the unfortunate destruction of your schooner does not do much to gain your trust at this time, but think of this:
We did not attack any further on any other PEACE unit this year, while we easily could have done so.

That is of little comfort as the only PEACE unit that would have helped us come out of our existance being threatened as much as it currently is was smited.

In the hope that the Hive will wisen up and answers positively at our communications with them, I conclude this message.

Geo Beta-2
Military Affairs Function and negotiator of the CPU

And it is our hope that Hive actions will no longer be misconstrued to be PEACE actions, yet PEACE will continue to do business with the faction that has proven itself to be the more trustworthy toward PEACE at the current level and can only hope compensation for the schooner and crawlers come sometime soon.

We also hope to see an end to the hostilities between Hive and the CPU but understand that Hive was the agressor.

While I again cannot speak for the entire body on this new point, I would suggest a similar tactic of the Hive as they did in helping PEACE gain the tentative ceasefire that is currently being jepordized by Hive actions being misconstrued also as PEACE actions.

FF

[FlameFlash]

If I missed anything important, just give me a yell and I'll send Geo an addendum.

[FlameFlash]

I also received the same message Herc already posted...

[FlameFlash]

And here's Geo's response:

Hello, captain FlameFlash

Your messages are well received, and will be posted in the CPU main forum.

If I may say so, your responses couldn't come more timely

I notify you or one of the other available captains at once when the content of your message is discussed and a proper response formulated.

This shouldn't take too long, depends a bit on how quick a quorom of the CPU council can be gathered.

Greetings
Geo Beta-2, adhoc Prime Function, Military Affairs Function and PEACE negotiator of the CPU.

[FlameFlash]

Proposed message to the Hive via Arnelos:

Dear Friends in the Hive:

It has come to our attention that PEACE has been viewed as a satelite faction of the Hive.

While logical, this has also jepordized PEACE's ability to effectively conduct the ceasefire negotiations as CPU feels we are simply subserviant to the Hive.

We have greatly appreciated all the support the Hive has granted us, but must stress that while we really wish to maintain our pact, we must remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes, and request kindly to not be a launch point against CPU otherwise.

This is simply to protect ourselves from further misunderstandings that PEACE are direct partners of the Hive.

Thank you, and we wish you luck in whatever you finally choose to do.

Cap'n Ceasefire Ambassador FlameFlash of PEACE

[foolish_icarus]

hmmm. Not sure about that last message. It's the cycon we have to convince, not the hive.

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
hmmm. Not sure about that last message. It's the cycon we have to convince, not the hive.

It is not always good to rely upon a single, more powerful, state as one's sole support; at least so says Machiavelli.

Can we really rely upon the Hive to put PEACE interests first? If the Cybernetic Consciousness is prepared to pay us enough so that we will receive back into our good graces the perhaps it is time that the Hive-PEACE relationship was reexamined?

I do not propose cooling off Hive-PEACE relations, but we must be aware that Hive is, ultimately, concerned with Hive objectives and these may not always be congruent with PEACE objectives. If the Consciousness wants to make a deal then our objective should be getting as much as we can out of them and restoring positive relations.

An aside: Is there any serious Drone-PEACE relationship? Should we pursue one?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
Proposed message to the Hive via Arnelos:

Quote:

...We have greatly appreciated all the support the Hive has granted us, but must stress that while we really wish to maintain our pact, we must remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes, and request kindly to not be a launch point against CPU otherwise.

I think it is more important to stress that "we must appear to remain neutral in the conflict, if it comes". That way the Human Hive should be persuaded that we are still somehow useful to them if their long-term plans do involve military action against the Cybernetic Consciousness. I am not sure we can discount the possibility that it does, especially since the Hive seems keen to irritate and provoke the Consciousness lately. It would not be good for PEACE if our sole purpose to the Hive was a chump blocker to be used as a pretext for war (unless some of my fellow pirates would prefer us to be this game's version of Poland?).

A possible situation would be to have both the Hive and the Consciousness bidding for our favour in order to use us as launching-point for a future offensive. Perhaps we could consider this as policy - it might seem a bit two-faced and shifty but we are pirates after all and it is not all rum and parrots

[FlameFlash]

While I like your line of thinking Trithemius, the pitting two factions against one another is what the CPU claims started the war in the first place, I still totally question that, but the last thing we want is to prove them correct.

