All purpose Panzer General thread

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Well, having done great playing the American campaign at 125% prestige, i figured I was ready to play fair, and went for Soviet campaign at 100%. Did ok with Saturn, but then ran unprepared into rather hard Prokhrovka (Kursk) scen. Even tried playing Saturn over again to be better prepared, no luck.

So Im taking baby steps, playing the Blitz campaign at 125%. Its a good bit harder now.

I would seriously advise you to stick at 100% prestige and persevere at learning how to maximise the prestige you get, use as little as possible and avoid damage. Otherwise there is a temptation to get sloppy about how you use it and you will struggle in harder campaigns.

Do you use recon units? Knowing where the enemy units, particularly artillery and AD, are is crucial to keep the damage to your units down.

If a unit gets light damage of 1 or 2 points then put off reinforcing it if you can. If it takes heavy damage, particularly expensive units like aircraft, artillery or engineers, then consider if you can complete the scenario without building it back up again. Everything goes up to 10 strength for free between scenarios so don't take reinforcements during a scenario unless necessary.

In the Blitz campaign you should be taking virtually every flag on the map and destroying as many enemy units as possible to get the maximum prestige during a scenario.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by CerberusIV


I would seriously advise you to stick at 100% prestige and persevere at learning how to maximise the prestige you get, use as little as possible and avoid damage. Otherwise there is a temptation to get sloppy about how you use it and you will struggle in harder campaigns.

Do you use recon units? Knowing where the enemy units, particularly artillery and AD, are is crucial to keep the damage to your units down.

I use the one im given, but dont usually build more. Probably should.

If a unit gets light damage of 1 or 2 points then put off reinforcing it if you can.

yeah, ive gotten better about doing this.

If it takes heavy damage, particularly expensive units like aircraft, artillery or engineers, then consider if you can complete the scenario without building it back up again. Everything goes up to 10 strength for free between scenarios so don't take reinforcements during a scenario unless necessary.

yeah ive been doing this, although its frustrating to have an expensive aircraft unit just sitting around the airfield

In the Blitz campaign you should be taking virtually every flag on the map and destroying as many enemy units as possible to get the maximum prestige during a scenario.

OK.

My Madrid scen got a little sloppy, so i suppose i'll just go back and try again at 100 prestige.

[Main_Brain]

Ah thank you very much :=)
Had to remove write protection and now it works, i even found some old savegame of the China Champaign

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Main_Brain
Ah thank you very much :=)
Had to remove write protection and now it works...

Oooops, I forgot to mention you had to.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I use the one im given, but dont usually build more. Probably should.

For Blitz I upgrade the starting Ps222 to a Ps231 for Poland, buy another for Suomussalmi and a third one at Sedan. Recon are very useful for finishing off damaged units and can save you having to allocate a main unit to the job. Also for infiltrating to finish off damaged enemy artillery. At Sedan, Dunkirk, Kishinev and Volokolamsk they are very useful for grabbing undefended flags. Each small flag is 25 prestige at 100% - the amount you can grab at Sedan is enough to buy several units!

yeah ive been doing this, although its frustrating to have an expensive aircraft unit just sitting around the airfield

Even at strength 5 or 6 they can be used carefully against enemy ground units with no air attack and where your recon shows there are no AD units. Even if they do no damage they still reduce entrenchment levels. It is essential to have destroyed all the enemy fighters first though. The PG2 AI doesn't seem to buy air units and only gets air reinforcements at Windsor and Savannah in the Blitz campaign.

[CerberusIV]

...Caen - I found out why all that prestige. This was harder than I expected as the AI has a lot of armour. I actually made such a mess of the first 3 turns that I had to restart.

In the west any attempt to move forwards exposes your artillery and the 10.5's keep damaging your infantry but if they aren't given reinforcements they are slowly weakened to the point a tank can destroy them.

At Caen and in the east I went for attrition. Started by taking out the German artillery with my own and my tac bombers. This scenario really requires the one thing the British don't have - really powerful tac bombers. An A26 would have made so much difference . At Caen I settled for artillery and airstrikes against the infantry on the victory hex and then destroyed it with engineers. I didn't occupy the hex though. So the AI fed another infantry unit in to be destroyed the same way. I was slowly wearing down the armour by picking off the strength 5 units and then the PzIV's but it took airstrikes, artillery and tanks to do it. I was only able to take the strength 10 Panther when the AI ran out of infantry and moved it into Caen where repeated infantry attacks killed it.

