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Old March 17, 2004, 15:35   #31
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tamerlin: The owners of this site do not allow links to the above site. Please edit your post, so this thread does not get deleted.
Sorry, didn't knew it was not an authorized link as this site is only offering freewares and abandonwares... BTW you should now edit your own post as it is displaying the link I have removed...
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Old March 17, 2004, 22:49   #32
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You can just refer it to headquarters of lesser canines, or something like that.
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Old March 18, 2004, 04:20   #33
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Here are a couple of great sites devoted to the 5 Star series of wargames:

http://pub131.ezboard.com/bjpspanzers

http://pub28.ezboard.com/bbuildersparadise
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Old March 18, 2004, 20:16   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger


I don't think performing multiple actions is a sign of a better unit. Performing advanced actions, on the other hand, is. It's just me, though
Would you rather attack once a round or four times? Its kinda important


Quote:
You can do that most of the time, just that with a bad leader, your unit is going to suck.
I regualrly had only one artillery commander and 3 artillery units, so two had to be commanded by leaders from the wrong force. Its just stupid.

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You don't think getting any equipment you wanted is ahistorial?
You got equipment after it was historically available if you could afford the massive prestige cost of them. If you've won campaings that were historically lost, why wouldn't you have more than the historical number of Tiger tanks? Yours didn't get destroyed and your factories didn't get as badly bombed
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Old March 20, 2004, 22:52   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by High_Flyer
Here are a couple of great sites devoted to the 5 Star series of wargames:

http://pub131.ezboard.com/bjpspanzers
yeah ive posted there.
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Old March 21, 2004, 01:04   #36
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Originally posted by Grumbold
Would you rather attack once a round or four times? Its kinda important
You can attack a number of times each turn, up to the limit of the unit type, in PG 3 (and 3D). Artillery can fire 3 times, for example.

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Originally posted by Grumbold
I regualrly had only one artillery commander and 3 artillery units, so two had to be commanded by leaders from the wrong force. Its just stupid.
Well, you can adjust your first and second choice of leaders. At least in PG 3. So I always pick artillery to be first choice and bombers second. I also never have more than 2 artillery units until the 2 commanders both achieve rank 10. When that happens it's almost near the end of the campaign anyway, so I would have at least one or two extra artillery commanders if I need them.

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You got equipment after it was historically available if you could afford the massive prestige cost of them.
There's no such thing as prestige cost in these two games. You have a chance of getting prototype and new equipment, and a chance of getting new leaders. Doing well means you get more promotions to use on your leaders.

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If you've won campaings that were historically lost, why wouldn't you have more than the historical number of Tiger tanks? Yours didn't get destroyed and your factories didn't get as badly bombed
Even if you play as Zhukov or Rommel, say, it seems that you are in fact controlling only a small number of units, not massive numbers of armies and corps
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Old March 22, 2004, 11:15   #37
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Thats why PG3d sucks compared to PG2. We're back where we started - you really ought to try it!
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Old March 23, 2004, 01:08   #38
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When I said small number I mean 20 or so units, unlike in real history where massive numbers of divisions were involved.

I don't think you get to command hundreds of units in PG 2.
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Old March 23, 2004, 08:53   #39
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Very interesting. I didn't realise the early PG games were still popular. I recently dusted off my PG2 and played the blitizkrieg campaign (for the nth time - it is a bit too easy once you know it well).

I prefer to be vaguely historical with my unit choices so I run 2 panzer divisions, each with 2 tanks, 2 stosstruppen, a towed artillery, a SP artillery, a SP air defence, a SP anti-tank and a recon unit (total 2 x 9). Also a paratroop division with 3 fallschirm, a towed artillery, a SP air defence and a recon (6). Add another tank, a pionere infantry and another SP anti-tank and that is my ground army. In the air I manage with 3 fighters, a couple of stukas and a fighter-bomber type. Total 33 units and I expect to have all but one fighter and the fighter bomber by the start of Dunkirk.