What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius
It is not always good to rely upon a single, more powerful, state as one's sole support; at least so says Machiavelli.

No of course not. I don't trust the Hive and I don't trust Cycon. We are most definitely getting played--but we don't need to make a fuss about it at the moment--there is a time for being meek with one's allies.

We are needed neither by the Hive nor the Cycon except as perhaps a feel-good issue for the Hive. We have no military significance, and apparently, little diplomatic significance. Being a pawn will get us nowhere. We tried an alliance with the Cycon. It didn't work. We tried being treaty-bound trading parties with the Cycon--less than a success. Hell, they can't even maintain a truce for more than about, oh, zero turns!

My piece o' eight is on sticking with the Hive--be a bargaining chip for as long as necessary, then, with a not insignificant amount of luck, actually build ourselves into a faction again, to the point where we can play a rule in the balance of power.


On another note, I interpreted Buster's message in the turn tracking thread to mean the Drones declared war--is this correct?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
While I like your line of thinking Trithemius, the pitting two factions against one another is what the CPU claims started the war in the first place, I still totally question that, but the last thing we want is to prove them correct.

It seems to me that if [i]anyone[i] deliberatly started this recent problem, it was the Human Hive. How far can we really trust them, especially now their role in helping the Consciousness' attacks on PEACE has come to light?

What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

I think we need to, at least in the CPU's mind, divorce ourselves from the Hive, while still remaining as friendly as is possible with the Hive. We don't need to cause a war, we can just exploit the inevitable "Cold War" that will occur between two "super-power" factions.

Can we make some kind of agreement with the Drones, or are they "going it alone"?

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by FlameFlash
What I'm trying to do though, Foolish, is get talks open with the Hive as far as being privvy to their plans. Our survival seems to be tossed in with them and CPU and if we can't get those two to get along at this juncture we're probably screwed.

Gotcha

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius
It seems to me that if [i]anyone[i] deliberatly started this recent problem, it was the Human Hive. How far can we really trust them, especially now their role in helping the Consciousness' attacks on PEACE has come to light?

It was pretty much all Cycon, near as I can tell. We now know the Hive played an auxiliary role, but the Cycon had plans and would have gone ahead with them even if the Hive had stayed completely out of it.

I think we need to, at least in the CPU's mind, divorce ourselves from the Hive, while still remaining as friendly as is possible with the Hive. We don't need to cause a war, we can just exploit the inevitable "Cold War" that will occur between two "super-power" factions.

Possible, but the Cycon has said it would like to ally with the Hive. The Hive and Drones are going for cooperative victory (so they've said) and who is the most logical third partner, if there will be one? Not us I think we don't really want there to be a balance of power, because that means when it fails, we are the first target for the other powers to pick up resources and strength.

Can we make some kind of agreement with the Drones, or are they "going it alone"?

Dunno. They've been pretty isolationist--though as i've asked, that might have changed.

[FlameFlash]

To that end... suggestions on a better wording of a message to the Hive... especially with Buster's recent post in the turn tracking thread making me nervous, might be wise.

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus
No of course not. I don't trust the Hive and I don't trust Cycon. We are most definitely getting played--but we don't need to make a fuss about it at the moment--there is a time for being meek with one's allies.

I'm definately against making a fuss, I was just concerned that this aspect might not be being considered by PEACE policy-makers. Since we (I am told) operate on democratic principles I thought it best to get the issue "out there" so that, come voting-time, people are informed on the matter. No implications of incompetence or lack of vision were implied in any of the other captains. (Honest! )

We are needed neither by the Hive nor the Cycon except as perhaps a feel-good issue for the Hive. We have no military significance, and apparently, little diplomatic significance. Being a pawn will get us nowhere. We tried an alliance with the Cycon. It didn't work. We tried being treaty-bound trading parties with the Cycon--less than a success. Hell, they can't even maintain a truce for more than about, oh, zero turns!

Well, the Hive thinks we are important for something. Its possible that it is just charity, but I am suspicious. The Datalinks say "Never attribute to malice what can more easily be attributed to stupidity.", but I also don't think it is wise to assume that anyone is stupid, whether they are enemies or erstwhile allies.