The chance of a BV slipped by. The Me109K was a problem and one of my Spitfires got beaten up before the other shot the Messerschmidt down. I was pressing to take the German supply hex at Vimont and the AI pulled the trick I hate. I had moved my artillery close enough to hit the flak south of the town but didn't have units in place to form a solid screen. So the AI teleported in a King Tiger and nearly took out a 7.2" gun . With no experience it was surprisingly easy prey for my Sherman Fireflies next turn.

I actually used one of the paratroops supplied to drop onto the German airfield. Assisted by a recon unit that was enough to drive off the German recon occupying the hex and secure the airfield.

Eventually the AI ran out of units in the east and I was able to switch to the west and concentrate my artillery and airpower to overrun the last enemy units. A victory.

Going into Arracourt I had about 1800 prestige. Enough for another Spitfire, a couple of Achilles tank destroyers and another AEC III recon. Played the first turn and it looks worryingly easy.......

[BeBro]

A word to the recon units: In Peoples General, which has a similar but not identical engine to PG2 those recon units do not only reveal enemy units, they also "hide" friendly units nearby (but not the recon unit itself). I'm not sure, but IIRC it is the same in PG2, so recon units are a must IMO. You can set up good ambushes buy moving forward a recon vehicle, then positioning strong units (tanks, anti tank guns, TDs) in front of it. The AI can spot the recon unit, but not neccessarily the surrounding units, and so it will run into an ambsuh when trying to attack the recon unit directly (without making own efforts to scan the area before).

[Leonidas]

Just wanted to mention that Battlefront has released details about a new upcoming stratgeic wargame.

It will only be available through on-line sales, so people won't be able to buy it in stores, which is quite odd.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Leonidas
Just wanted to mention that Battlefront has released details about a new upcoming stratgeic wargame set in Europe called Strategic Command 2 BlitzKrieg. It's due out at the end of this year.

This is an excellent news though I would have preferred a "Rising Sun" theater of operation first. Especially if the two games could be combined into a global WW2 simulation.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


This is an excellent news though I would have preferred a "Rising Sun" theater of operation first. Especially if the two games could be combined into a global WW2 simulation.

It will be fully customizable. You can create new maps, so a Pacific War scenario would be very possible.

It will come with several editors, including an event editor (which is a first for a wargame).

It will have an isometric view, similar to CivII, so CivII scenario designers will be right at home. . .

Cheers!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Leonidas


It will be fully customizable. You can create new maps, so a Pacific War scenario would be very possible.

It will come with several editors, including an event editor (which is a first for a wargame).

It will have an isometric view, similar to CivII, so CivII scenario designers will be right at home. . .

Cheers!

Sounds very interesting.

It's great to see that some companies are keeping the flame of the TBS games alive when the RTS and first person shooters are heavily dominating the market.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Leonidas


It will be fully customizable. You can create new maps, so a Pacific War scenario would be very possible.

It will come with several editors, including an event editor (which is a first for a wargame).

It will have an isometric view, similar to CivII, so CivII scenario designers will be right at home. . .

Cheers!

I thought TOAW had an event editor ????

In any case this is great news, a new wargame emphasizing modability - the model for the last few years has been the Tiller one of pay full price for a scenario, no editor, etc. TOAW, was, IIUC, the last successful toolkit game.
And of course that was able to get retail shelfspace.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Sounds very interesting.

It's great to see that some companies are keeping the flame of the TBS games alive when the RTS and first person shooters are heavily dominating the market.

Battlefront is the publisher of the award winning Combat Mission series, which IIUC is turn based using simultaneous turns.

[lord of the mark]

Ok, i took your advice and restarted blitz at 100%.

Won Madrid, but barely missed a BV. Also used some prestige for replacements.

Going into Poland, ive got just under 1500 prestige points. Ive got all my original Madrid core units, plus another armor unit and a bomber I bought. Unfortunately only a couple of my units have experience, and none have leaders - in the course of winning the scen, and getting as many vict hexes etc i didnt always focus on letting my core units kill the defender.

My inclination here would be to upgrade the two experienced reg inf to pioneers or engineers, to upgrade all the tank units, and to buy a fighter.