On my last play through I picked up 10 brilliant and 3 ordinary victories so this force structure does work. The fallschirm are crucial to get brilliant victories in some scenarios (Dunkirk, Novgorod) and are generally useful for seizing chokepoints and guarding victory objectives.

Tip: the SP air defence really only pay if you are brave enough to let the AI see a juicy target, like an artillery unit, with your AD unit one hex further back and out of their spotting range. If the weather holds you get 2 shots at an enemy fighter before your own fighters finish it off. This can be dangerous if the enemy has bombers available and should not be tried against US forces in the last 2 scenarios.
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Old March 23, 2004, 13:21   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
When I said small number I mean 20 or so units, unlike in real history where massive numbers of divisions were involved.

I don't think you get to command hundreds of units in PG 2.
You build up to about double that amount of core troops, plus whatever mission extras you get which varies widely. The invasion of Norway map has at least 15 non-core units, and that is an early mission.
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Old March 23, 2004, 17:43   #41
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You build up to about double that amount of core troops, plus whatever mission extras you get which varies widely. The invasion of Norway map has at least 15 non-core units, and that is an early mission.
Im confused. In pg2 i get a Lillehammer scenario, not a Norway scenario. And there are no non-core units in that scen.
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Old March 23, 2004, 17:54   #42
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Im confused. In pg2 i get a Lillehammer scenario, not a Norway scenario. And there are no non-core units in that scen.
He is, I think, referring to the invasion of Norway scenario in the original Panzer General. In the original set of games you get a lot of core and auxiliary units but there is a limit to how many core units you can have in any particular scenario.

In PG2 the Lillehammer scenario does not have any auxiliary units and the later scenarios very few if any. I would normally have about 18 units by that stage of a campaign, maybe a couple more if I have gained any prototype units.
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Old March 23, 2004, 23:25   #43
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You build up to about double that amount of core troops, plus whatever mission extras you get which varies widely. The invasion of Norway map has at least 15 non-core units, and that is an early mission.
You mean 40 core units plus 15 non-core?
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Old March 24, 2004, 11:35   #44
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it would help if people would mention in each post what version of PG they are referring to, as people have made statements about PG2 that seem to actually refer to original PG and not to PG2.
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Old March 24, 2004, 13:05   #45
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Well I thought it was PG2 but then I have replayed PG1 more recently. The two are very similar and both well worth playing. I wouldn't get Allied General, Pacific General or Star General confused with them, but one German scenario from another, tricky
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Old March 24, 2004, 13:13   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by Urban Ranger
You mean 40 core units plus 15 non-core?
I avoided saying that because I can't be certain exactly how many forces the largest battles were. The invasion UK scenarios could have a lot of non-core units depending on which one you activated. Again they were before the halfway point in the game, so your own core army would not be large.

I haven't got PG1&2 sitting around with a late-game save handy to fire up Kursk, Stalingrad, Invasion USA or one of the others to do an official count. I'm confident that there were scenarios with well over 40 units per side.
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Old March 24, 2004, 18:54   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumbold
Well I thought it was PG2 but then I have replayed PG1 more recently.
No problem. I've been known to discuss games Ive never played


Quote:
The two are very similar and both well worth playing. I wouldn't get Allied General, Pacific General or Star General confused with them, but one German scenario from another, tricky
There are of course allied campaigns in PG2 as well - one each for the Yank, Brits, and Soviets.
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Old March 24, 2004, 19:10   #48
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Wow! Looks like our favourite dawg has got PG3 SE. Time to check it out personally
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Old March 25, 2004, 06:01   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grumbold

I haven't got PG1&2 sitting around with a late-game save handy to fire up Kursk, Stalingrad, Invasion USA or one of the others to do an official count. I'm confident that there were scenarios with well over 40 units per side.
IIRC the last PG scenario (invading the USA) allows for 50 core units and gives a dozen or so additional naval and air units as well. Allied General generally has smaller numbers of units, although the final US/UK invasion of Germany has a lot of units (but only 24 core).

In PG2 Kishinev is probably the scenario with the most units as you get a lot of Rumanian infantry and artillery.