I think we have to sell ourselves to anyone and everyone. That way we can get the aid flowing in and start rebuilding. We don't have much to offer now, but a few turns down the track we could be back in business and offering an ally tech or our naval expertise.

My piece o' eight is on sticking with the Hive--be a bargaining chip for as long as necessary, then, with a not insignificant amount of luck, actually build ourselves into a faction again, to the point where we can play a rule in the balance of power.

Certainly stick with the Hive, we need to get all we can from them and they may turn out to be the best (and only) friends PEACE has. However, I see no real harm in persuading CPU that we might be able to be bought. We can always fall back on "Well, the Hive have been more consistently helpful." if they claim we stiffed them (besides, from what I read in the PEACE Archives, they deserve a stiffing).

On another note, I interpreted Buster's message in the turn tracking thread to mean the Drones declared war--is this correct?

A really interesting development! Has anyone asked the Drone's INternational Industrial Relations Officer (or whatever their diplomatic person is called..) what the story is; or should I appoint myself Political Attache to the Free Drones?

[Trithemius]

Originally posted by foolish_icarus Possible, but the Cycon has said it would like to ally with the Hive. The Hive and Drones are going for cooperative victory (so they've said) and who is the most logical third partner, if there will be one? Not us I think we don't really want there to be a balance of power, because that means when it fails, we are the first target for the other powers to pick up resources and strength.

I get the impression that the Hive might not want to ally with the Consciousness; why else would they be provoking them now? I have tried to explain this to the Consciousness (via Impaler in IRC - as people might have read) but they seem optimistic about the Hive making friends.

Dunno. They've been pretty isolationist--though as i've asked, that might have changed.

Aw, you beat me to it.

[FlameFlash]

Actually, if you'd like to PM Buster for clarification on his post, and then post his response here that would be appreciated.

[foolish_icarus]

To that end... suggestions on a better wording of a message to the Hive... especially with Buster's recent post in the turn tracking thread making me nervous, might be wise.

I don't know...postpone it?

Since we (I am told) operate on democratic principles I thought it best to get the issue "out there" so that, come voting-time, people are informed on the matter. No implications of incompetence or lack of vision were implied in any of the other captains. (Honest! )

Of course. The more discussion the better.

I think we have to sell ourselves to anyone and everyone. That way we can get the aid flowing in and start rebuilding. We don't have much to offer now, but a few turns down the track we could be back in business and offering an ally tech or our naval expertise.

I agree in principle, except that we have no techs nor naval expertise.

However, I see no real harm in persuading CPU that we might be able to be bought. We can always fall back on "Well, the Hive have been more consistently helpful." if they claim we stiffed them (besides, from what I read in the PEACE Archives, they deserve a stiffing).

They deserve oh-so-more than a painful stiffing. But they are violent and erratic and will respond without warning with force if provoked in the slighest (or even nonexistent) way. "Justice" plays no part in their decisions. Perhaps more importantly, we need to discourage the cycon's idea that things can be "paid for" and "smoothed over". Without being provocative to them, we need to circulate the subconscious inclination to avoid force as a solution. They've gotten away with it this far, we should not encourage them.

or should I appoint myself Political Attache to the Free Drones?

Go for it.*


*Bear in mind that I have no authority whatsoever and this is not an offical endorsement or authorization of any sort. But we're pretty informal, you could probably get away with just doing it.

[foolish_icarus]

Originally posted by Trithemius

I get the impression that the Hive might not want to ally with the Consciousness; why else would they be provoking them now? I have tried to explain this to the Consciousness (via Impaler in IRC - as people might have read) but they seem optimistic about the Hive making friends.

I suspect they would join them in a heartbeat if they thought they could remain the dominant partner. Mind you, it wouldn't last, but I suspect that wouldn't stop them from trying. And poor PEACE gets left by the wayside...at best.

But enough gloomy sentiments! As you've said, we do have a real opportunity hear. Just three turns ago we thought it was all over (in addition to multiple times previous to that). Now what I really want to do (making no claims about its viability) is retire to our corner of the globe and build up. Let the others fight and wrangle while we wait--repairing in a sheltered cove, if you will, and sail when the time is right. We have a substantial blood debt to pay back.