Based on your above post, i think i should upgrade the recon unit. Im also tempted to get a bridge unit - probably by upgrade, since i dont think i need more infantry (i'll have three, plus all the aux infantry, in relatively open country) I dont usually overstrength, but many folks do - should I here, and if so which units?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Battlefront is the publisher of the award winning Combat Mission series, which IIUC is turn based using simultaneous turns.

I know, I already have the two firsts and I will soon buy the latest about the Desert War...

More generally I was thanking companies like Shrapnel Games, Matrix Games, Battlefront and 2by3...

[Garth Vader]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
My inclination here would be to upgrade the two experienced reg inf to pioneers or engineers, to upgrade all the tank units, and to buy a fighter.

You will want a fighter because the poles have some planes.

I'd pick up another arty and possibly upgrade the one you have now(I don't remember what you start with).

I wouldn't overstrength yet, except to use up left over prestige. In the early going I focus on getting units because you want as many units to get experience as you can.

[CerberusIV]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Going into Poland, ive got just under 1500 prestige points. Ive got all my original Madrid core units, plus another armor unit and a bomber I bought. Unfortunately only a couple of my units have experience, and none have leaders - in the course of winning the scen, and getting as many vict hexes etc i didnt always focus on letting my core units kill the defender.

I might usually have a bit more prestige from a BV but not much. I would not overstrength at this stage as I think getting more units is more important.

I would have the units from Madrid plus a JU87B I bought there. I would add a PzIIIE and a Me109E and spend the rest on upgrades. Upgrade the recon to a Ps231, upgrade the PzII to a PzIIIE and give the 3 infantry and the artillery half tracks. If you can afford to upgrade the artillery to a fH18 then do so, similarly the regular infantry to stosstruppen but those aren't essential yet.

(use the heaviest artillery available. regular infantry have a low attack against tanks so do need to be upgraded ASAP - whether to stosstruppen or pioneers. I never bother with bridging infantry, IIRC they don't get a bonus like pioneers when attacking entrenched units)

Put the regular infantry near the river and the rest of your core units on the other patch of deployment hexes. Drive them south to secure the airfield then east to the VH on that side of the map, then southwest to the final VH. The auxiliary infantry mop up the central VH and any undamaged units and artillery press on southeast to the final VH. Damaged infantry occupy the minor villages. In the north your cavalry occupy the first village and skirt the second to destroy 2 artillery units south of it then attack the village with support from your core artillery. Air units make themselves useful. The Poles have no fighters and only 1 TB. When it shows up hit it with your fighter. If it isn't destroyed then pin it between your fighter and your Stuka (which it can't attack) so your fighter can finish it off next turn.

This should bring you a victory fairly easily - I normally manage a BV with a turn or 2 to spare.

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I thought TOAW had an event editor ????

In any case this is great news, a new wargame emphasizing modability - the model for the last few years has been the Tiller one of pay full price for a scenario, no editor, etc. TOAW, was, IIUC, the last successful toolkit game.
And of course that was able to get retail shelfspace.

Yes, you're right TOAW does have an event editor.

Cheers!

[Leonidas]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Ok, i took your advice and restarted blitz at 100%.

Won Madrid, but barely missed a BV. Also used some prestige for replacements.

Going into Poland, ive got just under 1500 prestige points. Ive got all my original Madrid core units, plus another armor unit and a bomber I bought. Unfortunately only a couple of my units have experience, and none have leaders - in the course of winning the scen, and getting as many vict hexes etc i didnt always focus on letting my core units kill the defender.

My inclination here would be to upgrade the two experienced reg inf to pioneers or engineers, to upgrade all the tank units, and to buy a fighter.

Based on your above post, i think i should upgrade the recon unit. Im also tempted to get a bridge unit - probably by upgrade, since i dont think i need more infantry (i'll have three, plus all the aux infantry, in relatively open country) I dont usually overstrength, but many folks do - should I here, and if so which units?

And later, for a real challenge, play PG2 with a high-priced Equipment File. It will include not only new icons but also higher prices for the better equipment, which means devising new tactics to win scenarios.