The British/American/Russian campaigns in PG2 suck. They are far too easy and 6 brilliant victories out is 6 is easily achievable in all of them. The last German campaign, Defending the Reich, is the hardest. I did get as far as brilliant victories in the first 4 scenarios but had to restart several times to do it.
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Old March 25, 2004, 07:21   #50
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I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?
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Old March 25, 2004, 08:41   #51
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Quote:
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I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?
For me it is partly the chance to try, however loosely, a historical battle and see how I get on, partly to play with the toys (units) and partly convenience. SP isn't anything like as good as a human opponent but it is there when you turn the computer on.
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Old March 25, 2004, 10:33   #52
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Like all SP games, they are there to entertain you for precisely as long as you want, whenever you want. Multiplayer games, even over the net, have to run to mutually convenient timescales and my lifestyle generally doesn't allow for that. I'd never manage to finish a game of Civ or PG against human opponents, yet these are the games I like best.

The PG series is a fairly good one for this. Its reasonably straightforward to get a standard victory in most scenarios but getting a decisive victory, maximising prestige and minimising casualties can be quite tricky.
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Old March 25, 2004, 11:06   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Doc
I have a question for the wargame fans here.

What's the attraction in SP wargaming? I often find that intricate TBS games are pants in SP even if they are great games, since the AI is always weak. Most wargames that I have seen are more intricate than a general TBS title, so surely this must be a factor?
well first, its fun just to see the maps, the historical units (this goes for playing scens with historic setups, not for later scens in a PG type campaign) etc. Some of us are the type who love looking at maps of historical battles, OOBs, etc. A wargame is a chance to move those units around and see what happens.


And of course there are many ways of handicapping the AI. 1. shoot for a higher or faster victory level 2. Give some advanage to the AI (this of course may be ahistorical - but if youre interested in it as a GAME, after having enjoyed a runthrough as a history sim, this can work) 3. Dont play so obsessively perfectly. Play fast, fun and sloppy. I dont really want to consult a spreadsheet before every move. Its not fun. This also makes things a tad more realistic, since real commanders made mistakes, had their orders garbled, etc. And of course did not have the advantage of playing against an AI.


Also my impression is that AI's tend to be a bit stronger in TB wargames than TBS's like Civ. There isnt as much to do - no diplomacy, no choices of unit builds (again a PG campaign is an exception) the AI is built around the combat model - so the AI can be tougher.

OTOH I havent really played enough to know, but id be interested in others comments.


You also seem to assume that wargame = TB. While thats true for the 5 Star General series, and the overwhelming majority of wargames, its not true for all. Certainly here at 'poly we should all be aware of Sid Meiers Gettysburg, an RT wargame with a very strong AI.
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Old March 25, 2004, 11:39   #54
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As LOTM suggested this as a general thread I decided to post up a report on my current try at the PG2 Blitzkrieg campaign. I am about to start Malta and the scenarios so far went like this.

Madrid - Requisition JU87B. Demolish Republican forces. Brilliant victory. Received a SiG 1B prototype - very useful.

Poland - Upgraded and requisitioned new units including Me109. Again went like clockwork, captured all locations and destroyed all but 1 Polish unit. Brilliant victory.

Suomussalmi - Added further units including AD. Northern attack problematic. Finnish unit nearly destroyed and my Pioniere badly damaged. Suomussalim went better, largely due to clear weather so I could use my air units. One Soviet infantry went walkabout and I had to use 3 Finnish units to pin it down. Unusually the Soviet armour and recon didn't try and cross the river to go south and west to steal the German supply hex. Surrounded the last objective. AI blew its prestige on a KV1 but could only position it on the small lake where a Stuka attack and repeated tank attacks destroyed it. Another brilliant victory.

Lillehammer - Added another AD and some paras. Rain to start. Dropped a para behind the artillery on the east side of the lake and broke through. On the west I used an air unit to spot the artillery, hit it with my own and waited. An AI infantry attacked my lead infantry and failed due to my artillery giving supporting fire. It then withdrew so I could move forward and take the first town. Dropped a para on the village in the NE and used another to block a Norwegian infantry moving in from the east. After that it was basically a pincer movement on Lillehammer with strong artillery support. Brilliant victory. Prototype 5cm PAK - used at Sedan then upgraded to Stug IIIB.

Sedan - Added a second Me109 and a second JU87B. Plan was one panzer division to drive west and then south and the other to take Sedan then drive south and west. A para drops to secure the town on the canal in the south and a recon unit mops up the flags in the middle of the map. All went according to plan. The objectives in the NW were not heavily defended and the French Char 1B in the SW never showed up. Brilliant victory. Lots of prestige so virtually at full strength going into...

Dunkirk - Northern group attacks NE then N to Dunkirk. Central group attacks N to take victory hexes in centre of map, then east. Drop a para behind the easternmost objective to take out the French artillery when the main assault eventually goes in. All went well in the centre and east of the map. One mistake though. South of Dunkirk is a victory hex occupied by a British recon unit. I failed to destroy it and it got pushed north onto the bridge. I destroyed it next turn but the delay was enough to prevent me taking Dunkirk in time for a brilliant victory so only an ordinary victory and no shot at Windsor 1940.

Pursuit to Tobruk - One group drives east across the desert, the other north. Time is too short to allow either to assist the other so each has to be strong enough to take its own objective. Resupply is crucial for artillery so best to get them onto rough terrain rather than sand. A recon unit takes the SW airfield and a para drop the SE one. All went OK apart from driving an infantry unit into a Brit MK IV light tank in the desert and having it reduced to half strength. Brilliant victory. Received a Sdkfz 7/1 as a prototype - useless as I have my full complement of 3 AD units, all with experience and there aren't enough deployment hexes in the next few scenarios to make any real use of it so I reassigned it and claimed the prestige points to use for something more useful.

Tobruk - Main force drives east straight at Tobruk. Succeeded after some hard fighting with air support. Second group goes SE to take Brit tanks and then objective. No problem. The Italians move south then try and sieze the airfield when the British tanks go off. Brilliant victory.

Now for Malta.
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Old March 26, 2004, 11:18   #55
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nice AAR


I havent used AD or Paras so far.
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Old March 26, 2004, 11:28   #56
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Quote:
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.

The British/American/Russian campaigns in PG2 suck. They are far too easy and 6 brilliant victories out is 6 is easily achievable in all of them. .
Oh?. I tried the brit campaign and had some difficulty with Salerno - but it was late, and i was sloppy handling the large numbers of units - and I havent gone past Sedan and therm, in the Blitz campaign, so im not familiar with a lot of the units. And generally still getting familiar with the game. Sounds like the allied campaigns will have less replayability than the German campaigns, though.
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Old March 26, 2004, 11:45   #57
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The German campaigns are definitely the major focus in PG2. To a certain extent I think that is preferable to producing 4 mediocre campaigns. I was entirely satisfied with the game just from the German one.

I've just started scenario 3 in the shorter Russian campaign in 3SE. The game is definitely more manageable with leaders not hogging up extra force pool slots as they rise in rank.
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Old March 26, 2004, 11:50   #58
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Try Steve Brown's British Western Desert and Italy campaign. It is available here. Much better than default PG2 campaigns. His Russian campaign ("General Bistrov breaktrough Corps") is also very good.

It takes a bit of time to install them, but they are well worth it.
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Old March 26, 2004, 13:07   #59
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BTW, IM currently playing Sedan.
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Old March 26, 2004, 13:09   #60
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Quote:
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Try Steve Brown's British Western Desert and Italy campaign. It is available here. Much better than default PG2 campaigns. His Russian campaign ("General Bistrov breaktrough Corps") is also very good.

It takes a bit of time to install them, but they are well worth it.
Brown posts on the EZboard mentioned upthread. He sent me the patch for PG2.

I dont usually DL user campaigns till ive gone through the original ones at least once.
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