[CerberusIV]

...and easy was how Arracourt turned out. Commandos backed by artillery and tac bombers with a bit of long range fire from tanks took Nancy easily. I now have two battlegroups each consisting of 2 Fireflys, 2 Commandos, an Achilles AT, a SP artillery and an AEC III recon. Also an extra tank, a 7.2" gun and an Engineer to boost either if required. One battlegroup simply rolled over the northern German group. The main strength of the Germans was the 2 Panthers which they parked on VH's in the middle of the map. One succumbed to a Tempest and then long range fire from 2 tanks. Both Fireflys lost a couple of points but the Panther disappeared in a puff of smoke. The other went down to attack by a Commando followed by long range fire from a Firefly. A Commando had already snatched the airfield in the centre and the Hetzer in the south charged across to attack but ran into a Firefly just north of the bridge over the river. Surprise! The Me109's were less trouble than I thought. They did not attack my Tempest tac bombers (good air to air if attacked was one of the main reasons for choosing them) and I was able to pile 3 Spitfires on the first Me109, repair the best Spit and repeat on the other Me109's in turn.

Plenty of recon (I had 4 units but have since reassigned one) meant I had a good idea of what my units were going up against. The recons also destroyed a couple of German 10.5's that would have otherwise been troublesome. I had also been fortunate in that 3 of my tanks and a tac bomber had all gained leaders at Caen to go with the tank that starts with a leader. That's 3 BV's out of 4, this time with a turn to spare.

2700 prestige for Metz. I upgraded all 3 Spitfires to Mark XIV's and bought another 7.2" gun and a 40mm SP AD unit to look after it.

Set up for Metz. My, what a lot of fortifications!.....

[pg]

well, over strength units certainly make PG1 much easier. i don't have many over strength land units though except for a one infantry, few tanks, and 2 artillery. i do have hoards of over strength planes some as high as 14(with a few almost to 15). i'm currently attacking russia via the south caucasus route. what is the best route to take from here to still win yet get many interesting battles?

i'm now going to try and get all the other 5 star games since PG1 is so good. i have to admit i wasn't interested in wargaming until now. what are some other good war games(especially ones similar to 5 star games)?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by pg
i'm now going to try and get all the other 5 star games since PG1 is so good. i have to admit i wasn't interested in wargaming until now. what are some other good war games(especially ones similar to 5 star games)?

Beware, Pacific General doesn't run under WinXP.

About good wargames, the problem is that it all boils down to preferences, few wargames are as simple and yet interesting as the 5 star serie games.

- Strategic Command (Battlefront) is the heir of the 5 star serie at a grand strategic level and certainly one of the greatest wargames around.

- Steel Panthers: World at War (matrix games). Tactical wargame at its best, though the learning curve is a bit steeper than the learning curve of its predecessors, (Steel Panthers 1, 2 & 3) which are good games of their own though a bit old (they are DOS games so you will need a software like VDMSound to emulate DOS under WinXP or Win2K). The best news about SP: WAW is that it is NOT a DOS game and that it is free.

- Combat Mission (Battlefront): the next step in tactical wargaming and the most innovative gaming engine around. Simultaneous combat resolution, great 3D graphics and an amazing gameplay. Battlefront has released a few weeks ago the third game in the serie.

- Close Combat (Micro$oft): the only RTS game serie that IMO deserves the name wargame. Though the first opus can largely be ignored, those that followed are really good (especially the second which takes place during the Market Garden operation). Each scenario in this tactical game puts you in command of a few squads (there are few units which is good for a RTS game) whose mission is clearly defined. Where CC shines is that each game is short, no more than an hour and a half and sometimes less whereas the other wargames usually take a whole afternoon (if not more).

- Western Front, Eastern Front and Divided Ground (Talonsoft): another serie of games that are rather simple and yet interesting. The interface and the graphics are a bit weird and I know some friends that have not crossed the border. Divided ground, war in the middle-east is my preferred one.

- The Operational Art of War 1 & 2 are considered as the gems of the operational level wargame. I have both of the games but have not yet tested them (I will, I know it) as they are rumored to be very difficult to learn.

- HPS is releasing some operational level games that are considered as good by the PC wargaming community. They seem rather difficult to learn and the gaming engine is said to be cumbersome as there are too many units (reports from friends). "The French and Indian War" is said to be the best because there are fewer units and because the battles are particularly interesting. This is certainly the first and only game of the serie I will test though the game about Market Garden is said to be very good (fewer units once again).

- If you like Science fiction you can give a shot at Massive Assault though it is rather a cross between a wargame and a conquest game.

Beware, most of the wargames are far more difficult to learn than PG1 or the other 5 star serie games and the learning curve is often steep.

[Dry]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
- Close Combat (Micro$oft): the only RTS game serie that IMO deserves the name wargame.

Have you tried the Great Naval Battle serie?
I haven't played Close Combat, and for me the Great Naval Battle IV (the one I played) was the only RTS game that deserved the name.
It is *real* real-time (1 sec = 1 sec) and strategical. You are admiral of a fleet, giving general orders and not a sergent-clicker telling everyone were to go exactly.
Only drawback - but a very big one - is a bug that almost forbids you to play scenarios with more than 2 aircraft carriers on your side.

- Western Front, Eastern Front and Divided Ground (Talonsoft): another serie of games that are rather simple and yet interesting. The interface and the graphics are a bit weird and I know some friends that have not crossed the border. Divided ground, war in the middle-east is my preferred one.

Oooo. I played that one - Eastern Front.
Interresting at start, looks like a dream for former ADSL wargamer.
But then you learn fast that AI here means Accurate Idiocy and once you understand how it works (artillery f.i.), the game loses at lot of it's fun.
The final challenge is to find out how to kill those bloody 12-18 T-34/KV stacked in the same objective hex, when you have only PzIIId. After that, you may uninstall it and go back to Panzer General.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Dry
Have you tried the Great Naval Battle serie?
I haven't played Close Combat, and for me the Great Naval Battle IV (the one I played) was the only RTS game that deserved the name.
It is *real* real-time (1 sec = 1 sec) and strategical. You are admiral of a fleet, giving general orders and not a sergent-clicker telling everyone were to go exactly.
Only drawback - but a very big one - is a bug that almost forbids you to play scenarios with more than 2 aircraft carriers on your side.

No, I never tried the GNB serie but it seems I should... even if it is a RTS.

Oooo. I played that one - Eastern Front.
Interresting at start, looks like a dream for former ADSL wargamer.
But then you learn fast that AI here means Accurate Idiocy and once you understand how it works (artillery f.i.), the game loses at lot of it's fun.
The final challenge is to find out how to kill those bloody 12-18 T-34/KV stacked in the same objective hex, when you have only PzIIId. After that, you may uninstall it and go back to Panzer General.

I have not played this game enough but this is not the case with Divided Ground, though the AIs have really improved since this game was released.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by pg
?

i'm now going to try and get all the other 5 star games since PG1 is so good. i have to admit i wasn't interested in wargaming until now. what are some other good war games(especially ones similar to 5 star games)?

We've assimilated another one!!! Resistance is futile!!!

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


B- Close Combat (Micro$oft): the only RTS game serie that IMO deserves the name wargame.

Have you played Sid Meier's Gettysburg, or its succesors (Sid Meier's Antietam, Waterloo- Naps Last Battle, Austerlitz - the latter two by Breakaway games)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


- Western Front, Eastern Front and Divided Ground (Talonsoft): another serie of games that are rather simple and yet interesting. The interface and the graphics are a bit weird and I know some friends that have not crossed the border. Divided ground, war in the middle-east is my preferred one.

-

I own Divided Ground, but it wont run on my PC, despite fitting the Specs, some bug or other. I could try playing with drivers, etc but Im not inclined to, I'll just hold onto it till i have a new PC. I had bought Rising Sun, and had the same problem and returned it (back when EB took returns for credit) so it seems this is a problem with the whole series.

[Grumbold]

East Front/West Front won't run on my new machine but I had some fun with them in the past. Dealing with the deadly enemy armour was definitely a challenge but if I remember correctly careful planning and smoke shells could get you into position to do a major close assault.

Alternatively their text file save structure would allow you to tweak the OOBs to get the PzIII(N) or Tiger I issued to your command a little early

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
I own Divided Ground, but it wont run on my PC, despite fitting the Specs, some bug or other. I could try playing with drivers, etc but Im not inclined to, I'll just hold onto it till i have a new PC. I had bought Rising Sun, and had the same problem and returned it (back when EB took returns for credit) so it seems this is a problem with the whole series.

Western front did not run on my PC (WinXP) until I patched it with the latest patch, may be is it a similar issue.

If not you can try the Windows Compatibility Tool and try either Win98 or Win2K compatibility mode.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by lord of the mark

Have you played Sid Meier's Gettysburg, or its succesors (Sid Meier's Antietam, Waterloo- Naps Last Battle, Austerlitz - the latter two by Breakaway games)

No, I have not. I have read that they are good games but I tend to get wary as soon as I read the words Real Time on the back of a box.